Michigan loses government jobs, hampering economic recovery

**antongast** · January-23-12, 01:18 PM

I'm just saying.

**Zozo** · January-23-12, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by antongast

I'm just saying.

You didn't say anything.

**Novine** · January-23-12, 02:49 PM

The same is true of the national economy. Conservatives complain about the job numbers and unemployment rate when those would be much improved if there weren't the job losses in the public sector. You give them exactly the downsizing of government jobs that they have demanded for years and then they complain that there's too many people unemployed. It appears that "starving the beast" does have some negative effects.

**gameguy56** · January-23-12, 02:55 PM

Doesn't Michigan have a surplus?

**DetroitPlanner** · January-23-12, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by gameguy56

Doesn't Michigan have a surplus?

The State does but most public employees work at the 83 counties, or hundreds of school districts, cities, or villages. It is these agencies that have been hurt most by the downturn because more of thier budget is tied to the value of property. In case you have not noticed. Houses are cheap around here.

**Wesley Mouch** · January-23-12, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

The State does but most public employees work at the 83 counties, or hundreds of school districts, cities, or villages. It is these agencies that have been hurt most by the downturn because more of thier budget is tied to the value of property. In case you have not noticed. Houses are cheap around here.

Isn't that good? I thought 'affordable housing' was among the goals of progressives. Courtesy of the conservatives, you have it.

But seriously folks, government jobs are not productive. And they shouldn't be. They are solely infrastructure. And that's great. We need infrastructure. But it should be as small and efficient as possible.

That said, I'd rather pay unemployment than pay for workers that aren't truly needed. And where they're needed, they should receive just a little less than the private sector, with good guarantees for guaranteed employment, and a reasonable public pension. Maybe a little better than the pensions we afford everyone else -- oops, except we don't.

**antongast** · January-23-12, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

But seriously folks, government jobs are not productive.

What are you talking about? A job is a job. Employed people get haircuts, eat at restaurants, buy cars, have their roofs fixed, and all that money circulates in the local economy and helps keep other people employed. If that's a valid rationale for subsidizing private-sector "job creation," it should be a valid rationale for not laying off government workers.

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

That said, I'd rather pay unemployment than pay for workers that aren't truly needed.

Who says they aren't needed? DPL just closed the Monteith and Mark Twain branches, so there is no library branch anywhere east of Chene or south of Warren. Those branches were used by people in the community and provided a tangible public benefit to the lower east side of Detroit. Why couldn't Snyder have sent some money to DPL to keep those branches open instead of sending it to Hyundai? Or take DDOT, there aren't as many drivers or as many mechanics as there need to be to serve a city this size. Or DPD and DFD being chronically short-staffed. Multiply these problems by every city in Michigan; they're all hurting right now, and part of it is because the state keeps cutting revenue sharing because they don't think government creates value. It's bullshit, and it's hurting the economy.

**Wesley Mouch** · January-23-12, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by antongast

What are you talking about? A job is a job. Employed people get haircuts, eat at restaurants, buy cars, have their roofs fixed, and all that money circulates in the local economy and helps keep other people employed. If that's a valid rationale for subsidizing private-sector "job creation," it should be a valid rationale for not laying off government workers.

Somewhere, the wealth the makes that money worth something sprouts. Hint: Not Government. Circulating money -- the velocity if you will -- has some value. But not if there's not a source of wealth, its just 'rearranging deck chairs'.

**coracle** · January-23-12, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by gameguy56

Doesn't Michigan have a surplus?

After Snyder's state of the State address I remember recoiling at the most stupid criticism imaginable from one of our Senators - "He [[Snyder) didn't tell us what we are going to spend the surplus on".

**Wesley Mouch** · January-23-12, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by coracle

After Snyder's state of the State address I remember recoiling at the most stupid criticism imaginable from one of our Senators - "He [[Snyder) didn't tell us what we are going to spend the surplus on".

A rare honest politician.

**Jimaz** · January-23-12, 02:56 PM

This is happening in states other than Michigan too—simultaneously. The coordinated effort has been traced by following the money through ALEC back to our glorious Koch overlords.

**Danny** · January-23-12, 02:58 PM

Thank-you Snyder, the Nerd for destroying our Great State of Michigan.

**guito13** · January-23-12, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by Danny

Thank-you Snyder, the Nerd for destroying our Great State of Michigan.

What do you propose he do then? Keep up with the spending and therefore keep growing the debt that we have as a state?

Bottom line is that we need to spend less and pay off ANY debt we have as a state. Once we truly have a surplus after all debt is gone then we can look at adding programs/resources/employees.

**antongast** · January-23-12, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by guito13

What do you propose he do then? Keep up with the spending and therefore keep growing the debt that we have as a state?

Yes, if it will help us recover faster. There's plenty of time to worry about spending once the economy is back on track.

Also I would propose that, if he considers the budget to be a higher priority than jobs, he should stop handing out public funds to private corporations in the name of "job creation." Otherwise he'd be, you know, a hypocrite.

**guito13** · January-23-12, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by antongast

Yes, if it will help us recover faster. There's plenty of time to worry about spending once the economy is back on track.

Also I would propose that, if he considers the budget to be a higher priority than jobs, he should stop handing out public funds to private corporations in the name of "job creation." Otherwise he'd be, you know, a hypocrite.

I guess I could put all my bills on my Visa until i get a better job too. Common fiscal sense tells me that is not the best idea.

I never said I agreed with his actions in other areas, I just replied to the OP's point. I would argue that the investment in a private industry that will create 50 jobs [[at 50K taxpayer investment per new job) may have a positive ROI but I would have some more numbers to verify that. If we can show that additional government employees will net a positive ROI for the state then I am all for it.

**coracle** · January-23-12, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by Danny

Thank-you Snyder, the Nerd for destroying our Great State of Michigan.

Just shows how good he is at the job. Some folks have been working on it for decades and he's only been at it for a year.

**coracle** · January-24-12, 01:18 PM

"If government jobs were real jobs, then all you'd have to do is hire everyone for government work. That's why they don't want to count government jobs. Because they are not real jobs, in terms of anything but wealth redistribution"

Very explicit statement. Public Sector jobs are essential but should be kept to a bare minimum because they are paid for with the taxes of Private Sector produced wealth. For every dollar we put into the Public Sector that's one dollar less in the Private Sector for investment/profit/taxes. Europe is a good example of the Public Sector completely out of kilter, and we're not far behind brought about by the out of control spending of the last 10 years.

**coracle** · January-24-12, 04:48 PM

"There's something like 700,000 less people employed by the government today as compared to 2009. How are all those dollars being spent in the private sector working out?"

The government has reduced their taxes yet so they haven't seen any benefit. No doubt the savings are being frittered away on entitlements for votes. At the same time the Private Sector has to pay their unemployment benefits.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · January-25-12, 02:40 AM

I sure hope he's a one term Governor. He's doesn't give a rats _ss about working people, only big business and the wealthy, like all the other GOP's.

**Novine** · January-25-12, 06:46 AM

" The Midwest continues to lose residents, but Michigan became a balanced state after six consecutive years of steady outbound moves. "

Good - you can tell us what economic policy that was adopted by the state that took effect in 2011 that would account for individuals deciding to move back to Michigan. Let's see if you can find anything,

**Wesley Mouch** · January-25-12, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Novine

" The Midwest continues to lose residents, but Michigan became a balanced state after six consecutive years of steady outbound moves. "

Good - you can tell us what economic policy that was adopted by the state that took effect in 2011 that would account for individuals deciding to move back to Michigan. Let's see if you can find anything,

Not a believer in 'simple solutions'. No single 'economic policy' is/was responsible.

Some federal stimulus supporting us, extended unemployment benefits, reductions in government spending increasing efficiency and keeping property tax rates from going up too much... and of course the biggest thing is auto industry bailout.