What ever happened to 4 a.m. bar closing time?

[SteveJ]

What difference does the alcohol cutoff time make? Wouldn't that just be sending the drinkers out on the streets at 4am instead of 2am? I'm not a ”party girl” so I don't know the philosophy of your average late night partygoer/watering hole frequenter. I'm sleepy by 11:30.

It really doesn't make a difference. Just people trying to justify their opinion with fictional data. Now you're just pushing all the drunk people into rush hour where before their really isn't many people driving around at 3 am. Big difference between 3-4 am and 5-6 am.

[downtownguy]

Just people trying to justify their opinion with fictional data. Now you're just pushing all the drunk people into rush hour where before their really isn't many people driving around at 3 am. Big difference between 3-4 am and 5-6 am.

OK, so let's get the facts straight. With a 2am closing time, wouldn't that mean people are on the road between 2-3am? And, if the closing time changed to 4am, I highly doubt there would be anywhere near the same number of people that would last until 4am. Instead, as many people have pointed out here, you would have a gradual exodus and not force people on the street drunk, just because it's 2am.

[Meddle]

Well, let's look at it this way.

Forced close at 2AM, many go to underground/after-hours clubs and don't leave until sunrise. These places pay no business taxes, no alcohol taxes and have no safety permits or inspections. Anyone who works there gets paid under the table, so no income taxes.

If the legal clubs were to stay open later, that money would flow into the legal economy.

[Lowell]

I'm all for 24/7 Las Vegas rules too = none. It enlivens the night life economy and saves the expense and nuisance of police enforcement. Governments make more tax money and spend less. What a novel concept!

One could make the argument that had there not been a 2AM law the 1967 riot would not have occurred. As is well known the riot was triggered by a raid on a blind pig party for two returning Vietnam war vets. A joyous and peaceful event was disrupted and normal law-abiding citizens arrested and humiliated. The result was many lives lost, tens of millions in damages and governmental expenses and the image of Detroit greatly crippled.

Allow adults to put whatever they choose to put in their bodies whenever they want. If they break a law as a result make them pay. Get our cops back to the job of getting the bad guys and leave the folks having fun alone.

[Meddle]

I'm all for 24/7 Las Vegas rules too = none.

Gotta get the preachers' stranglehold off the Clowncil for that to happen.

[DetroitPlanner]

It was 18. People got stupid, so it was changed back to 21.

I don't see the point of blackout hours at stores though.

I am fairly certain that was not added until TEA-21. I am fairly sure that this was signed by Clinton, Possibly GWB.

[Occurrence]

Unregulated after-hours bars are the funnest anyways. That's the only reason I'm for making bars close at 2.

People always complain about drunk drivers. So if that's the main problem, makes the fines and punishment even more severe. 5 years in jail for the first offense. I'd bet very few would risk it then.

[Meddle]

I am fairly certain that was not added until TEA-21.

I don't know what that is, but see post #24 above.

[Meddle]

So if that's the main problem, makes the fines and punishment even more severe. 5 years in jail for the first offense. I'd bet very few would risk it then.

Really? Free room and board, 3 squares a day, a paying job, TV, a library, a gym, and who knows what else.

Put them in a facility like the old DeHoCo, take them out at 6AM each day for roadside cleanup until 6PM, then back to the facility. They'll be too tired to cause problems and will just want to sleep until morning when it starts again. That, plus pay $15 or $20 a day for the privilege of being there.

For jail to be an effective deterrent, it needs to be something they don't like.

[iheartthed]

What difference does the alcohol cutoff time make? Wouldn't that just be sending the drinkers out on the streets at 4am instead of 2am?

Because the law also requires the establishments to close their doors at 2am. To be clear, Granholm's proposed change to the law was not to change the alcohol cutoff time, but it was to extend the hours that those establishments that serve alcohol are allowed to stay open. In NYC, bars are required to stop serving alcohol at 4am but they aren't required to close the doors then [[though some do since most places are already emptying out by then). In Las Vegas, they don't have an alcohol cut off time so there is never a case of pushing all the drunk people onto the streets at once.

[GUSHI]

24/7 makes sense, and also get the smoke ban lifted also,,,,,this states does shit backwards, if I wanna have a cig and a drink @3a.m. I should be able to i am a adult.bars after 10 should allow there patrons to smoke if they want to, no little kids in bars after 10p.m.

[GUSHI]

Also, the bars should have the option to let people smoke,

[Occurrence]

Really? Free room and board, 3 squares a day, a paying job, TV, a library, a gym, and who knows what else.

Put them in a facility like the old DeHoCo, take them out at 6AM each day for roadside cleanup until 6PM, then back to the facility. They'll be too tired to cause problems and will just want to sleep until morning when it starts again. That, plus pay $15 or $20 a day for the privilege of being there.

For jail to be an effective deterrent, it needs to be something they don't like.

I don't really know anybody who enjoyed serving time. I really don't know what you're talking about. We must run with different crowds.

[poobert]

If drinking and driving is a problem, mass transit is a great solution for that among other things. I have been completely shitfaced in Europe, just gently rocking back and forth on the tram, no danger to anyone, at a fare of a couple dollars.
Walkable neighborhoods are great for alcohol enthusiasts too. Too bad we don't believe in those here either.

[DetroitPlanner]

I don't know what that is, but see post #24 above.

IF I am reading it right #24 refers to State Law, not federal.

The 1984 law reduced the amount of the apportionment. It was much later when it became a requirement to recieve any federal funding from the Highway Trust Fund.

[DetroitPlanner]

If drinking and driving is a problem, mass transit is a great solution for that among other things. I have been completely shitfaced in Europe, just gently rocking back and forth on the tram, no danger to anyone, at a fare of a couple dollars.
Walkable neighborhoods are great for alcohol enthusiasts too. Too bad we don't believe in those here either.

I guess the bars should close at nine cuz thats when you can catch the last of the DDOTs!

[royce]

I'm surprised at the number of conservative views being expressed on this topic. On several occasions, forumers have expressed how if Detroit wants to be a "world class" city it needs things like transit or a vibrant downtown or national chain stores. Yet, in all of the cities that are considered world class like NYC, Chicago, Paris, or London, they have bars and clubs with hours that go way beyond 2:00 a.m. So, why are New Yorkers and Chicagoans able to have bars and clubs stay open beyond 2:00 a.m. without problems? What is it about them that makes them comfortable with late bar and club hours but Detroiters or Detroit lovers don't think it's a good idea? I just don't understand the contradiction.

[laphoque]

People always complain about drunk drivers. So if that's the main problem, makes the fines and punishment even more severe. 5 years in jail for the first offense. I'd bet very few would risk it then.

The law barely deters anyone from doing that they please, least of all drunk people. What has shown some success in reducing the rates of drunk driving is the ignition breathalyzers.

I do agree that the best way to prevent drunk driving is to build alternatives to driving to the bar. You can't drive home drunk if your car is already at home.