Packard Plant Demo

[Wheels]

Maybe they should film Transformers 4 there and have the end of the world 2012 war to end all wars there. They could blow the entire complex and let it go away in a blaze of glory.

[313rd]

I'm guessing that once torn down it will be used as the staging and field office area for the I94 Expansion project. All the existing concrete will be reused in the new roadways, preserving the past in the future.

[WaCoTS]

Freep update:

Carlomusto said Friday that he expects to spend the next 45 days conducting “due diligence” to determine how much scrap metal is in the property. He said that will tell him whether “the juice is worth the squeeze.”

+ this

Two years ago, Karla Henderson, group executive for planning and facilities for the city, estimated it would cost $20 million to demolish the building and do environmental cleanup on the site.

= I tole you mang!

[rb336]

Maybe they should film Transformers 4 there and have the end of the world 2012 war to end all wars there. They could blow the entire complex and let it go away in a blaze of glory.

Now THAT would be a good use of the property. at the end of it, they could show one lone structure still standing...the Robocop statue!

[rb336]

I'm with those who find that place sensational and awe-inspiring. Sure it has become hackneyed by scads of visitors taking zillions of picture. I blame that more on the rise of cheap digital photography than anything else. But it is still and always will be incredibly spectacular. There is absolutely nothing like it and that gives it value alone.

One part of me wishes it could stay and crumble to the elements and the scrapers as a giant lesson in economics and change. Perhaps a ruins park in the vision of Camilo Vergara.

ok, I've never heard of Vergara' idea, so I had to look it up [[thanks, Lowell, for the opportunity to educate myself). This is what the man said:
"We could transform the nearly 100 troubled buildings into a grand national historic park of play and wonder, an urban Monument Valley.... Midwestern prairie would be allowed to invade from the north. Trees, vines, and wildflowers would grow on roofs and out of windows; goats and wild animals—squirrels, possum, bats, owls, ravens, snakes and insects—would live in the empty behemoths, adding their calls, hoots and screeches to the smell of rotten leaves and animal droppings."

there was something about an American Acropolis in there as well. I have embraced our ruins - and hate the phrase "ruin porn." The ruins are spectacular, the MCD is the equal, in my eyes, of the Coliseum. These are buildings that made Detroit [[and the US) such a power in the 20th century. I'd love to see them stabilized and maintained as monuments to past glories.

[Johnnny5]

there are tons and tons of iron reinforcement in the concrete, but that has to be laboriously separated out. the cost effectiveness is much lower than scrapping regular clean iron.

otherwise, you'd see scrappers taking rebar....but you DONT see scrappers taking rebar, do you? it is the lowest value of all scrap, and at this point that is the majority of what is left on site.

Scrappers don't have the access to the heavy equipment required to remove the largest and most valuable sections of the complex. I'm not suggesting that they are going to harvest every scrap of rebar in the concrete. They're much more likely to target the most valuable buildings first and leave the rest standing. Give it about a year and they'll "Run into financial difficulties" and conveniently enough it will happen just about the time the last loaded truck is headed to the scrap yard.

There's currently a 300K tax lien on the property. If Christini can't even fork over the back taxes how does he expect to pay the comically underestimated 6 million dollar cost for the cleanup?

"I am going to demolish the building," Cristini said. "It's unsafe, and it's got to come down. I don't want anybody to get hurt. I am just trying to do the right and responsible thing."

Really? So you care about people getting hurt now, but didn't for all the other years you claimed to own the place, but didn't secure it?

Bullshit! Christini is a lowlife, ex felon and he's not doing this for the good of the community. Also, the property is not worth the amount of money that would be required for a complete cleanup, so he's definitely not doing it as an investment.

The only option left is that he has an ulterior motive, and given his reputation I'm assuming it's to cash in on what's left and leave Detroit with an even larger liability.

[Occurrence]

Something seems odd about this whole thing. Why would this guy spend millions to demolish the place? If he owes that much in back taxes, why not just let the city/state seize the property and let them pay for the demolition?

[Junkin4Life]

i think Parts Galore would be on that site after demolition

[GUSHI]

40 acre parcel in the city of Detroit, owned by 1 person, it's gota b worth something,

[Packman41]

40 acre parcel in the city of Detroit, owned by 1 person, it's gota b worth something,

If land was so valuable, then why are 40+ square MILES vacant in the CofD. If land was so valuable, then why does every new development require a fistful of sudsidies and tax breaks to get done?

Cristini is no boy scout and not a friend of mine, but IIRC he had 90+ tenants in the Packard Plant before the CofD decided to use the DPD gang squad to forcibly remove all of the tenants and then they started to take sections of the building down. They took his property by force.

And then Cristini sued and won in court. He was supposed to get a large settlement - rumor was 7 figures. But, then the CofD appealed and lost. They appealed and lost again. Now Cristini is out of jail and I guess looking for that rumored settlement.

[izzyindetroit]

These ruins are a blight on the neighborhood, they need to tear them down!

The more I think about it, the more I disagree with tearing the Packard down. While many see no value in the site, I believe the site just isn't marketed right. Everyone I know or have talked to has either been in the building or is interested in going in the building. What's so wrong with walling off the property, setting up a turnstile and charging everyone $10 for admission? Pop up some eateries, souvenir shops, and informational kiosks/booths then market the fuck outta it. End result would be a legitimate museum/outdoor park/tourist trap symbolizing the great rise and fall of the American Capitalist Industrial Dream.

-profit $

[Lowell]

Packman41 I agree with you but there is one slight difference, clear title to 40 contiguous acres with no little hold out-islands amid it would give it much added value. I doubt if there is anything that large in the rest of the 40 square miles of scattered abandoned parcels.

The real question is whether the plot, demolished and remediated, could be sold for more that the cost to get it to that point. Still, one could make money by convincing investors that it could be a worthwhile project. He could pay himself up front and maybe walk off with a few million no matter what happened. Mitt Romney's company took over companies that in the end failed but he still got paid, often very well. Once the money gets in motion, someone ends up it and others get stuck. And it is all legal.

[Occurrence]

These ruins are a blight on the neighborhood, they need to tear them down!

The more I think about it, the more I disagree with tearing the Packard down. While many see no value in the site, I believe the site just isn't marketed right. Everyone I know or have talked to has either been in the building or is interested in going in the building. What's so wrong with walling off the property, setting up a turnstile and charging everyone $10 for admission? Pop up some eateries, souvenir shops, and informational kiosks/booths then market the fuck outta it. End result would be a legitimate museum/outdoor park/tourist trap symbolizing the great rise and fall of the American Capitalist Industrial Dream.

-profit $

That couldn't work in America. The country is too "wussified". Too many lawyers, laws, buildings codes, and potential lawsuits.

[Richard]

On one hand it is 37 acres located next to one of the largest rail yards in the city with easy freeway access which in some cases would make it an ideal location but on the other hand you have Areo which is already in play and would surpass needs in that seneriao ,not forgetting GE and the gov pet project so anything placed there would have gov support and backing from GE capitial .

Detroit is a city run by politics,personal vendettas,and egos which equals john q public be dammed.

Big funding comes from hedge funds and there are to many examples with greater returns in other cities , gov funding now is section eight or vet related , so no funding.

Everybody in the city and state hates that property for whatever reason so bad that they would pass by somebody starving in the street to ensure that things remain as is.

Politics and karma are strange bedfellows and maybe sometimes it is necessary to use one to force the other in the interest of the greater good.Right or wrong is an debate in its self but I would guess that the man looking for a job to feed his family could really care less.

So just maybe the city has decided that it is time to apply some pressure as many that have chosen in the past to look out for self interest are falling by the wayside it starts to become a more level playing field,sometimes others decide to use stall tactics and threats to keep the playing field in their home court.

Strange thoughts we have sometimes eh.

[Wheels]

Maybe they plan on mining graffitti and selling it as artwork.

This piece by Banksy was estimated at $100,000.00

http://detroit.curbed.com/archives/2...nt-is-back.php

[East Detroit]

City Council should require before approval of demo that metal scrap monies be put into escrow until the time at which all demolition and debris removal is complete.

[izzyindetroit]

That couldn't work in America. The country is too "wussified". Too many lawyers, laws, buildings codes, and potential lawsuits.

Liability waiver.

[Wheels]

Liability waiver.

Try telling that to the E.P.A. and OSHA

[Packman41]

Packman41 I agree with you but there is one slight difference, clear title to 40 contiguous acres with no little hold out-islands amid it would give it much added value. I doubt if there is anything that large in the rest of the 40 square miles of scattered abandoned parcels.

The real question is whether the plot, demolished and remediated, could be sold for more that the cost to get it to that point.

Hello Lowell:

There is ample supply of vacant industrial land, with rail and near expressways all over metro Detroit and Michigan. The 40 acres at the Packard Plant is just another drop in the bucket.

Maybe you’ve heard of RACER Trust. It was created by the U.S. Bankruptcy Court to clean up and sell properties owned by GM before its 2009 bankruptcy. The US taxpayers have kicked in $500 million so far to pay for environmental cleanup. And since the properties are owned by the “Old GM” the “New GM” will not have to repay the US taxpayers.

Take a look at their website and click onto the Available Properties in Michigan. http://racertrust.org/Properties/Property_List#mi You will have to scroll down a bit [[the list is long) to get to Pontiac or Wayne county.

Let me give you an example. This is the former Truck Assembly Plant at Centerpoint it was built in the mid 1990s: http://www.racertrust.org/Properties..._Assembly_1196 It contain 160+ acres, has multiple rail lines and is just off the I-75/Square Lake Rd exit.

It is true that it was sold. I was told a scrap metal company purchased it for the value of the steel, copper, etc. They are tearing it down now and it should be leveled by the end of the month at the rate they are going. It has limited environmental issues as it was built only 20 years ago. Once the demo is completed the owner will put it on the market as vacant land and completely ready for redevelopment. Just more inventory to compete against the Packard Plant.

But that is not the whole story. Spend a couple of minutes and look at the number of properties RACER Trust has available around their Centerpoint campus or around metro Detroit area, let alone the state of Michigan. How many have SOLD or UNDER CONTRCT in the list? Damn few.

If land in the metro area was so desirable, then the hedge/vulture funds that you mention woul have been all over this and you would see more SOLD signs. My personal opinion is that the Packard site will sell, but only after RACER sells all of their properties first.

[mauser]

http://www.detroitfunk.com/?p=8845

The announcement of the demolition in the newspapers and on television has caused a flood of people coming to walk through etc. Dozens and dozens at a time. Crazy.

[mikeg19]

http://www.detroitfunk.com/?p=8845

The announcement of the demolition in the newspapers and on television has caused a flood of people coming to walk through etc. Dozens and dozens at a time. Crazy.

I'll probably be one of them. I've never seen the complex in person. Probably about time I take a look at it before it's gone. I don't know if I'll be adventurous enough to go through the place, but definitely take a drive by it.

[Occurrence]

The place is going to be standing for a long while still. It's funny how everyone is rushing to the plant.

This owner can't even pay $35,000 to the EPA. Whatever fence he plans on putting up will probably be torn up within a week.

[Traxus]

I was there today, and I have never seen so many people. I expected to see more than usual but this was over the top. I'd guess around 200 came through during the 4 or 5 hours I was there.

I came to shoot the winters ravages on the place, but the light was so mediocre and the crowd so thick that I just ended up taking photos of people taking mediocre photos. A very bizzare day.

[Brian1979]

Pretty crazy that I drove right by the plant when I was in Detroit yesterday, at that time I knew nothing of it being demolished. The sign going over Grand Blvd reading, "MOTOR CITY INDUSTRIAL PARK" is pretty much completely gone now.

[313WX]

The main question is when they demolish this thing, have they considered how big of a health hazard it would present to that entire area [[and by "area", I mean several miles in each each). There's no telling what type of deadly substances are in that building that these demolishers who live nowhere near the surrounding areas will release into the area as they demolish this thing.

Furthermore, what development does one seriously expect to take place on this land? It's polluted industrial land in a city that's essentially considered undevelopable/uninvestable outside of Downtown.