It's the first food truck vs. restaurant rivalry in downtown Detroit

[downtownguy]

Still, for a business owner in a market with a very limited customer base, its pretty easy to see how the whole situation could seem infuriatingly unfair.

EastsideAl, thanks for a very well-balanced assessment of the situation. I pretty much agree with everything you said, except what I've quoted. Downtown has in fact seen an influx of several thousand workers in the last couple of years. What has Checker done to attract these hungry mouths? I have heard from other, long established downtown restaurants, that their business is up due to the new workers. What kind of golden goose is Checker looking for?

That said, I'm going to put my mouth where my money isn't. In yesterday's first post in the old Legal Food Truck thread on this development, they included a link to Neal Rubin's article in the Detroit News yesterday. In it, Rubin reported that the Checker is competing by offering a $2.99 meatball sandwich. I went to Dago Joe's website and they have nothing on the menu for under $5. At lunch, I tend to eat lighter and usually stay within a $3-4 range. As I was just pondering what to have for dinner, I thought I might check this $2.99 sandwich out. I called over there and, yep, they are serving it all day long.

I will continue to defend the right of food trucks to co-exist alongside brick and mortar restaurants, but it's not likely I'll find anything appealing at the JoeMobile for my lunch taste or budget. But, if the Checker's $2.99 special is good and they keep it, I'll probably go back soon for another one at lunchtime. And if they find a better way to promote and compete without whining to the media, I may just become a regular customer.

[SteveJ]

A 6 inch sub at subway doesn't even cost $3-4.

[Wesley Mouch]

I think the issue is not whether the girls at Checker are fighting a new restaurant, it is because the Dago Joes isn't paying property taxes to rent the parking space. Hence the Checker is behind the 8-ball price wise because they have to factor in a ton of city taxes that aren't paid by the Dago Joe's guy from Clinton Township.

However, I don't think the Checker folks have not effectively articulated their case; the result is that they have come off looking a tad provincial.

Can someone enlighten us on the permit fees [[read: taxes) paid by trucks to the City? In one municipality where my family lives, there are food trucks. And they are all complaining about the $7,000 annual fee they pay to the city. Do we know if Detroit charges a fee?

Unrelated... to those who complain about 'poaching' customers. Unless they're blocking the doors, I don't see how you can make that argument. Its just competition. Learn to live with it. And adapt. They should be able to park ANYWHERE whatsoever that is legal. No one should be exempt from competition. Too often, there are rules like 'you can't be by the train station, or ballpark, or...' designed to protect political friends. A fair compromise might be to require some movement each day. Say at least 100 feet each day, with no returns within that 100' or 500' or whatever for 3 or 30 days.

[Meddle]

Detroit needs *more* businesses. More places to eat, more bars, more stores, more everything. If that means food trucks, so be it.

Fine, but they don't need to be on top of each other.

I think the food truck should set up shop next to the Hardrock Cafe or Hockeytown Cafe. It shouldn't be hard to compete with the over-priced garbage they serve at the those places.

Thar ya' go!

[downtownguy]

As I was just pondering what to have for dinner, I thought I might check this $2.99 sandwich out.

Well, I'm stuffed! Six good-sized meatballs, lots of sauce and a big thick roll. I picked up a bag of chips, too [[gourmet style, only a buck), because sight-unseen I didn't think a $2.99 sandwich would fill me up for dinner. But it did, and more. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear on the menu, so it's days may be numbered only as long as they're trying to stick it to the food truck. My advice would be, do them both, but maybe Checker first. Show them some Detroit love and maybe they'll be willing to adapt and promote their business a little more.

@poobert. Not every bar is a sports bar [[thank God!), and any old-time real sports bar worth its salt wouldn't serve vegetarian. That said, the menu I picked up tonight has several chicken and turkey options, a side called O'Brien Potatoes that sounds like it could even be a meal, a Vegetarian Pita Sandwich and a Classic Grilled Cheese, in addition to a couple of salads. And, I wonder, did it ever occur to you to ask to change the channel?

@SteveJ. Yeah, it did have a certain kitchiness, but that's not always bad. I was guessing the decor was from the 70s or maybe even the 60s, though. Does anybody know when they moved to that location?

[downtownguy]

Incidentally, as has been pointed out, Checker does not have a website, but they do have a Facebook page and it has their menu: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Checke...t/313019739105

Dago Joe's menu is here: http://www.dagojoes.com/ And, frankly, they don't have much of a selection -- not compared to the Checker.

So, I will say it one more time. I think food trucks contribute to the vitality of a city, create extra foot traffic, offer additional food choices and generate more commerce in the city. On paper -- and with this humongous meatball sandwich in my stomach -- I say the Checker has them beat on paper, on prices, on choices and possibly even with food [[which I can't say for sure until I try out Dago Joe's). But I'm just one person. Let the marketplace decide, and I bet, with good management they can each thrive side-by-side.

[EastsideAl]

Does anybody know when they moved to that location?

They moved there when the Monroe block buildings were emptied by the city around the end of the '70s. There was an Elias Bros. Big Boy in that Cadillac Sq. building before that.

[Gannon]

I like the sisters. Like the old-school ambience, and quirky charm hiding in a few corners there. I LOVE Michigan Craft-brewed beers...but will return to my lifetime favorite of Guinness Stout when necessary. So, since they hadn't yet decided to support the local brewers that is one serious mark against them. [[I say it this way giving them slack to have made better decisions since my last visit!)

I've taken to judging bars by their price and choice of the Guinness offerings...if no tap, cans are best, with a top price of $5 so I can skip out for $6 max with a decent tip. I cannot remember now where they were on price, but I'd bet they used the old-style non-widgeted Guinness bottles...and I hate drinking from those dinky 8- or 12-ounce glasses. Need a decent pint glass...to stop my Irish half from whining. Ahem.


That said, if your date loves wine...this is a decent place to start the evening. The sisters DO know their wine, and will gladly discuss their dreams of moving to European wine country when they finally retire [[if I guessed the region this early, I know I'd be wrong...but in a pinch I'd bet on Tuscany). I sure hope they can still meet that goal.


Back when Jams left the Beaubien Street Saloon a number of years ago, we spent a bit of time in there. Threw out a few positive suggestions and vaguely remember them all being shot down...the sisters seemed designed to say no, to shut out novelty in favor of how it has always been done. I recognize that management stance, too conservative for me. I looked around, noticed their customers were all regulars...and a high percentage were newsies, not unlike the Anchor.

Come to think of it, I'd bet that is how this story gestated...one of their old regulars heard the complaints and decided to do a story on it. I'm sure there are a few newshawks who were just waiting for a fight to brew so they could have something to write about. Surely there is not enough negative news in the city.


Last time there was after one of the anti-Kwhyme demonstrations...Gnome's Just Go jersey jumps to mind. That area is one of the dead spots downtown...heck, between Checker and that Grenwich Meridian joint a block away, they both seem stuck in a time warp.


I sincerely hope the sisters continue adapting to the new reality in the city. They CAN draw people their way, and Dajo Joe's just might be the fresh new sparkly thing that helps. They should embrace him instead of shunning him.


Cheers!

[JBMcB]

I like the sisters. Like the old-school ambience, and quirky charm hiding in a few corners there. I LOVE Michigan Craft-brewed beers...but will return to my lifetime favorite of Guinness Stout when necessary.

If you haven't already, head over to Dragonmead and try the Crusader Dark mild. Guinness Stout was my favorite beer until I had a sip of Crusader. Now Guinness is what I drink if Crusader isn't available.

[downtownguy]

A 6 inch sub at subway doesn't even cost $3-4.

No, but I'll get the $6 footlong with a bag of chips, and that's usually good for 2 days for me.

If you don't mind fast food, I can find something in my range. If you look for them, you can find many places downtown to eat for $4. Al's Paradise Cafe on Grand River is one of my favorites. They run 2 or 3 specials everyday under $4 and often include a side of fries with it. One of my favorites is their small hummus for $2. With the two slices of pita they give, it's enough for lunch. If I want to splurge, I get the Chicken Shawarma at the Bucharest Grill in the Park Bar for $4.25. I'm sure there's lots more I'm not aware of. Maybe this warrants a thread of its own.

[beanietek]

the checker bar is what it is.....
those ladies work hard to keep the doors open in good times and bad - they go out of their way to make customers feel welcome and i for one will continue to support them. they own a business in the city and they also live in the city - which is more than can be said for the "meals on wheels" trucks that roll back to the burbs at 3 pm

[downtownguy]

After the $2.99 meatball sandwich from Checker last night, I'm surprised I had an appetite for lunch. But, in the interest of a fair comparison, I trekked out to the JoeMobile today. First, I checked in at their website. Their latest tweet from 5 days ago promoted a $3.49 Vermicelli with garlic bread special. Good, I thought, they'll probably have an under $4 special today, too. When I got there, the Vermicelli was still the special, although it was now $3.99. No biggie. In just a matter of minutes, my order was ready. I took it back to my desk and it's a good thing. There was no set-up in the bag. Had I decided to walk over to Campus Martius, it would have been a sloppy meal eating that vermicelli with my hands. As for the food, the vermicelli probably should have cooked a minute or two longer. I chose the Racy Olive Sauce. It did have a distinctive taste of olives, but I wouldn't say it lived up to the hype on the menu. The bread was ok, but not inspiring. Their Meatball Sandwich Combo is $7.99. If I were inclined to spend and eat that much at lunch, I would rather get a Checker Burger with fries and cole slaw for $7. When it comes to marketing, Dago Joe's has Karen and Kathleen beat by a mile. If I got a daily tweet or facebook feed telling me what's the daily special at Checker, I know I'd go back a lot more. Gannon, I agree that they should embrace the food truck and use the extra street traffic to their advantage. Maybe it's time you and Jams paid the sisters another visit. They might be listening this time.

[Gannon]

Get someone to don a sandwich board saying "Welcome to the Neighborhood", giving each of his customers a 'free' bottle of water with proof of purchase [[from a case purchased at CostCo). With it comes a 'coupon' for a special discount off lunch...including a link to their menu on-line. Total cost would be minimal. Effect, maximum. If lucky, he relocates, which is what they wanted in the first place. Hopefully, of the 24 people gifted with a decent bottle of cheap water per day, they catch a few regulars.

Nothing illegal about giving away a limited number of water bottles to qualified individuals, especially from the sidewalk in front of your business! During the same time, said-sandwich-donner would be passing out real menus and other offers to anyone and everyone passing by.

And I always believe an early opening time, to supply the caffeine addicts and take delivery orders for lunchtime, is the best way to create a habit-flow of happy people. Most bar and restaurants are staffed early for prep...and the coffee machine gets turned on first. Might as well make some money off it.


Cheers! I'll see if I can track down Jams...

[rb336]

Isn't the idea of a food truck that it is mobile? just seems odd to have a permanent location for one

[hamtown mike]

This is an amazing debate. I'm glad Detroit is in a position to have it.

In the article, the Checker owners mentioned a shift in the Detroit lunch crowd. Downtown office workers have less time for lunch [[30 minutes) and drink less, if at all.

Ok, so what have you done to address this shift? Joe's cart is presumably quicker and doesn't have the carrying cost of booze.

I do agree that there is an imbalance in property taxes etc between brick and mortar and food trucks. Then again you don't have to put $4 gas into a brick building. But you do have to put a different type of gas into a building in the winter time. A friend has raised the winter issue and few others have alluded to it here on dyes. Let's assume more trucks infiltrate the city this summer and all the lunch business winds up going to the trucks... What happens in the winter? Consumer beware for the last meatball you eat may be your own.

Detroit is so very afraid and resistant to change. We're so very afraid that our good enough way of life is being threatened. As others try harder that means we're going to have to try something different or 'gulp' try harder? F-that. Let's just shout "It's not fair!"

Right or wrong we stamp our feet and shout. Typically we shout more loudly when we're wrong to give the appearance of being right. [[sound familiar BAMN?) Instead of dealing with change we shout. Shout and shout some more until reality comes crashing down and we're forced to deal with it-aka the looming consent agreement. We're so accustomed to wallowing in our misery that we, for the life of us, cannot see opportunities right infront of our eyes. We're left staring backwards as the rest of the world moves forward.

For years we've been screaming for new life in the city. Now that it is here, who are we to be dissatisfied with their choices? We should have been more specific- please bring more 2-hour lunchin' booze-swillin' folks to the city who are satisfied with good enough.

[rjlj]

Good post hamtown mike.

Look at all the blamers and doers and see where the blamers end up in life.

Things are constantly changing, Detroit is just a little slower. Business is not the same as it was 50 years ago.

Either react to change or fail, simple as that.

[compn]

so because of the food truck, more people have checked out the checker bar?

the system works!

American Coney Island vs Lafayette Coney Island!
Geno's Steaks vs Pat's King of Steaks!

is no one going to suggest checkers should switch to a truck and give up paying property taxes too? haha

i agree with people up thread. go park near those blasted planet hollywoods or johnny rockets or red robin or tgi fridays or any of those fusion craptacular over-salted "restaurants".

so are the fries good at checkers bar? most bars have the frozen french fries, frozen burger patties, etc. where ARE the best burgers in town?

[Richard]

Isn't the idea of a food truck that it is mobile? just seems odd to have a permanent location for one

It's the concept that is being sold,I am working on a fleet of 15 trucks all are static locations and if placed near brick and mortar , no conflicting menus ,it's about choices .

Our lunch special is $6 which is what it would cost at any fast food place local and we have menu items as high as $12 ,it works well.

We were showcased by the food channel airing next week picked along with 5 other trucks in the country , I guess it is like anything else it is how you approach things.

[Detroitnerd]

One amusing point: Plenty of the downtown restaurants that are belly-aching about these food trucks just happen to make a large percentage of their revenue catering. In other words, using their approved kitchen to prepare food that goes out ... in a truck.

[begingri]

Chicago Food Trucks: Mayor Seeks Recipe To Expand Popular Restaurants On Wheels

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...hp_ref=chicago

[ellsa]

Well since this thread has been resurrected, here's and article about Portland.

http://www.saveur.com/article/Travel...nd-Food-Trucks


And here's a few pics from my trip there last week. These cart have wheels, but I don't think any of them move. This is the downtown food cart area. There is an even cooler on Hawthorne. One truck specializes in Poutine!

[Zacha341]

Hah! I don't really do sports but I do feel for the folks who are a 'captive audience' to the over-priced stuff, but hey if you buy it...

I think the food truck should set up shop next to the Hardrock Cafe or Hockeytown Cafe. It shouldn't be hard to compete with
the over-priced garbage they serve at the those places.

[Zacha341]

Sounds far, FAR better than McDonalds...

And here's a few pics from my trip there last week. These cart have wheels, but I don't think any of them move. This is the downtown food cart area. There is an even cooler on Hawthorne. One truck specializes in Poutine!

[illwill]

Well since this thread has been resurrected, here's and article about Portland.

http://www.saveur.com/article/Travel...nd-Food-Trucks


And here's a few pics from my trip there last week. These cart have wheels, but I don't think any of them move. This is the downtown food cart area. There is an even cooler on Hawthorne. One truck specializes in Poutine!

Looks like the state fair grounds. This is a bit too much for me.

[ellsa]

illwill....all I can say it is it exactly what food should be....fun and fresh with a lot of options. Also in Portland, several of these trucks have gone on to become brick and mortar [[ie tax paying, job creating) entities.