State to Give Council Consent Agreement

[gnome]

If The Gov channeled Willy Wonka, he might sound like this:

[atl_runner]

will only get better when they have hit bottom or die.

Hit Bottom or die.. Detroit has proven time and time again that the Bottom can keep moving lower and lower. In the D, there is no bottom. There is no death.

This Consent agreement is the closest thing to hope that the city has left. EFM.. whatever it takes.

I think it's said best this way. BAMN!

[dmike76]

My initial impression of all of this blustering by Bing is a political move to appease the people. I agree with Snyder that there is a huge cultural problem with Detroit when it comes to help from the state [[see JoAnn Watson for one example). WE ARE DETROIT! Blah blah blah. A lot of the terms are harsh and I'm not shocked that the clowncil is screaming. What scares me is that the clowncil has to sign off on this. They're never going to do it; they're going to want to keep all of their power, which is a HUGE part of the problem. I'm not sure that the D is going to be able to avoid an EFM with the current leaders.

[corktownyuppie]

My initial impression of all of this blustering by Bing is a political move to appease the people. I agree with Snyder that there is a huge cultural problem with Detroit when it comes to help from the state [[see JoAnn Watson for one example). WE ARE DETROIT! Blah blah blah. A lot of the terms are harsh and I'm not shocked that the clowncil is screaming. What scares me is that the clowncil has to sign off on this. They're never going to do it; they're going to want to keep all of their power, which is a HUGE part of the problem. I'm not sure that the D is going to be able to avoid an EFM with the current leaders.

I agree about the blustering, now that the dust has settled for a day. And I'd say council is more divided than opposed...

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...ment_pitc.html

Despite the noise, City Council does its job

On the other hand, with the exception of Watson, Council seemed serious about determining if the proposed agreement is a good, or at least best possible, deal for a Detroit that stands on the fiscal precipice.

Councilman Andre Spivey: This is real. We might run out of cash in 60 days. If we run out of cash in 60 days, we are going to have some pissed off city workers who will not come to work and will not service our citizens.

Council President Charles Pugh: Or an Emergency Manager by the end of the month.

Spivey: That’s right…I am by no means saying yes or no to a consent agreement right now. All I’m saying is my colleague [Saunteel] Jenkins asked [Council’s Research and Analysis staff] to look it over and bring back your opinion. From that opinion, we can begin to shape how we think about the document.

That's all I need to hear. There's gonna be a consent agreement. It's just a matter of how long it takes to get there and the words in the agreement. But when push comes to shove, when threatened with missing payroll or getting an EFM vs. taking the consent agreement, they'll take the consent agreement.

[Novine]

"I agree with Snyder that there is a huge cultural problem with Detroit when it comes to help from the state [[see JoAnn Watson for one example)."

Anyone care to defend the two state takeovers of DPS and how well those have worked? Based on the state's abysmal performance at DPS, why should any Detroit resident have any faith that the state would be of any more help when it comes to managing the city's affairs?

[SteveJ]

You can have Harvard take over with billions of dollars and their still would be no hope in DPS. It goes back to the community and unfortunately, their are too many baby mamas and kids with no father. Unless the community can get their act together, then don't blame the state.

[Det_ard]

"I agree with Snyder that there is a huge cultural problem with Detroit when it comes to help from the state [[see JoAnn Watson for one example)."

Anyone care to defend the two state takeovers of DPS and how well those have worked? Based on the state's abysmal performance at DPS, why should any Detroit resident have any faith that the state would be of any more help when it comes to managing the city's affairs?

You can only make the case that Obama makes regarding the stimulus, that the status quo would have been worse than with state intervention. Tough to prove even if correct.

[mam2009]

I agree about the blustering, now that the dust has settled for a day. And I'd say council is more divided than opposed...

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...ment_pitc.html


That's all I need to hear. There's gonna be a consent agreement. It's just a matter of how long it takes to get there and the words in the agreement. But when push comes to shove, when threatened with missing payroll or getting an EFM vs. taking the consent agreement, they'll take the consent agreement.

I'm so glad you found that little snipet from the meeting. When you get ”straight from the horse's mouth” information you see that the current Council is far more reasonable than reporters and columnists portray them. Generally, the Council members have very reasonable ideas and conversations. They are not the characters many of you think they are. To me, it would be a shame if a consent decree penalizes a Council that has demonstrated over & over its willingness to make cuts and other tough fiscal decisions. The Council quietly cut its budget again yesterday. I didn't have their agenda in front of me so I wouldn't have known had Councilwoman Jenkins not said it ever so quietly. But guess what, that doesn't make the news.

The exaggeration that the Council objects to the consent decree made the news even though only two out of nine Council members expressed their disdain for the concept of a consent decree on philosophical grounds. And since one of them objected so very loudly and passionately, the whole Council was painted by our local media as being opposed to it and self-serving -- yes, I'm talking about you too, Mr. Henderson!!! Since you're commenting on Council's reactions, Mr. Henderson, were you actually at the Council session yesterday? Did you hear the part about the Council cutting its budget yesterday? If you weren't there, did your reporter fail to mention that to you? And, if you were aware of it, did you, Mr. Henderson, think that at all noteworthy given that it occurred on the same day and in stark contrast to your observation that "it's clear from their reactions Tuesday that MOST of the city's elected officials saw only their own little worlds collapsing under the governor's proposal"? When did 2 out of 9 become a majority?

BTW, Mr. Henderson, maybe the Freep ought to hire Jeff T. Wattrick from MLive.com. That was good and, more importantly, ACCURATE reporting!

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Will Detroit shrink to 250,000-500,000 before it emerges as a sustainable city? Very possibly. But at least then we'll be on firm ground and ready to build.

Hey Cork,
I mostly agree with you on these points, but this last one is wrong, in my opinion. Detroit will be paying off a massive debt load for the next 30 years [[excluding any further borrowing). The fewer residents we have, the fewer people paying off that debt. Billions and billions. Our fleeing residents have not been unemployed homeless people. People with jobs and houses have been leaving. The fewer taxpayers we have, the shakier our finances will be. Bill Gates would have a tough time being a Detroit resident, if he were the last one here. All long term fiscal plans for the city need to include more people here paying taxes [[at low rates!). If it were up to me, I would have every politician who spent so wrecklessly in the last half century, burying a once-rich city in debt, take part in a game of sky diving sans parachutes. But, back to the point, until our debt is paid off, a city of even fewer people will be in worse shape.

Mikey

[Detroitdave]

The Mayor and the city council said they were going to have to make some "HARD" choices , Well they've had over a year , and everybody saw the writing on the wall. Here are the hard choices ! do something , so since you can't do something , ask for help, it's way over the head of the mayor and the city council.
when I need help I ask. they must be smoking crack if the think the state is going to just write a blank check . this is how we got to this point .
for 40 years this city has been run into the ground, and I have NO faith that THIS mayor and city council can fix this problem, it's just too big !
There is nothing wrong with asking for help, it's not pretty and it's gonna hurt , but really what choices does the city really have ? We've herd all the choices and we've had the "best" minds in Michigan working on it.
Well folks this is what they came up with . Outside of a federal take over we aren't getting much more , and we don't want the feds to move it.
Sorry folks, if it was better we would have herd it by now, we got a 40 year hole to dig out of ! EVERYBODY GRAB A SHOVEL !

[rex]

1 way or the other city employees are going to get the shit end of the stick.
I feel like the state is going to come in and start cleaning house, chopping things left and right. Rightsizing city govt so to speak but it probably wont be enough. Its the difference between a smaller paycheck and no pay check. However, inevitably it will amount to no paycheck for some. Until the city is able to get things like crime, schools, unemployment under control people will continue to leave and property values will remain at a level that wont generate enough taxes to run the city.

[Smirnoff]

I am beginning to wonder if the strategic move[[s) made by Coleman Young years ago for people to immediately leave [[move out) was financially sound [[LOL).....hmmmmm.

[douglasm]

I was thinking along the lines of Novine's post about what "wand" could be waived. We've got a city out here that's looking at possible bankruptcy [[if the voters don't pass a tax increase next month) that is the result of some poor financial planning 5 years ago. It is very hard to undo the past, and both the town in question and Detroit are finding out that lesson the hard way.

[Novine]

Other than Henderson's column today, most of the media coverage of Council has acknowledged their willingness to cut deeper than Bing. Most of the uninformed commentary comes in the comments on the various newspaper sites where you have people acting as if Monica Conyers is still leading Council. Most commenters don't have the first clue that the makeup of today's Council looks nothing like the days when Monica was running Council.

[mikeg19]

Tick tock tick tock. December's cries of "We are Detroit and we will handle this problem ourselves" has turned into 3 months later and numerous chances by the State for the city to come to an agreement. Well they have managed to bicker and complain the past 3 months away and have 13 days until the EM comes in and gets done what needed to happen 3 months ago. If I [[or probably a lot of people) had it their way, everyone on council would be run out of town. A lot of what we're reading and seeing is people trying to save their own asses. I don't know how this is going to turn out with an EM, but the way Bing is throwing this consent agreement back in Snyder's face, I don't see any other way to correct this problem. So, we will see what happens in two weeks, and if anyone is getting paid in 60 days.

[douglasm]

I'll grant you that I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but the point should be made that it's very difficult to "cut" your way out of a hole. Eventually you reach the point that you might as well close the business you're trying to save.

The problem is you can't close a city, and some services must survive. I'm inclined to believe that the only way a city can survive in a situation like this would be with a massive infusion of capital to 1) stop the bleeding and 2) allow the city time enough to figure out how to revive itself without spending all it's time on where to put the next band-aid.

[SteveJ]

It really hard to take Detroit city council serious when your leader is Charles Pugh and you got "Ms. Africa" Jo Ann Watson. Then their were some classics. You had Kay Everett who demanded a bribe of sausage. Alonzo Bates who was exposed by the news station and then elected after all of that. What about Martha Reeves, Monica Conyers, and Sharon McPhail. I mean this is an all-star line up of clowns.

[motownmark04]

If the leaders of Detroit were intent on saving the city - nothing more, nothing less - I don't think that they'd be standing in the way of state intervention on any level.

Detroit has no plan.
Detroit has no money.
Detroit's resources are scarce.

To me, the real disappointment in this entire debacle is Dave Bing. When he was elected mayor, I had high hopes that competency, diligence, and professionalism would be restored to the mayor's office. What we got instead was another pandering politician who plays with the same deck of cards that city politicians have been playing with for years.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

The only realistic person in Detroit city government, in my opinion, is Gary Brown. From MLive almost a year ago:

However, Gary Brown said a consent decree may be inevitable, given the scale of Detroit’s budget process. He said he thinks proactively going forward with the consent process is the best way to ensure favorable terms.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I was thinking along the lines of Novine's post about what "wand" could be waived. We've got a city out here that's looking at possible bankruptcy [[if the voters don't pass a tax increase next month) that is the result of some poor financial planning 5 years ago. It is very hard to undo the past, and both the town in question and Detroit are finding out that lesson the hard way.

I truly don't think it is possible for the city to raise more revenue. Any tax increase will lead to less revenue because of the economic destruction it would do. Income tax increases will cause everyone who moved to the city with the various midtown/downtown incentives to move right back out when their leases expire. Property tax increase will increase the already astronomical default rate; as it is, so much property is relatively worthless [[sometimes even with nice houses!); you can't get much revenue from a house with no value. I can't think of any significant fee or tax the city could pass that would merely bring in more revenue. Harsh as it is, there just is no more money, and they have to cut services, lay people off, stop pension contributions. Complaining about the effects of necessary cuts is like complaining about a rude waiter on the Titanic; it may be true, but it is also pointless. Accept the cuts. We'll live through it. In a few years, we may start to be able to have *a little* spending money again. Thanks to the voters [[who elect irresponsible asshole politicians) for the last several decades, it actually is not possible for Detroit to pay for the services to which it has become accustomed. The Detroit Donner Party is out of the last few morsels of food. Hopefully we can avoid eating each other, but we have an awful financial winter to get through before spring brings food again.

[corktownyuppie]

I'll grant you that I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but the point should be made that it's very difficult to "cut" your way out of a hole. Eventually you reach the point that you might as well close the business you're trying to save.

The problem is you can't close a city, and some services must survive. I'm inclined to believe that the only way a city can survive in a situation like this would be with a massive infusion of capital to 1) stop the bleeding and 2) allow the city time enough to figure out how to revive itself without spending all it's time on where to put the next band-aid.

Assuming that what you are saying is true -- and I'm inclined to say that you're likely to be more right than wrong -- it's only reasonable to expect that anyone who gives you the capital infusion will also demand that they control what you do with it. That's only fair.

[Detroitdave]

I agree with motownmark, if the city leaders were really intent on saving the city they would be more honest about the "hard" choices.
Detroit is like a mini Greece and the State is Germany. If you want finance help here is what want we , take it or leave it . If you find a better offer take ..the problems of Detroit are historic and I don't know if the Mayor or the city council are whiling to make unpopular choice , they are grandstanding for the "constituents" .
I wish mayor Bing and the city council had the same "fire" when it comes to crime in the city. If I hear him or any one else say on council say "why in the hell would I do... " I don't know what I'm going to do .
So unprofessional !
This is the same "constituents" that vetoed Kwame Kilpatrick in TWICE and if he'd run again would probably veto him back in office again !
I believe the voting "constituents" left in the city are two fold, those who realize that we are in BIG trouble and this is inevitable, and then there are the others who still believe that we can "kick the can down the road", well folks they are taking the can away, so time to get to work , we need to stop trying to put off the inevitable. Let's do it ,move on and show the state , country and world that Detroit can be taken seriously and can make some hard choices .
Detroit is not the only place this is happening , but here is an opportunity for Detroit and the state to put Detroit in an positive light.
I am a optimist but its been proven that when people don't do anything , it usually leads to a negative out come .

If the leaders of Detroit were intent on saving the city - nothing more, nothing less - I don't think that they'd be standing in the way of state intervention on any level.

Detroit has no plan.
Detroit has no money.
Detroit's resources are scarce.

To me, the real disappointment in this entire debacle is Dave Bing. When he was elected mayor, I had high hopes that competency, diligence, and professionalism would be restored to the mayor's office. What we got instead was another pandering politician who plays with the same deck of cards that city politicians have been playing with for years.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

The only realistic person in Detroit city government, in my opinion, is Gary Brown. From MLive almost a year ago:

[313WX]

Detroit is like a mini Greece and the State is Germany. If you want finance help here is what want we , take it or leave it .

I like that you mentiond Greece.

Would you say Greece is any better with the severe austerity measures they made? In other words, as is today, do you see it FOR YOUR FAMILY as a more livable country in comparison to what is was?

Most would say no.

If anything, it has accelerated their decline per the available evidence.

[corktownyuppie]

I like that you mentiond Greece.

Would you say Greece is any better with the severe austerity measures they made? In other words, as is today, do you see it FOR YOUR FAMILY as a more livable country in comparison to what is was?

Most would say no.

If anything, it has accelerated their decline per the available evidence.

Your analysis on Greece is the right analogy. The problem is in your presumption that any solution will make Greece "more livable" for families.

That's missing the fundamental point of debt problems.

When you've been mismanaging the finances for this long, your choices aren't "less livable" vs. "more livable" for families...your choices are "less livable" and "much, much, more less livable".

If Detroit had made the choices to be less livable for families back in 2000 or 1995, it would been political suicide, and it would have been bad. But we could've also prevented a lot of what's going on right now.

Now we're left with two choices...."take it" or "leave it". One makes Detroit less livable. One makes Detroit a LOT less livable. But if we just suck it up and take the first choice, we can start laying down the foundation of a sustainable municipal unit and see some good in 5-10 years. If we don't, we're just repeating the same mistakes of the past.

[JBMcB]

Would you say Greece is any better with the severe austerity measures they made? In other words, as is today, do you see it FOR YOUR FAMILY as a more livable country in comparison to what is was?

Greece has no choice. They borrowed *WAY* more than their economy could bear, and invested the borrowed money in wasteful projects. Their options are austerity, or their revolving line of credit gets shut down and their economy implodes.

This is what happens with the government is tightly involved with every aspect of an economy, and they run out of other people's money to spend.

[Novine]

"Now we're left with two choices...."take it" or "leave it". One makes Detroit less livable. One makes Detroit a LOT less livable. But if we just suck it up and take the first choice, we can start laying down the foundation of a sustainable municipal unit and see some good in 5-10 years. If we don't, we're just repeating the same mistakes of the past."

Notice how no one, not the Governor, not the Mayor, not the Council or the major media outlets talk about this reality. The EFM process isn't intended to save cities. It's about ending the "financial emergency". The end result is irrelevant so long as the books are "balanced". The city is going to continue to spiral downward as services are slashed, pay is cut and those who can flee for the suburbs.

Detroit's situation is even worse than Greece's. In Greece, the bondholders took a haircut. In Detroit's case, the bondholders won't suffer at all, only the citizens and the employees are going to feel the pain for years.