Shoot-em-up Lifestyle Claims Another Small Child

**Scottathew** · February-27-12, 09:05 AM

The weird thing is that through all the violence, through all the dead men, women, and children that the "f*ck the police" and "don't snitch" attitudes still prevail.

Like Ravine said, I don't have any idea how to address this situation.

Public education is already free. A 50% high school graduation rate is unfathomable.

One of the huge issues is poor folks not having enough resources, then making decisions that lead to even less resources, like having children or addictions.

More welfare isn't the answer.

Buy American · February-27-12, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by 48091

The weird thing is that through all the violence, through all the dead men, women, and children that the "f*ck the police" and "don't snitch" attitudes still prevail.

Like Ravine said, I don't have any idea how to address this situation.

Public education is already free. A 50% high school graduation rate is unfathomable.

One of the huge issues is poor folks not having enough resources, then making decisions that lead to even less resources, like having children or addictions.

More welfare isn't the answer.

I have to disagree with your statement that I highlighted above. Poor folks have more resources than a family making $1 more than they should to qualify for government aid. There is food stamps, Bridge cards, welfare, social security for kids with disabilities, free cell phones, food banks, help with bills, etc. The problem is that these poor folks take advantage of the system, they work very hard at trying to beat the system [[I'm being honest here and anyone who would say otherwise, please don't comment to me about this). If these so called poor folks went out and put their efforts into getting an education, getting off of drugs or booze, keeping their kids off the streets, keeping their home clean and neat and the outside trash free, things would change for the better. When you don't care about your neighbor, you only care about where your next fix is, there is no hope.
Maybe Marshall Law would be the answer. Maybe laws allowing the police to sweep neighborhood homes and areas and confiscate unlicensed weapons would be the answer. More jails and better, stronger laws is certainly the answer.
This morning I wake up and hear on the news that two people are found tied up with wire, on fire, dead. A 6 year old boy is in critical condition at the hospital with multiple bullet wounds that happened during a "so called" car jacking. Isn't it about time to forget about infringing on the rights of these thugs and just go round them up, stick their a$$ in jail. Watch the Let It Rip from Fox 2 about stopping the violence in Detroit and listen and watch the thugs that Charlie Langdon interviewed...they are expressionless, mindless, cruel in their intent, threatening. They are like unfeeling robots just looking to kill someone, anyone, child or adult....

**Zacha341** · February-27-12, 10:54 AM

I watched those short interviews from street and the lack of empathy was unquestionable. Having worked with teens it was a challenge sometimes to get behind the wall they put, up but this was beyond that... it's like a 'light' has gone off...

And that's too young be so angst and desolate in ones mind and spirit. The bad economy may be the 'sibling' of this kind of thing, but not the root cause. It's something deeper...

Originally Posted by Buy American

Watch the Let It Rip from Fox 2 about stopping the violence in Detroit and listen and watch the thugs that Charlie Langdon interviewed...they are expressionless, mindless, cruel in their intent, threatening. They are like unfeeling robots just looking to kill someone, anyone, child or adult....

**rjk** · February-27-12, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by black gold man

Another kid takes a bullet. Six year old shot carjacking warren and alter.

Two 15 year olds have been arrested in that case.
In another case a woman was found shot and killed this morning and her 14 year old son was arrested. Apparently the shooting followed an argument.

**7miledog** · February-27-12, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by Buy American

the Let It Rip from Fox 2 about stopping the violence in Detroit and listen and watch the thugs that Charlie Langdon interviewed...they are expressionless, mindless, cruel in their intent, threatening. They are like unfeeling robots just looking to kill someone, anyone, child or adult....

Do you have a link to the Let It Rip segment that you are referring to? I was only able to find the one with Detroit 300 in studio. Thanks

**PlymouthRes** · February-27-12, 12:45 PM

You have posted over 1200 times on here and I have read quite a few of your posts. The comments I made in regard to you were about the contents of a lot of those posts. In a sense, I do kind of know you from what you post, and I am pretty sure that you would agree with that simple explaination in regard to other posters here, too..

As far a the DFD comment is concerned, I was alluding to the fact that I am sure with all of the years you worked in the city, and had seen the things that you had, your perspective on things certainly had been formed by what you actually experienced as opposed to others who did not experience those horrors themselves. My brief 18 months of experience with EMS helped to form my opinions as well, just not to the depth that I felt a 30 year career would have provided. None the less, what I saw and experienced convinced me that I would not be cut-out to do that particular job for any lenght of time, and I pursed other opportunities in my career path.

I do not believe that you are a racist per say, and I never called you that, so you really can't link that statement to me as you could with those that have referred to you as that opely on this forum. There is a very fine line between racism and realism, and one is often confused with the other. Happens to me all the time.

Lastly, I believe that the passion you have for this city fuels your desire to write like you do, but sometimes some of the things you write are construed as "angry" rather than "righteous indignation", again, a very fine line. The one common thing that we both agree on is that this city has some major problems which are being exacberated by these sensless killings that seem to have no end and seem to multiply every day.

My entire meaning in all of this is that we should not abandon the children of the dis-enfrachised just because the adults are out of control. It is not about race, it is about civility and respect, something that is sorely lacking in this and other troubled cities all over the country.

**313WX** · February-27-12, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by 7miledog

Do you have a link to the Let It Rip segment that you are referring to? I was only able to find the one with Detroit 300 in studio. Thanks

You have to watch the entire segment in that link [[all 3 embeded videos).

**Detroitgayhistoryguy** · February-27-12, 02:24 PM

I miss Warren Evans, violent crime was going down when he was police chief. I've given this new guy a chance, but I'm not impressed. I thought he was actually doing something with his task forces going out and targeting problem areas. I think the unfortunate shooting of that little girl during a raid was just a fluke accident that I think would have happened even if there were not cameras there.

**7miledog** · February-27-12, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

You have to watch the entire segment in that link [[all 3 embeded videos).

Got it, thanks.

Frankly, with the news today of the arrest of two 15 year-olds on suspicion of the attempted car-jacking which resulted in the shooting of a 6 year old and the 14 year-old who was arrested for the murder of his mother, I firmly believe that the National Guard must be called in for assistance. They can act as a visible deterrent to crime, as most crimes are ones of opportunity, and respond to calls for assistance, thereby freeing up DPD officers to conduct traditional police work such as investigating crimes, etc. Put them on street corners with M16s, because, unfortunately, that is the only thing these young punks understand: force.

**stromberg2** · February-27-12, 03:00 PM

Bravo, Res, Bravo!!

Stromberg2

**PlymouthRes** · February-27-12, 03:18 PM

Thanks for the encouragement, Stromberg. This madness must come to an end before more innocents die. I hope to see it end in my lifetime.

The Guard is not the answer, though. That happened once before and that event is what percipiteted what is occuring now. Perhaps an increase in police is the answer, but the Guard is a bit too extreme, IMO.

Buy American · February-27-12, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by 7miledog

Do you have a link to the Let It Rip segment that you are referring to? I was only able to find the one with Detroit 300 in studio. Thanks

Here is the link:
http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news...ip-20120222-ms

There are three videos on this Let It Rip segment, it's the second video.

**7miledog** · February-27-12, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by PlymouthRes

The Guard is not the answer, though. That happened once before and that event is what percipiteted what is occuring now. Perhaps an increase in police is the answer, but the Guard is a bit too extreme, IMO.

While I would generally agree that calling in the Guard, which I believe would require the institution of Martial Law, would not be the answer, I believe that things are simply too far gone for any other resolution. In theory, an increased police presence would be ideal, but where would the money come from? A Guard presence, in theory, would come from State funds [[a stretch still, but the State is far better off financially than the city). These are seriously drastic times, which, unfortunately, require drastic resolution.

I think the assertion that the Guard's presence following the '67 riots was what precipitated the current situation is too simplistic, as well. Today's situation has nothing to do with the grievances of those who participated in the '67 riots, nor of the Guard's response. Today's problem is, frankly, a complete and utter breakdown in a portion of the population who, for whatever reason, are not connected to the rest of society. Any attempts, while necessary, to reconnect them to society, are simply too far long term to make an impact on the very survival of the city I love. Seriously, the people who are committing these crimes are killing a piece of the city with every killing of a human. It is a tragedy. It is unacceptable on every level. It must be stopped. Now. The ONLY issue that matters in Detroit right now is public safety. Education, taxes, public transportation, economic development....none of that matters if people don't feel, or are not actually, safe. Period.

**PlymouthRes** · February-27-12, 07:39 PM

Yes, 'Dog, they would have to enact Martial Law in order to call in the Guard, as they are a Federally driven organization vs. a State institution.

My statement, in reference to the riots, was very simplistic, but it would take an entire day to provide the comparisions that I was referring to, and, as you said, requires a complex solution reather than a basic premise as I described. I remember the chaos that was created when they were called in the last time, and I simply thought that it would devole into that again based on the logic that exists today. Many in the white and black community will never forget or forgive what occured during those years, even to this day.

My fear with doing that is that the Guard units are actually Army Reserve units, and they would have to undergo special training to undertake Martial Law without invoking an all-out Army type operation. Perhaps in this particular case, that is what is needed though. This may take precious time that we don't have, as we need a solution to this mess right now, not three months from now.

I also see a situation evolving kind of like in Syria if that happens, with the thugs ganging together to fight that force. I fear that many "collateral" civilians would be caught in the cross fire that would develop, and I'm not sure that even that type of action wopuld quell the situation and may actually add to the fear and become quickly chaotic.

Pehaps augmenting the current police force temporarily, using combined elements of State Troopers, Sheriffs and other local police agencies would work as they could develop "big four" type assualt teams would work , too. They would be a bit more low-keyed and as small teams could cover various areas that are particularly dangerous, moving from one area to another quickly until the thugs know that they won't get very far if they try anything.

I really don't know, but these kids deserve better than their current situations are providing them, that's for sure.

**detroitsgwenivere** · February-27-12, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by bartock

like those nazi-like Jewish school upbringings? Funny you attribute an apparent racist upbringing to a religion the nazis hated.

Funny you can't decipher between a comparative descriptive and perceived anti-religious name calling. And I certainly never mentioned having a racist upbringing unless my family being German automatically qualifies me as such

Yes you are. Don't disguise it. Good for you. Pat, pat.

Wow, that's so cool. So "real".

Sound familiiar?

Back to above again.

Well at least I'm trying to offer up a solution. With your attitude, it's obvious which side of the equation you're on.

I bet you're one of those guys who yells at kids from his window to "hersh that racket" when they play games outside instead of joining a gang.

Buy American · February-27-12, 09:29 PM

A 10 PM curfew would be one suggestion with zero tolerance. Kid goes to jail, parents pay a hefty fine to get them out. I know some of these parents don't have a pot to pi$$ in but if you hit someone in the pocketbook once in a awhile, they may take note. If they can't pay, keep the kid in for 5 - 10 days and see if it doesn't put the fear of God in them. Get the S.T.R.E.S.S. unit up and running again. Sweep neighborhoods where known thugs hang out, change search laws to give authorities more leverage to do their jobs. Put the fear back into the thugs and maybe they will go away....fat chance, right?

**firstandten** · February-27-12, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by Buy American

A 10 PM curfew would be one suggestion with zero tolerance. Kid goes to jail, parents pay a hefty fine to get them out. I know some of these parents don't have a pot to pi$$ in but if you hit someone in the pocketbook once in a awhile, they may take note. If they can't pay, keep the kid in for 5 - 10 days and see if it doesn't put the fear of God in them. Get the S.T.R.E.S.S. unit up and running again. Sweep neighborhoods where known thugs hang out, change search laws to give authorities more leverage to do their jobs. Put the fear back into the thugs and maybe they will go away....fat chance, right?

I think we can do this without Stress, There is too much chance of abuse. The last thing Detroit needs is another multi-million lawsuit by someone claiming entrapment.

I think the curfew is badly needed 10pm weekdays 12 on weekends. Once a parent gets popped a couple of times with fines, thats going to force the parent to be a parent. One area that I agree with BA with is that its fine to have the village help raise a child, but too many times these parents by there lack of parenting are forcing institutions like the schools to be de-facto parents to these kids. The schools are barely equipt to educate these children they are not designed to be surrogate parents. In addition coaches of age group sports are treated like glorified baby sitters by irresponsible parents.

Also on a similar concept as the broken window theory, when police see folks loitering at the party store or gas stations they need to hand out loitering tickets followed by a arrest warrant if they don't show up.

The gang squad needs to put more heat on these young gang bangers. They know who they are.

Of course its just a start but there are laws on the books that if the police would enforce them would go a long way to at least making a dent in the problem, without using a questionable police tactic like STRESS.

**runnerXT** · February-27-12, 10:18 PM

10 PM curfew would be one suggestion with zero tolerance. Kid goes to jail, parents pay a hefty fine to get them out. I know some of these parents don't have a pot to pi$$ in but if you hit someone in the pocketbook once in a awhile, they may take note. If they can't pay, keep the kid in for 5 - 10 days and see if it doesn't put the fear of God in them. Get the S.T.R.E.S.S. unit up and running again. Sweep neighborhoods where known thugs hang out, change search laws to give authorities more leverage to do their jobs. Put the fear back into the thugs and maybe they will go away....fat chance, right?

^I agree that if you do the crime you do the time, you screwed up here is the penalty, I agree with all that. But look at these sobering statistics. Is penalties and law enforcement the answer? Is that the only answer? Put fear into people,m sure that should be part of the solution. But when you look at incarceration rates and jail sentences in the US that should not be the only focus because obviously that is failing.

The United States has more people in jail than any other nation in the world by far. The largest country in population in the world is China at like 1.3 billion plus people and has 1/3 less people in numbers, not per capita, than the US has in jails/prisons. The country that comes closest to the US per capita is Russia and there incarceration rate is around 1/3 less than of the US.

To put it in other words the US acccounts for 25% of the world's people in jail. But yet we have one of the highest violant crimes rates in the world to where we need to look to the worst of third world countries to make us look good.

Some states now spend more on jail and prisons than education.

I say the United States has a warped sense of priorities and the policy of law order is failing. No matter your emotions to crime in the US something is terribly wrong here. The 'system' is not working and places the US at the bottom of countries for violant crime rates and easily at the top for incaration rates.

**DetroitTeacher** · February-27-12, 10:44 PM

I know some parents who would boot the kids out the door at about 5 minutes to 10 and watch the cops swoop in and pick the kids up...just for a break!

Originally Posted by Buy American

A 10 PM curfew would be one suggestion with zero tolerance. Kid goes to jail, parents pay a hefty fine to get them out. I know some of these parents don't have a pot to pi$$ in but if you hit someone in the pocketbook once in a awhile, they may take note. If they can't pay, keep the kid in for 5 - 10 days and see if it doesn't put the fear of God in them. Get the S.T.R.E.S.S. unit up and running again. Sweep neighborhoods where known thugs hang out, change search laws to give authorities more leverage to do their jobs. Put the fear back into the thugs and maybe they will go away....fat chance, right?

**Thames** · February-27-12, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by runnerXT

^I agree that if you do the crime you do the time, you screwed up here is the penalty, I agree with all that. But look at these sobering statistics. Is penalties and law enforcement the answer? Is that the only answer? Put fear into people,m sure that should be part of the solution. But when you look at incarceration rates and jail sentences in the US that should not be the only focus because obviously that is failing.

The United States has more people in jail than any other nation in the world by far. The largest country in population in the world is China at like 1.3 billion plus people and has 1/3 less people in numbers, not per capita, than the US has in jails/prisons. The country that comes closest to the US per capita is Russia and there incarceration rate is around 1/3 less than of the US.

To put it in other words the US acccounts for 25% of the world's people in jail. But yet we have one of the highest violant crimes rates in the world to where we need to look to the worst of third world countries to make us look good.

Some states now spend more on jail and prisons than education.

I say the United States has a warped sense of priorities and the policy of law order is failing. No matter your emotions to crime in the US something is terribly wrong here. The 'system' is not working and places the US at the bottom of countries for violant crime rates and easily at the top for incaration rates.

Are you suggesting that the US adopt China's method for dealing with criminals?

Ravine · February-28-12, 02:08 AM

What I inferred from runnerXT's post is that all of our arm-flapping & raving about lawnorder & stiffer penalties is little more than frustrated barking up a leafless tree, since the ever-rising incarceration rate has not been vindicated by any fortuitous drop in crime.

**Zacha341** · February-28-12, 07:20 AM

Outstanding metaphor - applicable to a great deal!

Originally Posted by Ravine

What I inferred from runnerXT's post is that all of our arm-flapping & raving about lawnorder & stiffer penalties is little more than frustrated barking up a leafless tree, since the ever-rising incarceration rate has not been vindicated by any fortuitous drop in crime.

**firstandten** · February-28-12, 08:08 AM

I think what Detroiters are desperate for and desperately need to see is the mayor step up and show some leadership. Mayor Bing got up and made the required speech focusing on parents stepping up and thats good. As a mayor that was the minimum requirement for any growing crisis

What I need to see, and hopefully other Detroiters as well are some concrete policies coming out of this. I know we have a very risk-adverse mayor but if he has any hopes at all of getting another term he needs to give us more than just lip service.

I need to see him step out of the box a little bit on this. I keep going back to Mayor Nutter of Philly even though the two situations aren't totally compariable. Mayor Nutter ran on a tough on crime platform, Mayor Bing didn't. However whats to keep Mayor Bing from instituting a strong curfew like Nutter has, or even though this carries some political risk whats to stop Bing from instituting a stop and frisk policy like Nutter even though you will most likely get an ACLU challenge. Even then thats not all bad because you will understand how far you can go to that line without crossing it.

I would like to see more aggressive solutions come out of his office. I think it would let people know that he at least feels their pain

**Meddle** · February-28-12, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by Buy American

A 10 PM curfew would be one suggestion with zero tolerance. Kid goes to jail, parents pay a hefty fine to get them out. I know some of these parents don't have a pot to pi$$ in but if you hit someone in the pocketbook once in a awhile, they may take note. If they can't pay, keep the kid in for 5 - 10 days and see if it doesn't put the fear of God in them.

Parents? What parents?

If they're still alive, or if the kid even knows who both parents are, one or both may already be in jail/prison for gang or drug related crimes. Maybe the grandparents too. Not to mention the brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles and cousins who might be in prison or graves. We're dealing with third or fourth generation punks who don't know any other lifestyle and don't care to find anything different.

**rjk** · February-28-12, 08:46 AM

What we need is some politician to write up a report and call it 'The black family: The Case For National Action.' Hopefully said politician won't be called a racist and told to shut up and we act on it before it's too late.

Actually Patrick Moynihan used the phrase 'The Negro Family', but I changed it for current standards. That report came out in 1965, how's that working out now?
It is too late and the genie isn't going back in the bottle.