Midtown "Central Park" Concept

[antongast]

A lot of people could use the work.

I hate to keep making the same point over and over, but people seemed confused by it before.

[DetroitPlanner]

In other cities I hear they solve this problem by hiring people to clean the parks.

It also has a serious lack of garbage cans to people ratio. Why folks can't just pick up after themselves and bring the trash home is a different story. The City got rid of island buses over ten years ago, and you can't pack much in on a bike, so nearly everyone is coming by car.

[canuck]

Botanical gardens all over Detroit linked by transit nodes. Shopping areas reborn along the main streets and a revitalized tourist industry based on using vast tracts of rehabbed land for horticultural theme parks. Nice smelling alternative to Marathon-type industry. If anyone cares to introduce scientific botanical research, and if anyone cares for labor intensive, tonic work; this is a good plan.

[iheartthed]

It also has a serious lack of garbage cans to people ratio. Why folks can't just pick up after themselves and bring the trash home is a different story. The City got rid of island buses over ten years ago, and you can't pack much in on a bike, so nearly everyone is coming by car.

You could expect people to clean up after themselves or you could solve the problem by hiring someone to clean the park. The former allows you to complain incessantly whenever someone doesn't follow the protocol and the latter actually solves the problem.

I bought a cup of tea in London once at St. Pancras station as I was about to catch a train. I finished the cup of tea and searched the station like crazy for a trash can to throw the empty cup away. Confused about where they were hiding the trash cans, I asked a cop in the station where I could find one. His response: there were none in the station, just sit the cup on the floor. [[St. Pancras station is nearly spotless, mind you.) So, after a little hesitation, I sit the cup on the floor as I was told. Within minutes the cup had been picked up by a station worker.

Now, London's reasons for not having trash cans in the train station are a bit different from why Detroit doesn't have them on Belle Isle. But if they can keep that train station virtually spotless with thousands of people traveling through there per day, tons of restaurants and coffee shops, and not a single trash for public use then I'm sure Detroit can come up with a way to clean Belle Isle without locking everyone out.

[bailey]

You could expect people to clean up after themselves or you could solve the problem by hiring someone to clean the park. The former allows you to complain incessantly whenever someone doesn't follow the protocol and the latter actually solves the problem.

I bought a cup of tea in London once at St. Pancras station as I was about to catch a train. I finished the cup of tea and searched the station like crazy for a trash can to throw the empty cup away. Confused about where they were hiding the trash cans, I asked a cop in the station where I could find one. His response: there were none in the station, just sit the cup on the floor. [[St. Pancras station is nearly spotless, mind you.) So, after a little hesitation, I sit the cup on the floor as I was told. Within minutes the cup had been picked up by a station worker.

Now, London's reasons for not having trash cans in the train station are a bit different from why Detroit doesn't have them on Belle Isle. But if they can keep that train station virtually spotless with thousands of people traveling through there per day, tons of restaurants and coffee shops, and not a single trash for public use then I'm sure Detroit can come up with a way to clean Belle Isle without locking everyone out.

One city is functionally insolvent and the other is a world class metropolis. Are you really asking why if London can do it, why can't Detroit can't figure out how to keep garbage controlled on Belle Isle? Seriously? This city can't keep more than 15 EMS rigs in operation...how high on the list of priorities do you think garbage cans in a park are going to be?

[Bham1982]

... more like the Grosse Pointe waterfront parks... where if you're not a resident... you're not getting in...

I'm just curious; how do the Pointes enforce this rule?

If I wander into a GP park off the street, how do they know I'm not a resident? They do random spot-checks or something, and your ID has to match a GP address?

I mean, that sounds like a massive waste of resources and a general pain in the ass for parkgoers.

[Detroitnerd]

Ah, yes. That's how it is in every other city in the world. But Detroit is different. In Detroit, we view people as problems and costs. And they have to pay if they're expected to have something like a clean park. And they'll just junk it up anyway, so ...

[Detroitnerd]

We can't afford to put waste bins on Belle Isle, man. We gotta spend money to widen that freeway through town so commuters can get to the west side 23 seconds more quickly.

[Hermod]

In Detroit, they use the money to hire nephews, brothers-in-law, and girlfriends to sit in an office and do nothing.

[Detroitnerd]

In Detroit, they use the money to hire nephews, brothers-in-law, and girlfriends to sit in an office and do nothing.

I would give good money for an honest picture of what "they" look like in your mind.

[Hermod]

I would give good money for an honest picture of what "they" look like in your mind.

The people that have been running "nepotism central" in Detroit for the last forty years. It is why phones don't get answered downtown and why the lines are so long at any customer service office run by the city.

[Detroitnerd]

The people that have been running "nepotism central" in Detroit for the last forty years. It is why phones don't get answered downtown and why the lines are so long at any customer service office run by the city.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IKyhMY4l90

[corktownyuppie]

I'm just curious; how do the Pointes enforce this rule?

If I wander into a GP park off the street, how do they know I'm not a resident? They do random spot-checks or something, and your ID has to match a GP address?

I mean, that sounds like a massive waste of resources and a general pain in the ass for parkgoers.

All of the public parks in GP have gated entry. Windmille Pointe Park, a public park in Grosse Pointe, rivals some country clubs...including gym facilities, olympic pool, movie theaters, and a marina. The only non-gated parks in the Grosse Pointes are the playing fields associated with the elementary, middle, and high schools.

So, no, there is no wandering into GP parks from off the street.

I don't object to the idea of asking residents to pay small admissions fees to the premier parks in Detroit. If Belle Isle just charged $2 per person in a vehicle, the place could be so much nicer.

[Detroitnerd]

I don't object to the idea of asking residents to pay small admissions fees to the premier parks in Detroit. If Belle Isle just charged $2 per person in a vehicle, the place could be so much nicer.

Politically, it's a nonstarter.

But other than that, I don't think it would be that much nicer.

They do clean the island as it is.

The fee would hurt poor people's ability to enjoy a public amenity.

And the money collected would mostly go into the collecting of the money, and I doubt much of it would go to enhancing cleanup anyway.

Just another dead-end Detroit-style idea about tacking on a fee to exclude people and make things "nicer."

[Wheels]

The people that have been running "nepotism central" in Detroit for the last forty years. It is why phones don't get answered downtown and why the lines are so long at any customer service office run by the city.

Its more like 70 years!


When the last of the county auditors was tried in September 1942, the Detroit Free Press published an article that rings like an echo from the old train station. It reads in part:

"Altogether, Michigan’s taxpayers have taken a thorough financial drubbing from corrupt officials in this county ... it is inevitable that sooner or later another gang of rogues will take it over. Then the whole costly, shameful process will have to be gone through again –- with every taxpayer in Michigan as the ultimate sucker.”

[Detroitnerd]

Its more like 70 years!


When the last of the county auditors was tried in September 1942, the Detroit Free Press published an article that rings like an echo from the old train station. It reads in part:

"Altogether, Michigan’s taxpayers have taken a thorough financial drubbing from corrupt officials in this county ... it is inevitable that sooner or later another gang of rogues will take it over. Then the whole costly, shameful process will have to be gone through again –- with every taxpayer in Michigan as the ultimate sucker.”

Oh, but it couldn't have been back in the 1960s when Hermod was working for the city. The ... ahem ... complexion of things was quite different back then.

[bailey]

I'm just curious; how do the Pointes enforce this rule?

If I wander into a GP park off the street, how do they know I'm not a resident? They do random spot-checks or something, and your ID has to match a GP address?

I mean, that sounds like a massive waste of resources and a general pain in the ass for parkgoers.

all of the public parks in GP have gated entry. Windmille Pointe Park, a public park in Grosse Pointe, rivals some country clubs...including gym facilities, olympic pool, movie theaters, and a marina. The only non-gated parks in the Grosse Pointes are the playing fields associated with the elementary, middle, and high schools.

So, no, there is no wandering into GP parks from off the street.

I don't object to the idea of asking residents to pay small admissions fees to the premier parks in Detroit. If Belle Isle just charged $2 per person in a vehicle, the place could be so much nicer

.

to also follow up.... you have to have a pass. Some of them are picture with barcode that gets scanned on entry, other cities it's just your name and address. you need to renew every year and the list is checked against property rolls.

It's most certainly not a waste as it functions to do exactly what the citizens ask of it...namely, ensure those pay for the facilities [[and their guests) are the the ones using the facility.

[Bham1982]

to also follow up.... you have to have a pass. Some of them are picture with barcode that gets scanned on entry, other cities it's just your name and address. you need to renew every year and the list is checked against property rolls.

It's most certainly not a waste as it functions to do exactly what the citizens ask of it...namely, ensure those pay for the facilities [[and their guests) are the the ones using the facility.

Thanks for explaining; this makes it more clear.

I didn't know that the Pointes only had a few large lakefront parks. I guess that makes it easier to fence and enforce the rules through a single point of entry.

Most cities tend to have numerous smaller neighborhood parks, such as what you see in Birmingham or Royal Oak. In this context, the idea of fencing all the parks and instituting dozens of manned single points of entry 18 hours a day/7 days a week would be absurd, but it may make more sense in the Pointes if we're only talking a few big properties.

[iheartthed]

One city is functionally insolvent and the other is a world class metropolis. Are you really asking why if London can do it, why can't Detroit can't figure out how to keep garbage controlled on Belle Isle? Seriously? This city can't keep more than 15 EMS rigs in operation...how high on the list of priorities do you think garbage cans in a park are going to be?

The question was rhetorical. To be honest, I don't expect a city that can't figure out how to keep a simple park clean to be that good at delivering most any type of service.

[Detroit Stylin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IKyhMY4l90

That is EXACTLY what they look like in his mind....

[Detroitrobert]

It is why phones don't get answered downtown and why the lines are so long at any customer service office run by the city.

What offices are you trying to reach and which offices are you visiting? I may be able to help if tell me where you're having problems.

[Gistok]

Eminent Domain!!

DetroitPlanner....we may have inadvertently coined a new phrase here....

Imminent Domain may be taking of land for things such as the current expansion of Cobo Hall.

Eminent Domain may be for "eventual" taking of land for the on-again off-again new DBIC bridge, or for the perpetually postponed expansion of I-94 from 3 to 4 lanes.

LOL....

[gthomas]

Well if anyone[[s) is interested having a meeting to discuss our option[[s) or steps for the concept, if any. Please email me: gtrip313@yahoo.com for more information on where to meet and discuss plans. If all we can do is grab garbage bags, racks, and shovels for start that will be great. It does'nt make sense on the amount of debri and trash everywhere and no one seems to care but me. I will go out there by myself if need be..I want to start this by spring, hopefully by March or April.

[gthomas]

So which projects were you responsible for in Chicago and Oklahoma?

I worked with QCDC [[Quad Community Development Corp.) in the Bronzeville district in Chicago, Me and a few other's talked and planned out proposal for the district including community gardening, installing playground equipment, landscaping, street art installation's, after school programs..etc. In Oklahoma, I attended Langston University and worked with board members to make the campus pedestrian-friendly by adding sidewalk's, benches, landscaping, lighting, signage..etc. Why not Detroit...?

[Detroitrobert]

I worked with QCDC [[Quad Community Development Corp.) in the Bronzeville district in Chicago, Me and a few other's talked and planned out proposal for the district including community gardening, installing playground equipment, landscaping, street art installation's, after school programs..etc. In Oklahoma, I attended Langston University and worked with board members to make the campus pedestrian-friendly by adding sidewalk's, benches, landscaping, lighting, signage..etc. Why not Detroit...?

I agree, why not Detroit? You've talked and planned about projects in Oklahoma and Chicago, why not talk about projects here?