Iran Shows It Has What It Takes

[sturge]

I like Fareed Zakaria's comment. Playing the nice guy instead of the bully can sway public opinion.

CNN: What should the United States do?
Zakaria: I would say continue what we have been doing. By reaching out to Iran, publicly and repeatedly, President Obama has made it extremely difficult for the Iranian regime to claim that they are battling an aggressive America bent on attacking Iran. In his inaugural address, his New Year greetings, and his Cairo speech, there is a consistent effort to convey respect and friendship for Iranians. That is why Khamenei reacted so angrily to the New Year greeting. It undermined the image of the Great Satan that he routinely paints in his sermons. In his Friday sermon, Khamenei said that the United States, Israel, and especially the United Kingdom were behind the street protests, an accusation that will surely sound ridiculous to most Iranians. The fact that Obama has been cautious in his reaction makes it all the harder for Khamenei and Ahmadinejad to wrap themselves in a nationalist flag.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/...ons/index.html

[gibran]

God Bless the people of Iran...

[Sstashmoo]

Some in our government are licking their chops to get some boots on the ground there.

As far as us not being behind this, I'd like to believe that, but history shows this fits our MO to a T.

[ccbatson]

Maybe the protests in Iran will have a positive effect. More likely, as in China, escalating violence will suppress the uprising.

[rb336]

the difference here is that it appears the ruling bodies involved are fracturing

[Lorax]

The Iranians have a new symbol of their three decade long struggle for secular freedom in a young woman named Neda.

She was shot to death by a sniper as she protested this weekend, unarmed- murdered by the fascist religious thugs that make up the ruling junta in Iran.

All the more reason to keep religion out of politics- everywhere. It only leads to death and destruction.

Religion is really the culprit here, and it's overwhelming influence on otherwise educated, seemingly sane people.

The Ayatollah this weekend was spotted circling Tehran in a helicopter directing the military to shoot protesters in certain parts of the city.

This is precisely why religion is doomed.

Religion and those who propogate it's indemic nature of exclusivity and restriction are digging their own graves.

Religion has no purpose in government, a lesson I though we learned in 1776, but have needed to smack down from time to time with regard to the Christian fundamentalists in this country who seek to subvert the Constitution.

Theocracies may have worked in an age when we had no measurable technology, or science to explain things like why the sun goes away at night.

Obviously in a modern world religion and politics cannot work in unison, and one has to fall by the wayside, consigned to the ash can of history, and seemingly it will be religion.

And it should be.

If people choose to believe in unprovable, eccentric theories about life, death, and the meaning of why we are here- that has always been a choice, one protected by our Constitution, and by the constitutions of other nations as well.

But such dogmatic ideals are incompatible with governance, and especially having access to weapons of mass destruction.

This cannot be allowed, since religion extremism has been on the rise, especially in nations where the world and it's influences are shut out, creating a religious fervor that can only end badly for everyone.

I hope Iran uses this critical moment in it's history to end this autorcatic, fascist influence on it's people.

[Danny]

Free Iran from the "Islamic Pope" called the Grand Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

Free Iran from "The dictatator" Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

Free Iran for Neda's sake

Free Iran for true Islamic democracy

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "Religion has no purpose in government, a lesson I though we learned in 1776, but have needed to smack down from time to time with regard to the Christian fundamentalists in this country who seek to subvert the Constitution."

Someone who knows absolutely nothing about this nations history. Yes, Lorax, you're right, you and yours have twisted the constitution around to fit the agenda. This country has turned it's back and you see where it has gotten us. Get ready for more of it. If one were to look and think about it, there is a definite correlation in this country's prosperity and the liberal movement. Look at the data.

Quote: "The Ayatollah this weekend was spotted circling Tehran in a helicopter directing the military to shoot protesters in certain parts of the city."

Did you read this in the Enquirer? Man the mental imagery is tough.. LOL

Lorax, You live in a religious world and country, 90% believe in a higher power. Religion isn't going anywhere.

[rb336]

Quote: "Religion has no purpose in government, a lesson I though we learned in 1776, but have needed to smack down from time to time with regard to the Christian fundamentalists in this country who seek to subvert the Constitution."

Someone who knows absolutely nothing about this nations history. Yes, Lorax, you're right, you and yours have twisted the constitution around to fit the agenda. This country has turned it's back and you see where it has gotten us. Get ready for more of it. If one were to look and think about it, there is a definite correlation in this country's prosperity and the liberal movement. Look at the data.

certainly is. biggest boom in wages was a direct result of strong laws supporting organized labor. when those laws were undermined by ronnie, the current downward spiral began

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "certainly is. biggest boom in wages was a direct result of strong laws supporting organized labor."

I was referring to THE economy, not YOUR economy. You really think wages are what controls the prosperity of the nation as a whole?

[Bong-Man]

None of this has any effect on the issue that most conservatives hold dear to their hearts....Iran going nuclear. The press constantly makes a big deal about all of the intelligent, under 30, student voters in Iran that lean democratic. Every poll taken has demonstrated that the Iranian people, young or old, and regardless of religion......the issue of Iran having nuclear capability is a no-brainer. 90% of all Iranians want nuclear capability. They feel it is their right as a sovereign nation.

[gnome]

Attachment 1966

Neda has become the symbol of freedom's cost.

[Sstashmoo]

Sad for Neda.

Don't forget Rachel Corrie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Corrie

[mjs]

As an American, I say Iran with nukes will be a disaster, but if I were born an Iranian Muslim, I'd say Westerners with any weapons is a disaster. Objectively looking back in history, nobody has been able to kill better than Western Christians, torture better, oppress more, accomplish more imperialistic acts, or even get near as close to an almost complete genocide. I mean any terrorist or warlord has to be very impressed with our tactics on native americans and using religion to get such overwhelming approval for such acts against these heathens that God says must be driven from our holy land. Very sad to say, the US still hasn't risen above torture or regime change and is still so ethnocentric that most Americans still can't tell you how many arabs have been killed in either Iraq or Afghanistan. Why? Because, just as we have viewed other non-white christians in the past, we believe that Arabs are more like our animals than like us so they deserve to be treated like out of control rabid animals.

[oladub]

The BBC wrpte a positive article about how Obama's positive policy toward Iran has been difficult for the leaders there to respond to.

"State department official Phillip Crowley said the offer of engagement appeared to have contributed to the dynamic of events in Iran even though "the debate is mostly among Iranians and about the future of Iran".
"The offer of engagement by the president helped start a debate in Iran that was perhaps more robust than the Iranian government anticipated," he said.
"In the midst of this debate, it would appear the government overreacted and the results of the election have lacked credibility in the eyes of the Iranian people."
- The consequences of engaging Iran

Meanwhile Congress was doing its best to interfere with and embarrass the Iranian regime. It voted 405-1 to condemn the Iranian government. There was really no need for this meaningless posturing gesture while the administration's plan was working well.

"The issue has put Obama in a tough spot, with conservatives blasting him for not showing more support for demonstrators, and Iran criticizing the U.S. and Obama for meddling in its affairs."
- House approves Iran bill 405-1

[Lorax]

Quote: "Religion has no purpose in government, a lesson I though we learned in 1776, but have needed to smack down from time to time with regard to the Christian fundamentalists in this country who seek to subvert the Constitution."

Someone who knows absolutely nothing about this nations history. Yes, Lorax, you're right, you and yours have twisted the constitution around to fit the agenda. This country has turned it's back and you see where it has gotten us. Get ready for more of it. If one were to look and think about it, there is a definite correlation in this country's prosperity and the liberal movement. Look at the data.

Quote: "The Ayatollah this weekend was spotted circling Tehran in a helicopter directing the military to shoot protesters in certain parts of the city."

Did you read this in the Enquirer? Man the mental imagery is tough.. LOL

Lorax, You live in a religious world and country, 90% believe in a higher power. Religion isn't going anywhere.

What you fail to realize, and it's odd, considering you live in America [[I'm assuming you do), is that America was founded as a SECULAR nation, not a religious one. We have no state sponsored religion as in Iran. I'm quite sure you're aware of this, but it wasn't evident in the final drive-by statements of your post.

The part about the Ayatollah circling the city in a helicopter was sourced through an I-Reporter sending his photos to CNN, which were then repeated on NBC. I'm sure it was on other stations as well, but I can't watch all of them simultaneously.

More to the point, this nation was founded on priciples of secularism, not religiousness. Freedom from as well as of religion was particular to our Constitution, and somehow angers the religious nutbags in this country, since they all seem to think we were founded on Judeo-Christian principles [[they call it values) which is another baseless, rethugnican shape-shifting position, used to drive a wedge between liberals and conservatives.

Perhaps you should re-read our Constitiution, and refrain from telling me that I don't know my nation's history. I just refuse to believe those who choose to rewrite history to satisfy their servile, braindead dogma.

[ccbatson]

Basic religious principles are at the core of our government and social system...inalienable rights...according to whom, or what? What are Oaths sworn to?

Beyond this [[and it is not a minor point), further organized religion in operation in the public sector should be removed.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "More to the point, this nation was founded on priciples of secularism, not religiousness."

Read some of our history:

""1490-1492 – Columbus’ commission was given to set out to find a new world.
According to Columbus’ personal log, his purpose in seeking undiscovered worlds was to “bring the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the heathens. …. It was the Lord who put into my mind … that it would be possible to sail from here to the Indies … I am the most unworthy sinner, but I have cried out to the Lord for grace and mercy, and they have covered me completely … No one should fear to undertake any task in the name of our Saviour, if it is just and if the intention is purely for His holy service.” [[Columbus’ Book of Prophecies)""


Interesting timeline:


http://www.forerunner.com/forerunner..._Christia.html

If anything, the Christian based formation and heritage of this country has been downplayed.

[Lorax]

Basic religious principles are at the core of our government and social system...inalienable rights...according to whom, or what? What are Oaths sworn to?

Beyond this [[and it is not a minor point), further organized religion in operation in the public sector should be removed.

You mean, WHO are oaths sworn to.

In George Tush's administration, loyalty oaths were sworn to King George Tush. Just ask Monica Goodling working under Gonzo at the Justice Department.

Oaths sworn on a bible is a quaint historical anectdote, but certainly wouldn't have any meaning to a non-christian or an atheist.

[ccbatson]

You agree with me for once Lorax...in a begrudging and bitter fashion, but you acknowledge my point...is there some hope for you?

[Lorax]

Read some of our history:

""1490-1492 – Columbus’ commission was given to set out to find a new world.
According to Columbus’ personal log, his purpose in seeking undiscovered worlds was to “bring the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the heathens. …. It was the Lord who put into my mind … that it would be possible to sail from here to the Indies … I am the most unworthy sinner, but I have cried out to the Lord for grace and mercy, and they have covered me completely … No one should fear to undertake any task in the name of our Saviour, if it is just and if the intention is purely for His holy service.� [[Columbus’ Book of Prophecies)""


Interesting timeline:


http://www.forerunner.com/forerunner..._Christia.html

If anything, the Christian based formation and heritage of this country has been downplayed.

And this makes it OK how?

Nothing new here. No one disputes the extreme religious beliefs of Spain at that time.

They were also allowing Torquemada free reign in tortuing and murdering thousands of "heathens" during the Inquisition.

So your point is?

[ccbatson]

Way before our constitution and therefore not relevant to the current conversation...Uh oh, now I agree with Lorax.

[Lorax]

You agree with me for once Lorax...in a begrudging and bitter fashion, but you acknowledge my point...is there some hope for you?

Perhaps it is you who agrees with me- begrudging, bitter and batty, as it were.

[Lorax]

Way before our constitution and therefore not relevant to the current conversation...Uh oh, now I agree with Lorax.

Careful, I'm not going to date you.

[ccbatson]

No worries...already very much spoken for.