Bing tells troubled city: 'Let's stop the madness'

**firstandten** · February-28-12, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

Think now - who isn't doing their jobs? I think its the judges and juries that are letting the people off with slaps on their hands after the police have done their jobs arresting. Pretty soon you would get blase about arresting too if the perpetrators you arrest are walking away.

I have seen it happen. I was on two juries that would not convict men who were clearly dealing drugs. The first had a guy in the jury room reading the Bible to us, the passage about forgiving "70 times 70." The ladies would not convict. The second had a jury worried about the penalty law that requires life in prison for relatively low level of dealing. Even though instructed not to consider that, they would not convict to send one of their own away for life.

Look at th judges lately: Black women who appear to spend a lot of time at the spa and the beauty salon. They have big fur coats and bad attitudes. They are often late to court and they defer to the community that thinks their boys are always good boys. That's how they keep their jobs.

Our courts share a lot of blame for the culture we find ourselves in.

Maybe with the judges, but my experience with juries was quite a bit different. On the two criminal cases I have been on and we are talking Wayne county, both men were found guilty and one got life, and absolutely the right decision was made on both.

However there is a big difference between giving someone life for murder [[which was the case I was on) and giving someone life for low level drug dealing, and the women may have a strong argument for doing what they did.

All in all I think juries take there job seriously and in most cases they do the right thing.

**dmike76** · February-28-12, 02:33 PM

I hate when people throw 'God Forgives' as an excuse to get out of punishment. The number one perpetrator of that is.....KWAME. Ugh. It drives me nuts. 'God has forgiven me'. How does he know? Oh....he doesn't. He just uses it as a campaigning/lack of accountability tool. I will be so glad when he ends up in the federal clink.

**Wesley Mouch** · February-28-12, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by firstandten

Maybe with the judges, but my experience with juries was quite a bit different. On the two criminal cases I have been on and we are talking Wayne county, both men were found guilty and one got life, and absolutely the right decision was made on both.

However there is a big difference between giving someone life for murder [[which was the case I was on) and giving someone life for low level drug dealing, and the women may have a strong argument for doing what they did.

All in all I think juries take there job seriously and in most cases they do the right thing.

Typical logical fallacy.

Yes, there are idiot judges in Detroit. [[And frankly everywhere. Think stereotypical southern corrupt, racist judge of the 60's.)

Its important to note however, that justice is a very broad concept. We have a system where the occasional mistake is made. And fortunately, its almost always [[but not always) in letting the guilty go free. This helps protect the innocent who might otherwise be caught up in the net.

Its not perfect. But I've seen the Detroit/Wayne County system up close. And I've seen some very ugly things. But overall 'firstandten' is right. Most everyone takes their job seriously and does the right thing.

But there are mistakes.

**detroitsgwenivere** · February-28-12, 02:36 PM

^^The "war on drugs" seems to convolute everything about our system of due process. I hold that if drug enforcement laws changed, the way metro areas police themselves would also change, freeing up police to do what we actually pay them to do: Get the most dangerous of us off the street. And I believe it would greatly improve the relationship the community has with the police, helping to turn the "no snitching" wall into more of a screen, and allowing judges and prosecutors to feel more confident about applying the appropriate sentences to those who end up in front of them.

**dmike76** · February-28-12, 02:55 PM

You know, the snitching thing is another problem. People whine that Bing, the police, and other officials don't do enough to protect our children, but when the cops do show up, no one wants to snitch. Sickening. A majority of the time, the police are not the enemy. If people want to minimize crime, WORK WITH THE POLICE! Bing can put as many cops out there as he can but they can't help if the victims don't.

**MidTownMs** · February-28-12, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by dmike76

I agree about the curfew, but.....isn't the parents' job to reign their kids in and make sure they're home at night? Obviously, kids don't listen and sneak out blah blah blah....I would like to see cops enforcing a curfew but man, they are so busy chasing down murderers and thieves. I just don't know if they have the resources. I still think it's on the parents. They are the first line of defense.

Everybody keeps talking about parents. Where are all these parents? The average age of a male living [[not passing through but living) in a Detroit household is 14. In some Detroit area zip codes 95% of the homes are headed by a single female. While waiting for a DHS clearance a few days ago I met 28 year old grandmother, with her 14year old daughter who was holding her 9 month old baby. Again...Where are all these parents Bing and Godbee keep talking about???? Do they know something I don't know?

**internet_pseudopod** · February-28-12, 03:50 PM

I don't care about mayor Bing's opinions on parenthood and personal responsibility. Since he is a representative of the government I want him to tell me what resources of government he can marshal to affect the situation. I want to hear a progress report on the plan that I hear every year to move cops from the desk to the streets. I would also like to hear about their fitness for that duty. I would like to hear about him convening with other regional mayors about appealing for increased funding from state and federal sources because a Detroit that only serves as an incubator for crime is harmful to everyone from Campus Martius to 50 mile. I would like to see that same association of regional mayors put pressure on the state and the MDOC so that things like this and this don't happen again. In the mean time, I would like to hear about some assistance from the Wayne County Sheriff's Dept and the Michigan State police in patrolling some of the worst areas.

The thing that really sticks in my mind is that apparently the state has been very concerned with the Detroit school system. Every other year they want to take the school system over. DPD has been failing at the war on crime for decades yet the state doesn't want to take them over. Why? I have some ideas, but nothing really concrete. Maybe you guys know more.

**dmike76** · February-28-12, 03:52 PM

That is exactly my point from my earlier post. Stop popping out kids when you can't afford them or aren't prepared to teach them. Stop making excuses for stupid behavior. Stop saying that it's everyone else's fault. It is not Bing's job to raise people to be responsible. Safety in the city would be a lot better with a combination of more police AND people that just didn't commit crime. Morals and values.

**dmike76** · February-28-12, 03:55 PM

The thing that really sticks in my mind is that apparently the state has been very concerned with the Detroit school system. Every other year they want to take the school system over. DPD has been failing at the war on crime for decades yet the state doesn't want to take them over. Why? I have some ideas, but nothing really concrete. Maybe you guys know more.[/QUOTE]

But wait....no one in the city WANTS the State to take over. Thousands of people in the neighbohoods scream 'We don want outside help! WE ARE DETROIT! We don't need anyone's help!' In the meantime the same people that beat that drum don't do one thing to help themselves, their children, or their neighbors.

**SWMAP** · February-28-12, 03:55 PM

And I say that the DPD is not the failing organization. Blame the courts,; blame the parole system and the prison system for early outs and poor rehabilitation

**dmike76** · February-28-12, 04:01 PM

I do think that city gov't has the responsibility of making some resources available to help parents and kids with mentoring, etc. I think it's a great idea to put more state and county cops in the D. If the D wants to improve, they need to entice more people that care to live there, and adding more police presence is huge for that.

**Wesley Mouch** · February-28-12, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by dmike76

The thing that really sticks in my mind is that apparently the state has been very concerned with the Detroit school system. Every other year they want to take the school system over. DPD has been failing at the war on crime for decades yet the state doesn't want to take them over. Why? I have some ideas, but nothing really concrete. Maybe you guys know more.

But wait....no one in the city WANTS the State to take over. Thousands of people in the neighbohoods scream 'We don want outside help! WE ARE DETROIT! We don't need anyone's help!' In the meantime the same people that beat that drum don't do one thing to help themselves, their children, or their neighbors.

This is nothing but politics.

The voices against outside intervention in Detroit are those protecting their own power. Contractors, politicians, unions, employees. They will lose if the city and schools stop being 'jobs factories'.

Don't mistake the screaming of a few who stand to lose for the voice of the majority.

I firmly believe the majority of Detroiters want good schools and good policing.

Reform is always a threat to those in power. Remember that.

**Gistok** · February-28-12, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by poobert

It's just too much. I'm not only completely ready to give up on Detroit but on this country. My family lives in Europe and I am thinking of joining them. They don't slaughter each other over there and you don't have to live in fear of your life when you live in a city. They also have self-respect and manners and decency even though by and large their living standards are far below ours.

If you mean that in Europe they don't have a TV in every room... or [[God forbid) their parents didn't buy their kids an X-Box.... or that they have to buy their food daily to prepare since their refrigerators aren't the size of a minibus and that they pay a higher rate of taxes to keep their streets nice, their infrastructure working and the general health of the people in order.... then yes their standards are lower than ours.

But their quality of life issues are in many ways much improved over ours [[in America).

Whenever I've visited relatives in Europe, I get depressed when I return and see the shabby infrastructure that we've "lowered the bar" to, in order so that we can get to keep more of our own money. Money is not happiness... and we're certainly not the "richest" country in the world in terms of happiness....

**firstandten** · February-28-12, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by dmike76

I agree about the curfew, but.....isn't the parents' job to reign their kids in and make sure they're home at night? Obviously, kids don't listen and sneak out blah blah blah....I would like to see cops enforcing a curfew but man, they are so busy chasing down murderers and thieves. I just don't know if they have the resources. I still think it's on the parents. They are the first line of defense.

Agreed, but kids who are out breaking curfew are also the ones hanging out at the party store or gas station sometimes carjacking and holding up people. Or sometimes walking the hood looking for houses to break in to. I'm not really referring to the kids who sneak out and go to the store to buy some pop and chips. Police really need to find the resources to do these sort of things and thats what I mean by mayorial leadership.

Buy American · February-28-12, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by dmike76

I hate when people throw 'God Forgives' as an excuse to get out of punishment. The number one perpetrator of that is.....KWAME. Ugh. It drives me nuts. 'God has forgiven me'. How does he know? Oh....he doesn't. He just uses it as a campaigning/lack of accountability tool. I will be so glad when he ends up in the federal clink.

thug KK is big on throwing out the "cards"...first it was the race card, now it's the God card. I'm sure God has forgiven him, after all, God is all forgiving; but what about all the citizens of Detroit whom he raped and pillaged and all the friends and family of thug KK who stole from the citizens of Detroit...have they forgiven him/them? He hides behind the bible and the store front pastors and the entire time he's still stealing and living high in Texas and the taxpayers are still paying for his years as Mayor.

**Danny** · February-28-12, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Change the word 'give' to 'create', and we agree. All the things you list are impossible to 'give'. They can only be 'created'.

The challenge is how.

I don't believe you can create things by taking them from others and 'giving' them to the needy. In fact, that creates dependency -- the most destructive force against our cities.

I put the word give cause money that is flowing to public services is an illusion.

**socks_mahoney** · February-28-12, 07:00 PM

Nothing, Absolutely Nothing, is going to change this situation except for jobs. People are violent because they have no sense of hope or betterment. Look at our neighborhoods! Everyone is blaming the kids, but look at the environment we are bringing them up in. If all you know is a world thats damn near looking apocalyptic, well then that's how you're going to act too.

Private sector or public, it don't matter. What we need is a massive public works program to upgrade our infrastructure, insulate our homes to save energy, add teachers to the schools, and build alternative energy [[turbines and solar panels). This will keep our children [[and everyone) healthier and our young adults gainfully employed. Jobs jobs jobs. That's all it is. People don't have time for this nonsense when they are employed in a worthwhile endeavor.

SteveJ · February-28-12, 07:32 PM

Its to the point where you just need to move everyone and start a new city. Start building from the the East Side and go west. Right now the city is left with senior citizens and young ghetto trash who take pride in having no education, no skills, 10 kids with 10 different baby mamas, and being uncivilized. Jobs aren't going to do anything because most of them can't even read above a 2nd grade level.

**Detroit Stylin** · February-28-12, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by SteveJ

Its to the point where you just need to move everyone and start a new city. Start building from the the East Side and go west. Right now the city is left with senior citizens and young ghetto trash who take pride in having no education, no skills, 10 kids with 10 different baby mamas, and being uncivilized. Jobs aren't going to do anything because most of them can't even read above a 2nd grade level.

Gee....so everyone in the ghetto is trash...I wonder what you see when you describe those people....in particular the ones in the City of Detroit...

**internet_pseudopod** · February-28-12, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

And I say that the DPD is not the failing organization. Blame the courts,; blame the parole system and the prison system for early outs and poor rehabilitation

I'm sure they try hard but in the area of public opinion over the last 50 or so years the DPD has gone from racist to apathetic/ineffectual to now just plain absent. Some of those criticisms aren't always fair but that is how people see things. DPD needs to create programs that work and engage the community.

**Danny** · February-28-12, 08:18 PM

If Detroit didn't have 80% black people who would fill the void? White people, Mexican/Hispanic, Asians, Chaldeans, Hmongs, Koreans, etc. Those race of people can have the power to change its city munipal services and name public building after famous legendary heroes in their time. Just like black folks did after they rule Detroit after 1975.

I once grew up in Detroit for 29 years. I have seen how it transformed from a neighborhood where there was a Ward's Federals, Crowleys and Hudson's and other mom and pop retail in every corner into a DEAD [[C) KRAK HEAD community by the new millenium. Some urban know-it-alls figure our why Detroit crash and burned and its remaining people are suffering under its doom and gloom dark ages while the suburbs runs like an up and coming Islamic golden ages. I miss my friends on the northwest side. Some of them are problably in the gang, doing criminal things, becoming street pharmacists, taking drugs, making babies and hanging out in liquor stores. Others escape out of state or just plain move to the golden suburbs. Some of my family and friends lost their homes through forclosures or house fires. Most of them even lost their jobs.

So get used to this doom and gloom Detroiters. If you want public services GET IT YOURSELF! Fix your ghettohoods and turn it to real neighborhoods, become your police force, create block clubs and rec centers, keep your kids in school so they get a decent "American Dream" education. Save Detroit by fixing it. Don't cry to KING BING and your black leaders about your whining.

**Detroitgayhistoryguy** · February-28-12, 08:50 PM

I agree that they should enforce the curfew for those under 18 more, start giving tickets to parents when their children are found out on the streets after 11 p.m. When I was growing up, there was no way I could be out until 2 a.m. I see teenagers out walking around in Detroit at 3-4 in the morning. As for chief Godbee, I really don't think he is doing nearly as good a job as Warren Evans was doing. Evans had "Teams" running around the city targeting problem areas, actually preventing crime rather than showing up 30-45 minutes after a 911 call to take a report.

**firstandten** · February-28-12, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitgayhistoryguy

I agree that they should enforce the curfew for those under 18 more, start giving tickets to parents when their children are found out on the streets after 11 p.m. When I was growing up, there was no way I could be out until 2 a.m. I see teenagers out walking around in Detroit at 3-4 in the morning. As for chief Godbee, I really don't think he is doing nearly as good a job as Warren Evans was doing. Evans had "Teams" running around the city targeting problem areas, actually preventing crime rather than showing up 30-45 minutes after a 911 call to take a report.

Bing's management style will not allow a guy like Evans on his team. Our loss

**Detroitgayhistoryguy** · February-28-12, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by firstandten

Bing's management style will not allow a guy like Evans on his team. Our loss

I agree, aggressive policing is what we need. It is not popular with some African Americans. Maybe, the funerals of children will make more of them change their minds, I hope.

Buy American · February-28-12, 09:14 PM

Warren Evans was a no nonsense Police Chief but he liked the camera too much. He was getting things done though, I will say that. Godbee is a nice guy but not doing the job and is a talking head like Bing.

The police are not lawmakers, they are not confidants, they are not social workers. They are there to protect and serve the community, to enforce the laws of the City of Detroit, the State of Michigan and the U.S.A. They can be taught how to talk to people correctly, how to defend themselves, how to write tickets, chase a thug, shoot a thug, arrest a thug...but they are not there to eliminate the cultural problem that is happening in Detroit. They can't teach civility and they can't teach a young man or young woman how to be a human being, that is supposed to be taught by mom and dad.

As I have said before, a curfew with zero tolerance should be implemented in Detroit. The public will yell and scream that the police are picking on their children and violating their rights, but I think it would curb some of the random murders that is going on.