AUDIT: Part of $11 million grant for Detroit job seekers only aided 2 people

**jt1** · March-09-12, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Yeah the devil is in the details along with the missing funds. Mismanagement of funds/ moneys is so ingrained locally and justified! And then defended, and then justified some more!

If you are stated it is defended/justified here I would like some quotes of people defending the mismanagement/theft.

There are two common themes:

1. The city is at fault and people are upset and officials should be fired/charged.
2. The reporting is severly lacking and leaves some people to believe that $11MM was earmarked to clothe only 400 people.

Both apply and neither are defending or justifying the waste.

**Wesley Mouch** · March-09-12, 01:50 PM

Its a given that the city cannot operate competently. So the real question to me is....

What do you think about the city buying clothes for people who have a job interview scheduled?

Is this an appropriate function of city government?

**jt1** · March-09-12, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Its a given that the city cannot operate competently. So the real question to me is....

What do you think about the city buying clothes for people who have a job interview scheduled?

Is this an appropriate function of city government?

Nope. This should be managed by a non-profit. I'd also question how funds can be justified by this regardless if it is state, local or federal. I'm all for job training programs but this pushes the envelope.

Buy American · March-09-12, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by jt1

I’m starting to believe that you are either the most dense person around or just ignoring the points to keep yourself entertained. So to answer your questions/respond to your statements:

Was there any place in the article where it said that only 2 people benefitted from this grant? [[My response)The article stated only two people have benefited from this one function. It also lists other functions that operate under this grant [[including a call center intended to assist up to 60,000 poor people or families)
Was there any place in this article where it said that 400 low-income people should have benefitted? [[My response)Yes, the article stated this function was intended to help 400 people. The article stated this was one function of the $11MM grant. Maybe it needs to be stated more explicity so it will sink in for you. By stating, or believing, that the $11MM grant was intended to help clothe 400 people implies that you are dense enough to believe that the grant was to allocate $27,500 per person for clothing. Surely you’re not that naive.
Let's cut the crap and face the facts that the money was mis-managed because $11 Million dollars surely did not go for what it was intended for. [[My response)This is the gist of my argument – what was the $11MM intended to do, what amount was allocated to clothe 400 people and what amount was wasted to only clothe 2 people. Pretty simple questions. The entire $11MM may have been wasted but I assure you it was not wasted on clothing only 2 people.
Why is it so hard to just accept that the City can't handle it's own finances and that there are many corrupt individuals working there who are pocketing funds? [[My response)I have stated in damn near every post that the city is at fault, can’t manage their money and people should be fired and/or charged with crimes. Why is it so hard for you to read those statements?
You just want to shoot the messenger. [[My response)Nope. I want to shoot [[or publicly flog) the officials that are mismanaging the money through theft, corruption or incompetence. I just want to messenger to have some integrity in their reporting.

Hopefully, after reading this you are clear on two very critical things:

I am upset about the city’s mismanagement and want anyone associated with waste in the city fired or, if possible, criminally charged. I have stated this in almost every post here.
The entire $11MM grant went to multiple functions. Clothing 400 people was likely a small part of it. The news is being inflammatory by putting out articles that lead people like you to believe that $11MM was actually given to clothe 400 people.

1. You are as upset as I am over the city's mismanagement and want
anyone responsible held accountable for it.

2. I am not naive enough to think that $11 million went towards clothing
two people. The multiple functions you refer to are still in question, more
like multiple pockets.

3. "I guess DFD didn’t require critical thinking skills." Please don't attack
me personally. My critical thinking skills [[as a Lieutenant in the DFD when
I retired) kept many younger and less experienced firefighters out of
harms way and probably saved many lives.

**jt1** · March-09-12, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Buy American

1. You are as upset as I am over the city's mismanagement and want
anyone responsible held accountable for it.

2. I am not naive enough to think that $11 million went towards clothing
two people. The multiple functions you refer to are still in question, more
like multiple pockets.

3. "I guess DFD didn’t require critical thinking skills." Please don't attack
me personally. My critical thinking skills [[as a Lieutenant in the DFD when
I retired) kept many younger and less experienced firefighters out of
harms way and probably saved many lives.

1. I think that we are euqally upset at the city for mismanagement.
2. I don't believe you are but you certainly imply it in your posts. I would also agree with you that the other functions likely weren't managed well and need a full audit.
3. I deleted this awhile back [[probably while you were drafting your response as it was inappropriate and brings nothing to the discussion. My apologies for posting it in the first place.

**Wesley Mouch** · March-09-12, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by jt1

Nope. This should be managed by a non-profit. I'd also question how funds can be justified by this regardless if it is state, local or federal. I'm all for job training programs but this pushes the envelope.

Everyone is for 'job training'. The question is who is best qualified to do it.

Detroit has no proven capability to do 'job training'.

And Detroit has no money to pay firefighters.

Focus on being a good city, and leave this social engineering to others.

**Det_ard** · March-09-12, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by jt1

Agreed - More and more is coming out about the $$ the city has to help people [[weatherization grants, razing homes, this, etc) that is either not being spent or being spent ineffectively or criminally.

Let's bring back the previous city auditor [[I can't remember his name) and actually have Bing and CC listen to him [[since KK and the last council wouldn't)

Joe Harris.

He's currently the EFM in Benton Harbor where he's doing a pretty good job but getting attacked by Rachel Maddow/MSNBC/HuffPo types who think he's the devil incarnate.

Buy American · March-09-12, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by jt1

1. I think that we are euqally upset at the city for mismanagement.
2. I don't believe you are but you certainly imply it in your posts. I would also agree with you that the other functions likely weren't managed well and need a full audit.
3. I deleted this awhile back [[probably while you were drafting your response as it was inappropriate and brings nothing to the discussion. My apologies for posting it in the first place.

Apology accepted, thank you.

**jt1** · March-09-12, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Everyone is for 'job training'. The question is who is best qualified to do it.

Detroit has no proven capability to do 'job training'.

And Detroit has no money to pay firefighters.

Focus on being a good city, and leave this social engineering to others.

I was talking about funding for job training in general, not the city managing it. As far as I'm concerned the city should get out of managing a significant amount of these functions and trun it over to non-profits [[I don't trust the state or federal gov't to do what's right for Detroit anymore than I trust Detroit government)

**Wesley Mouch** · March-09-12, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by jt1

I was talking about funding for job training in general, not the city managing it. As far as I'm concerned the city should get out of managing a significant amount of these functions and trun it over to non-profits [[I don't trust the state or federal gov't to do what's right for Detroit anymore than I trust Detroit government)

Agreed. Although I'm a bit more accepting that the State and Feds are somewhat more competent.

The core question is should the city pay for firefighters or this type of program?

I accept that sometimes these programs are funded by others, so you can't just move the money around. But I would suggest that even spending money on staff to accep this money and manage it isn't the best use of time and money for a City -- especially one like Detroit.

A lot of people are down on Bing for not being superman here and detecting malfeasance. What's not understood in the shear volume of these programs. Its not easy accepting federal/state/other money and spending it wisely. And the results are so hard to measure. In this case, we're lucky. The number of people served was easy to measure.