Snyder Wants 60% Car Registration Fee Hike

**davewindsor** · January-23-12, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Beer in Sweden.... averages $7....
http://www.studyinsweden.se/Living-i...ost-of-living/

Gas prices in Germany $8+ per gallon... but regular Germans drive economy cars, that get superb gas mileage. Ever come across a pothole in Germany? Much less auto maintenance costs...

People spending $1000 filling up a shopping cart? Um... that would likely be an institutional purchase... the reason.... German consumers have a refrigerator/freezer that is about 1/2 the capacity of those in the USA. They also generally shop more than once a week, due to that. They often shop at Aldi's and other cut rate supermarkets, where you buy from cases/cartons, bag it yourself, and bring your own shopping bags. Also Germans are about 10 times as likely as the USA to have their own gardens for growing foodstuffs. The memories of going hungry during and after the war years still runs deep in the German psyche. Been to Germany 15 times... never saw a shopping cart with that much piled into it....

I'll give you that. He was talking about a cool nightclub in Stockholm and the ratio of attractive women and what I'm missing out on.

Yes, there are German cars with superb gas mileage just like there are Toyotas and electric cars. A lot of people drive them in the US and Canada too. Toyota used to be the #1 auto seller in the US a few years ago because of their gas mileage. And yet, Germans still drive cars like the BMW M5 with a 10 cylinder engine. Personally, I prefer gas guzzlers. The point is that the drivers of the roads are paying for those roads without potholes. If drivers in the US paid $8 a gallon they'd probably get roads just as nice.

Still if you compare the cost per item of food, it's higher than the US because of taxes, food lobbies, and the $8 per gallon being factored into the prices of food when that food is being transported from point A to B and finally to the grocery store. I don't know about gardens and people growing their own food. I've met dozens of Germans including one that owned a motel and haven't met a single one with a garden growing their own food. Land also costs a lot more in Germany, so having a home with a backyard garden is very expensive. Not saying your friends in Germany don't all have gardens. They very well may. Just saying the ones I met didn't.

**Zacha341** · January-23-12, 07:30 AM

It's not my mistake - the confusion originates from the article it can be argued. The headline which I cut and pasted into Post read:

Snyder Wants 60% Car Registration Fee Hike

The article leads off stating 60 percent:

LANSING, Mich. [[WJBK) -- Governor Rick Snyder in his State of the State message this week did not tell motorists he wants to hike their registration fees by a hefty 60 percent.

The later on it states a $60 average:

"The registration fee could on average could go up $60,"

Originally Posted by Dexlin

Someone already partially corrected the original posters mistake, but not only is this not a 60% increase for all vehicles, but the $60 increase is an average that includes ALL cars, everything from Kias to Bentlys.

bartock · January-23-12, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by Novine

It's the price of sprawl. Too few people paying to support too much infrastructure. But at least we have money to widen I-94.

We do? I though that was almost entirely federally-funded.

I don't think it is the price of sprawl as much as it is the price of not having tighter weight limits on trucks.

**Searay215** · January-23-12, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by coracle

$60 average increase per Car Registration Fee to repair our lousy Michigan roads is peanuts compared to the doubling of our gas price from $1.83 to $3.40 per gallon since the advent of Obama. Snyder is doing a sterling job and is addressing the previous 8 years of do nothing by the previous "Governor"

You can't blame the president for gas prices.....it is supply and demand as well as what is going on in the world and the middle east. If someone coughs in the middle east gas goes up. And while you don't think $60 increase for plates is a big deal, seniors with a fixed income or young people who don't have a job, would argue that with you. If you can't file a long form on your income taxes you can deduct it from there either.

Here is a link to see historical prices: http://www.GasBuddy.com/gb_retail_pr...me=72&units=us

**313WX** · January-23-12, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by Searay215

And while you don't think $60 increase for plates is a big deal, seniors with a fixed income or young people who don't have a job, would argue that with you.

Bingo!!!

The point is the hike in the registration fee is yet another regressive tax hike on those who can least afford it, in a time when these same folks have already experienced hefty state tax increases and decreases in government assistance.

**JBMcB** · January-23-12, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by Searay215

You can't blame the president for gas prices.....it is supply and demand as well as what is going on in the world and the middle east. If someone coughs in the middle east gas goes up.

Or if someone threatens to shut down Iranian oil exports, like, say, the president.

**ghettopalmetto** · January-23-12, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by bartock

We do? I though that was almost entirely federally-funded.

I don't think it is the price of sprawl as much as it is the price of not having tighter weight limits on trucks.

It's a price of not having enough money to maintain the roads that already exist. Otherwise, I-94 wouldn't look the way it currently does. This expansion is only going to exacerbate that problem, by permanently putting more lane-miles of pavement into MDOT's maintenance backlog.

Roadway engineers have to design the roads to support expected loads. If you keep deferring maintenance on anything, however, it's going to fall apart over time.

You can't keep building new infrastructure when your population is static. The revenues will never be able to keep pace with the expenditures.

**coracle** · January-23-12, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Searay215

You can't blame the president for gas prices.....it is supply and demand as well as what is going on in the world and the middle east. If someone coughs in the middle east gas goes up. And while you don't think $60 increase for plates is a big deal, seniors with a fixed income or young people who don't have a job, would argue that with you. If you can't file a long form on your income taxes you can deduct it from there either.

Here is a link to see historical prices: http://www.GasBuddy.com/gb_retail_pr...me=72&units=us

I didn't blame him; I only pointed he was around the whole time it was going up. But obviously as his supporter you immediately jumped to his defense because you know deep down generally he's a waste of space; particularly on Energy. If you remember Bush was never blamed when gas went up during his tenure [[like hell he wasn't!). But I certainly do applaud Snyder on the great job he's doing.

**Baselinepunk** · January-23-12, 11:21 AM

I seriously don't know who this a--hole Dick Snyder thinks he is.

This will not happen in an election year, a year after DickCo has basically nickle and dimed the citizenry already. The Republicans stand to get thrown out on their asses as it is any way; I'm sure they would not want to give the opposition any more ammo.

Here's an idea that would cost very little: ENFORCE THE DAMN WEIGHT LIMITS ON TRUCKS! Our roads would not be in such bad shape if over-weighted trucks were not pounding the Hell out of them.

If this passes; I can only imagine how much more horrific it will be getting around the area on these roads. Every year more and more construction ties up so many roads that it really makes getting around the area a real bitch in the summer.

I seem to remember that JennyEngler has no problem raising our registration fees to help balance the budget a while ago.

I think it would be so fucking ironic if an RTA becomes a reality, less people would need to drive cars, and pay registration fees, right? I guess that will mean another increase to cover the short fall -- either that or this increase is really the middle finger to the whole State regarding any hope of a ergonomic, and efficient, mass transit system.

BTW - What assurances are there that this money would actually go toward roads and not used for some more corporate welfare? Hell, these guys have already bait and switched us a few times; how can we trust a single syllable that comes out of their pie holes?

**ghettopalmetto** · January-23-12, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by Baselinepunk

Here's an idea that would cost very little: ENFORCE THE DAMN WEIGHT LIMITS ON TRUCKS! Our roads would not be in such bad shape if over-weighted trucks were not pounding the Hell out of them.

Do you have any evidence at all of even a single over-weight truck travelling on Michigan highways?

FWIW, those weigh stations you see on the sides of the Interstate? Guess what those are for?

**Gistok** · January-23-12, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

I don't know about gardens and people growing their own food. I've met dozens of Germans including one that owned a motel and haven't met a single one with a garden growing their own food. Land also costs a lot more in Germany, so having a home with a backyard garden is very expensive. Not saying your friends in Germany don't all have gardens. They very well may. Just saying the ones I met didn't.

Dave, many German gardens are located on the outskirts of towns and cities, they are all often congregated together in specific "suburban" areas near population centers. You may have driven past them. My late aunt and uncle had one with a small garden hut [[or sometimes just a shed) on a small parcel, with an area for growing flowers and another area for vegetables or fruit trees. These are leased from the local authorities, and the "capital" put into them by previous folks leasing the land is paid back to them by the new "leasee's".

Here's an example...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/420...rule-book.html

**Baselinepunk** · January-23-12, 11:46 AM

"FWIW, those weigh stations you see on the sides of the Interstate? Guess what those are for?"

Do you mean that ones that are constantly closed and mobile patrols are used instead because it's more "cost effective"? Those ones?

"Do you have any evidence at all of even a single over-weight truck travelling on Michigan highways?"

Well, it's been discussed many times on this and other boards.

BTW: LANSING - State Police and the Department of Transportation [[MDOT) are using sensors buried under Michigan's highways to crack down on overweight trucks.

http://blog.mlive.com/cns/2009/02/hi...verweight.html

I guess if there not a problem then there would be no need for the sensors. Read the article.

"MDOT’s weigh-in-motion scales reported that approximately 1.5 million [[4.2%) of 37 million commercial motor vehicles weighed for the period October 1, 2008 through September 30, 2009 were overweight. Also, our analysis of 50 transport permits issued for overweight vehicles and loads indicated that those overweight vehicles were over the Michigan weight limits by an average 43.5%. Using USDOT information regarding costs to repair Michigan roads and bridges, we estimated that damage from overweight vehicles for the period resulted in an additional $135 million in Michigan road and bridge repair costs."

http://audgen.michigan.gov/comprpt/docs/r591017210.pdf

Sorry, that's the best I can do with a 5 minute google search.

/sarcasm

**ghettopalmetto** · January-23-12, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Baselinepunk

BTW: LANSING - State Police and the Department of Transportation [[MDOT) are using sensors buried under Michigan's highways to crack down on overweight trucks.

http://blog.mlive.com/cns/2009/02/hi...verweight.html

I guess if there not a problem then there would be no need for the sensors. Read the article.

"MDOT’s weigh-in-motion scales reported that approximately 1.5 million [[4.2%) of 37 million commercial motor vehicles weighed for the period October 1, 2008 through September 30, 2009 were overweight. Also, our analysis of 50 transport permits issued for overweight vehicles and loads indicated that those overweight vehicles were over the Michigan weight limits by an average 43.5%. Using USDOT information regarding costs to repair Michigan roads and bridges, we estimated that damage from overweight vehicles for the period resulted in an additional $135 million in Michigan road and bridge repair costs."

http://audgen.michigan.gov/comprpt/docs/r591017210.pdf

Sorry, that's the best I can do with a 5 minute google search.

/sarcasm

Sounds like they're already conducting the enforcement for which you asked.

Again, roadways deteriorate over time. If you don't maintain them, they fall apart, regardless if the loads placed upon them are within the legal limits or not.

**Baselinepunk** · January-23-12, 12:43 PM

"Sounds like they're already conducting the enforcement for which you asked."

lol! That's window dressing.

Open the damn weight stations and enforce the weight limits.

Of course road deteriorate. Properly paved roads and vehicles that are not over weight will provide a longer life to taxpayer roads.

We don't need anymore fees when the right solution/s are not being used.

**drjeff** · January-23-12, 12:47 PM

I, for one, would be in favor of tolls on Michigan interstate highways. Why shouldn't those who use these expensive roads pay more for their upkeep? And I say that as a daily user of I-94 or I-96.

The truckers would also then be forced to pay their fair share of upkeep, since the trucks do a lot more damage to the roads than cars. Right now I think they actually pay less tax on diesel than we do on gas.

**iheartthed** · January-23-12, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by coracle

$60 average increase per Car Registration Fee to repair our lousy Michigan roads is peanuts compared to the doubling of our gas price from $1.83 to $3.40 per gallon since the advent of Obama. Snyder is doing a sterling job and is addressing the previous 8 years of do nothing by the previous "Governor"

Don't let facts get in the way of a good anti-Obama rant: http://gasbuddy.com/gb_retail_price_chart.aspx

**gnome** · January-23-12, 01:04 PM

I don't have the figures at my fingertips, but trucks in Michigan can weigh up to 137,000 pounds, in Ohio, Indiana and most other mid-west states the limits are around 85,000 pounds.

**Detroitnerd** · January-23-12, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by gnome

I don't have the figures at my fingertips, but trucks in Michigan can weigh up to 137,000 pounds, in Ohio, Indiana and most other mid-west states the limits are around 85,000 pounds.

Yeah, I think that's part of it. And that's why the registration hike reflects a subsidy for large trucking operations... on the back of the ordinary motorist.

**hhockey** · January-23-12, 01:24 PM

Why not stop paying million dollar bonus checks to construction companies that complete a project under the contract time line?Let them complete it in the stated term of the contract and quit giving away millions of dollars for crappy work. Maybe if they take their time they wont have to come back 6 months later to repair their shoddy work.

**Novine** · January-23-12, 02:51 PM

"Maybe if they take their time they wont have to come back 6 months later to repair their shoddy work."

Where is this happening?

**ghettopalmetto** · January-23-12, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by Novine

"Maybe if they take their time they wont have to come back 6 months later to repair their shoddy work."

Where is this happening?

Everyone's an expert.

I'm gonna start threads telling everyone how shitty they are at THEIR jobs.

**lpg** · January-23-12, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by gnome

I don't have the figures at my fingertips, but trucks in Michigan can weigh up to 137,000 pounds, in Ohio, Indiana and most other mid-west states the limits are around 85,000 pounds.

Just talked to my neighbor who has driven a semi for 24 years. The weight limits are 164,000 lbs for Michigan and 80,000 lbs for the rest of the country. And he said any driver knows several ways around the scales.

**casscorridor** · January-23-12, 04:42 PM

Using registration fees seems like a rather backwards way of raising funds for transit, not to mention its a small pot to pull from. Most states use sales taxes, which has a much greater potential for revenue. Michigan should increase sales tax to 10% and use ballot initiatives to fund capital projects such as building a mass transit system in Metro Detroit.

**detbest** · January-23-12, 05:30 PM

This unfortunately is not a surprise. Also, note that MIchigan is one of the few states that taxes diesel at a lower rate than it does regular gasoline. All courtesy of Special Interests I'm sure.

Originally Posted by lpg

Just talked to my neighbor who has driven a semi for 24 years. The weight limits are 164,000 lbs for Michigan and 80,000 lbs for the rest of the country. And he said any driver knows several ways around the scales.

**Gistok** · January-23-12, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by Novine

"Maybe if they take their time they wont have to come back 6 months later to repair their shoddy work."

Where is this happening?

Novine, this may be somewhat peripheral to the discussion, but anyway... this summer Little Mack Rd. in SCS was rebuilt between 10 and 12 Mile Rd. because of the quick deterioration of the roadway that was rebuilt 10 years ago. Not sure of the specifics of who [[if anyone) got sued in order to redo the 10 year old stretch of quickly deteriorating roadway.

But after this summers repaving... a regular SCS citizen went along the route and did a visual inspection of the work, took photographs of parts that he thought wasn't quite up to snuff.... took the photos to a SCS city council meeting, which got the ball rolling to have each and every defect fixed. This delayed the reopening of the roadway by over a month, but at least it appears to have been done right. I guess the question one would ask is this... who did the roadway inspections before the fixes were demanded by SCS city council?? Macomb County Road Commission or MDOT?

I bet that kickbacks and other perks to "look the other way" happen way more than we may realize in roadway work around the state.