Are there any new plans for the Pontchartrain Hotel building?

[mikeg19]

If the rooms are that small by today's standards, make it a budget hotel. Tiny rooms=cheap rooms. I'm sure most young people couldn't care less if the room is tiny if the room price is $99 compared to a so called "bigger, nicer" room for $249 a night. I know I don't, as long as it's not a hell hole.

[Genesyxx]

As far as location goes, it can't be beat. Steps from anywhere you want to be downtown really. The build of the entire place is so god-awful tho. I think any potential buyer has already seen this and has passed on it. You'd have to pour a ton of money in for a rehab [[I'd prefer a rebuild). Maybe after COBO finishes renovation and conventions go on the upswing, it'll get another look.

[finster]

I don't know how good the renovation was, but it was only a few years ago that they spruced up the place and I'm sure even if it was a budget remodel it cost a few bucks. You would think someone could pick it up cheap and do something with it, just because of the location across the street from Cobo.

Like many have said I'm sure the casinos gobbling up alot of business hurts this idea, however.

[Brian1979]

367 rooms on 25 floors so that means about 14-15 rooms per floor is all? The renovation happened in 2007 so only 5 years ago. It's been closed since August 2009, I still say knock it down and rebuild a 25-30 story hotel on the same plot of land taking up the entire block. The parking situation could include an underground garage.

[Packman41]

I don't know how good the renovation was, but it was only a few years ago that they spruced up the place and I'm sure even if it was a budget remodel it cost a few bucks. You would think someone could pick it up cheap and do something with it, just because of the location across the street from Cobo.

I don't know how good the renovation was either. IIRC when the hotel was shutdown in July 2009 the Baptist conventioneers were complaining about: [[1) the lack of air conditioning, [[2)elevators out of order and [[3) electrical problems. That speaks to real infrastructure problems. The "renovation" may have only been in the rooms and common areas and only cosmetic.

Last month the Wall Street Journal had a short article on the Ponchartrain and in it said the last owner [[Shubh Hotels of Baca Raton, FL) was asking the Bankruptcy Court to borrow $5.0 million to make repairs and get the hotel operating. Current debt on the property is $30+ million.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...187920376.html

Other reports I've read said there are "significant" repairs required. Again, this points to a cosmetic/sprucing up of the hotel in 2007 and not a full renovation.

[Gianni]

"The outdoor pool is maybe the worse place to swim in North America as it has all the charm of a mobile dunk tank set up in a WalMart parking lot."

I have to disagree.

Although I never was in the pool, I always wished I'd booked a room there during the P'Jazz concerts so that I could be in that pool on a hot summer day, drinking a beer or martini, while taking in Art Blakey, Tito Puente, Paquito D'Rivera and many of the other jazz greats who played on that pool deck.

[dbc]

That WSJ article is from last year, not January 2012. I don't know what the status is, but Shubh clearly didn't reopen the hotel last March. Here's hoping it will reopen, though. I only stayed there once back in 1996 or so, but would love to see jazz there some day.

[kryptonite]

I have to join in with the 'like the Pontchartrain' group. I have always thought it was an attractive building although that is a matter of personal taste. It's a great location and in the early 80's when they held outdoor jazz concerts the patio was very pretty with banners, etc.

If it were to reopen that would be a boost to the area. I agree with the poster that noted that a closed hotel next to a convention center has to be viewed as negative to out of town visitors.

Cobo bookings are up a bit and the Cobo renovations will be awesome, so considering the current shortage of downtown hotel space, I would think the Pontchartrain has a fighting chance.

[DetroitPlanner]

I too like the design of the Pontch. Yes there would be a lot I would change about the first floors, but the tower is very unique.

krypton, can you point me to where there is a shortage of downtown hotel space? I know occupancy is up, but that is different than a shortage.

[Islandman]

I too like the design of the Pontch. Yes there would be a lot I would change about the first floors, but the tower is very unique.

krypton, can you point me to where there is a shortage of downtown hotel space? I know occupancy is up, but that is different than a shortage.

Any time that there is anything of concequence going on downtown, you can't get a room. This has happened to me on 3 occasions where I didn't want to drive home and went to all the usual suspects and they were all booked.

[kryptonite]

I too like the design of the Pontch. Yes there would be a lot I would change about the first floors, but the tower is very unique.

krypton, can you point me to where there is a shortage of downtown hotel space? I know occupancy is up, but that is different than a shortage.

DetroitPlanner, there were some online articles in late 2011 about the increasing occupancy rates in downtown Detroit hotels. I tried to google them and came up with a few but some of the links weren't active any longer. Here is a Dyes thread that appeared about it:

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...Hotels-Fill-Up

My guess is that when some people refer to hotel space shortages, they are primarily referring to weekends. With the Redwings, Lions, auto show, concerts, major events, etc. it sounds like some weekends hotel space is limited.

If you google 'Detroit Hotel occupancy', you see some links to mostly positive articles and headlines. Wish I was better at web searches to include a few here.

[Packman41]

This article from the December 22, 2011 edition of the Detroit News cites that occupancy rates for the first 11 months of 2011 are 60.8% in Detroit area. This was the best result since 1999. It also says that 60% is the occupancy needed just to breakeven before returning a profit.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...471/1001/rss21

A lot of reports came out earlier, around October 2011 and cited a source, Travel Click, as predicting an increase of 22% for Detroit occupancy rates during 2012. It was unknown what occupancy rate they used as their base rate and they did not predict the final occupancy rate - only that it would be a 22% increase.

[DetroitPlanner]

The only reason why I am asking is that is there enough business to open another hotel just for a few peak nights a year? On peak nights where do the other people stay? Dearborn? Southfield? If so maybe there just isn't the demand and they would be better turning it into apartments. Certainly apartments would be less taxing on parking, and justify more retail downtown. Never staying there, I don't know the current floorplans, I've only been to meetings on the top floor and main floor ballrooms. how many decent size apartments per floor? Six? Eight? Ten?

[narnarnar]

Maybe I'm in the minority but I like that Kennedy-era architecture. I hope that the hotel opens again.

[mikeg19]

I'm not a huge fan of the Ponch, but I guess it add's character to the area. Besides, without MAJOR structural problems, I highly doubt they would knock the building down to replace it with another 25-30 story hotel that's just more visually appeasing. But then again, with Adamo on the prowl.......

[softailrider]

When they did the last "renovation" they removed the fountain on the Larned side of the hotel, I thought that was a mistake. They also got rid of the escalator [[it was always being repaired anyway) to the main lobby from the garage lobby, after that, you had to wait for an elevator to go up.

The place had been a dump for a couple of decades before it closed. Justice was never done to that place after it got run down.

[southofbloor]

Maybe I'm in the minority but I like that Kennedy-era architecture. I hope that the hotel opens again.

Amen - nice building from an under-appreciated era. Hart Plaza and its associated modernist bits like this are unique and amazing - worth keeping.

What's with the fixation on demolition in Detroit? Buildings are flexible - fix it, get a fantastic local designer to overhaul it where it needs to be altered to make it better, and build on the good stuff you already have. What distinguishes Detroit from all the other economically struggling cities out there is that it is a beautiful city of great architecture - but i don't think Detroiters generally realize how good a lot of their buildings are.

No economy in the near future is going to be able to afford to rebuild the quality of what you already have. Seems like it might be wise to stabilize what you have in places that are viable until there is a user ready to take it on.

Growing up across the river I always liked the jagged shiny profile of this thing across the water - it is really Kennedy era space race.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

In a sane environment, the owner of Cobo would buy the property, install an updated hotel building and integrate it with the convention hall, including a tunnel or skywalk, like nearly every other convention center I've been to.

JBMcB, I must heartily disagree with you. I agree with some other posters. I hate tunnels and walkways. If I were the building department [[note: I am not the building department), I would change code to not allow any further such structures. Every newly built/renovated area of downtown should be built pedestrian friendly, but not removed from the street. Yes, I realize that means people need to walk outside in the cold and rain; but if people are looking to book a convention in the winter, and the elements are a prime concern, would Detroit be on the table anyway [[or any other Northern/Midwestern city)? I would suspect southern & western cities would be their choice.

As for the Pontch, I have a feeling [[I have not been inside since I was a kid) that the building is not laid out to make for the rooms in the more modern/luxurious kind of rooms and suites that rent more easily, especially when you're expensing it for a work trip. I'd be for a demo, with a new hotel there. Definitely a good location for a hotel. Detroit lacks a Ritz-Carlton, InternContinental, Four Seasons and a few of the other high end brands. I hope they set up shop at some point in Detroit.

[kryptonite]

I'm glad to see so many pro-Pontch postings. I have always liked that building. The fact that it isn't some type of gray stone also helps in the cold overcast winter days. Years ago I read an article by an architect that encouraged builders in cold northern climates to avoid using gray building materials. His point was that where climactic conditions mean many gray and cold days, gray stonework only adds to the miserable aesthics. He recommended black, rose, terra-cotta, white, etc. building materials to liven a city up some on a 15 degree overcast winter day.

One would think that the future of the Pontchartrain is promising. Large crowds are common dowtown now and last year the news reported was that Cobo convention bookings are seeing a small increase.

[Tig3rzhark]

I always loved the Pontch. My mother used to work there, and I used to stay there all the time when I was little.

It's a shame that it's closed right now, but I'm pretty sure that someone, in due time would purchase it considering it's closer to Cobo than any other Hotel downtown.

[jsmyers]

I've always thought that the tower part of the building was attractive and unique--and therefore would be a bad thing to loose.

I wasn't that familiar with the building, never having been inside and not spending to much time in that part of downtown. So I used google to check out the outside. Here are my thoughts on what should be done long-term with the block:

1. Strip back as much of the pedestal as possible, especially eliminating the sidewalk overhangs on Larned. [[I suspect there is a parking garage under there.) Make sure that what is left avoids blank walls at all cost.
2. Reconfigure the pedestal and especially the west end of the block to fit in the necessary hotel parking, but do not attempt to park cars for non-hotel guests. It is not going to be economical to do so when you have large old garages and the cobo roof so close.
3. Recreate and activate the street wall, particularly on the Washington and Larned sides. [[Keep the service functions on Shelby and Jefferson can stay a bit more front porch-like.) Retail spaces that front these streets should be able to to good business targeting convention attendees.
4. New construction on the Washington side should be 3-5 floors. Bars, Cafes, and Restaurants on 1-2. Meeting space and other hotel functions above. Alternatively, you could go higher and add a second tower of hotel rooms.
5. Fix the structural, HVAC, electrical, etc issues that prevent the hotel from meeting expectations.
6. Reconfigure the lobby floor plan so that there is a hotel entrance on the corner of Washington and Jefferson, directly across from the Cobo entrance and the crosswalk.
7. Market the hotel primarily as being the closest to the everything, but especially Cobo. You don't need to build a rat tube to claim that, especially all you have to do is step outside and cross the street to be in cobo. With the right meeting space, some conventions may find it advantageous to book a convention in both Cobo and the Ponch.