Bing, Snyder back new plan for 3-mile light-rail line on Woodward

**Doma** · January-06-12, 04:52 PM

Detroit Mayor Dave Bing and Governor Rick Snyder said today they're now backing plans for a three-mile light-rail line on Woodward Avenue, less than a month after scrapping plans for a larger line out to 8 Mile Road.

http://www.freep.com/article/2012010...text|FRONTPAGE

**Bham1982** · January-06-12, 05:02 PM

So that means no BRT?

There can only be light rail or BRT on Woodward. There aren't enough lanes of traffic to run both, plus private vehicles.

The 3 mile proposal is idiotic. Run a full system out to 8 Mile, or do BRT. The trolley proposal has no merit, and I don't care if zillionaires will pay for the whole thing.

**Gsgeorge** · January-06-12, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

So that means no BRT?

There can only be light rail or BRT on Woodward. There aren't enough lanes of traffic to run both, plus private vehicles.

The 3 mile proposal is idiotic. Run a full system out to 8 Mile, or do BRT. The trolley proposal has no merit, and I don't care if zillionaires will pay for the whole thing.

Settle down bud, the details aren't even announced yet and this broke literally fifteen minutes ago. It could be 3 miles of LRT combined with the recently-announced regional BRT system... No one's stupid enough to put LRT & BRT lanes next to each other on the same road. There would be a transfer.

**middetres** · January-06-12, 05:17 PM

The Woodward BRT can move to Cass Avenue at Grand Blvd. After its transfer stop for the M-1/Amtrak in New Center, it would continue express to the Rosa Parks Transit Center.

**Scottathew** · January-07-12, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

The 3 mile proposal is idiotic. Run a full system out to 8 Mile, or do BRT. The trolley proposal has no merit, and I don't care if zillionaires will pay for the whole thing.

I agree. We need to go all in or nothing.

The only thing a 3-mile segment does is give the perception that light rail is very limited and not very useful. Just like the People Mover, making it small is just going to cause it to be a parking shuttle, and not a place to get people to and from work.

It's time for political leaders to be bold and get a system that takes you from Hart Plaza [[or RPTC) not just to M-102, but beyond, into at least Royal Oak.

**Richard** · January-07-12, 10:06 AM

The political leaders for the most part really want not much to do with any rail type situation,LaHood is extremely pro rail light and heavy it took alot just to push the Detroit Chicago run ,mostly because of opposition from the state.So why was he used in a negative way when it comes to RBT?

Short term and long term ,a shorter light rail system has less carrying costs if everything goes south,if the suburbs wish to get on board they can by getting more involved which they should be doing anyways in the name of regionalism.

When Detroit was first started years ago I would bet the first paved road was big news even if it was only 6 blocks long , it goes back to perception and how others see Detroit as a progressive city it really does not matter if three years down the road it goes belly up, what does it say to the rest of the country that if Detroit can pull off rail in any form ?

When it comes down to shovels in the ground the clink of the shovel will be heard around the world because in these times when most cities are treading water Detroit is moving forward,right or wrong light rail is considered progressive .

**313WX** · January-07-12, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Richard

When Detroit was first started years ago I would bet the first paved road was big news even if it was only 6 blocks long , it goes back to perception and how others see Detroit as a progressive city it really does not matter if three years down the road it goes belly up, what does it say to the rest of the country that if Detroit can pull off rail in any form ?

You're missing the context however.

When Detroit first began, roads weren't a necessary part of a city [[it WAS seen as impressive because it was new to everyone) NOR was Detroit even 1/8 the size it is now [[in the city proper, let along region).

Mass transit should be a basic infrastructure investment to benefit everyone in the region. How does a 3-mile line from downtown to the New Center do that?

At least if it went to 8 Mile, people from the neighborhoods north of the city center would probably use it to commute downtown. Plus it would have been even more benificial in terms of tourism for the city and improving the quality of life for people in Midtown/Detroit/North End/Highland Park, as they could have rode the light rail line to the Michigan State Fair [[in the event it ever returns) and the Shoppes at Gateway Plaza [[in the event it ever comes to fruition)

**Brian1979** · January-07-12, 11:23 AM

I don't know what's wrong with my idea for this, of course I have never approached Bing or Snyder with my idea. My idea was to use the downtown section of the People Mover as a loop to turn trains around, it would function exactly like the loop in Chicago on a smaller scale it of course would only have one track going in one direction. The difference from today's People Mover to my idea would be that it would cross GCP and head up Woodward over the sidewalk like the current People Mover does now on many streets downtown.

I think ultimately it is going to have to go to 8 Mile but not right away, I'm fine with it terminating at Grand Blvd. The People Mover instead of going across Woodward between the Broderick Tower and Whitney Building would curve and follow Woodward over the sidewalk on the right side of the street going north and then turn around in New Center and come back down Woodward using the sidewalk on the right side of the street going south. This could have a spur to Henry Ford Hospital as well and connect Henry Ford Hospital to the rest of the DMC [[Harper, Hutzel and Children's).

I believe this is what the People Mover originally was suppose to do is be a downtown feeder of a larger mass transit system. The tracks going from Broadway to Bagley would be removed and trains would instead travel over Grand Circus Park to their respective sides of Woodward, a southbound train would come down Woodward past Adams and then curve over the park to where the People Mover's current allignment over Bagley, likewise it would complete the downtown loop and come up Broadway and travel over the park and go northbound to New Center and ultimately 8 Mile.

I don't understand why anyone would be against extending this to 8 Mile in the future, it could only help spur development along Woodward which is pretty much non exsistant from 6 Mile to 8 Mile, that corridor could be developed into something real nice.

**ThisIsForTheHeart** · January-07-12, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

You're missing the context however.

When Detroit first began, roads weren't a necessary part of a city [[it WAS seen as impressive because it was new to everyone) NOR was Detroit even 1/8 the size it is now [[in the city proper, let along region).

Mass transit should be a basic infrastructure investment to benefit everyone in the region. How does a 3-mile line from downtown to the New Center do that?

At least if it went to 8 Mile, people from the neighborhoods north of the city center would probably use it to commute downtown. Plus it would have been even more benificial in terms of tourism for the city and improving the quality of life for people in Midtown/Detroit/North End/Highland Park, as they could have rode the light rail line to the Michigan State Fair [[in the event it ever returns) and the Shoppes at Gateway Plaza [[in the event it ever comes to fruition)

In 1909 Woodward Avenue between Six Mile and Seven Mile Roads was the first mile of road paved with concrete.

How did that benefit the area?

**maxx** · January-12-12, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

So that means no BRT?

There can only be light rail or BRT on Woodward. There aren't enough lanes of traffic to run both, plus private vehicles.

The 3 mile proposal is idiotic. Run a full system out to 8 Mile, or do BRT. The trolley proposal has no merit, and I don't care if zillionaires will pay for the whole thing.

It may be idiotic but don't forget, they built the People Mover, that noisy eyesore that goes nowhere.

**Genesyxx** · January-06-12, 05:03 PM

summarizing the next 50 posts: WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

**animatedmartian** · January-06-12, 05:04 PM

I really hope this story develops quick. It doesn't make sense that they'd kill the plan outright and then suddenly announce that they'll support the shorter version. Either that or they are some very floppy politicians. I'm just a bit skeptical here until some definitive information comes out on what they plan on doing.

SteveJ · January-06-12, 05:06 PM

I don't believe anyone until I see shovels in the ground.

**Tig3rzhark** · January-08-12, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by SteveJ

I don't believe anyone until I see shovels in the ground.

Well said. Especially since that hasn't happened yet. There's no telling when they will change their mind.

**Jason** · January-06-12, 05:41 PM

It sounds like they're letting the private people build the Downtown to New Center stretch?

**BigD** · January-06-12, 05:45 PM

More info:

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120106/METRO/201060409/-Light-rail-not-dead-Private-backers-given-time-push-project-Detroit?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

**BasementBeat** · January-06-12, 05:45 PM

There's more on Detroit News...

Detroit

— Light rail is back on the table for Detroit, but private backers of the project have 90 days to convince officials the plan is viable, Mayor Dave Bing said Friday.
The announcement came after a meeting between Bing, U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood, Gov. Rick Snyder, lawmakers and business leaders supporting the M-1 rail project.

[...]

"Some time ago, there was an announcement made that light rail is off the table," Bing told reporters after the meeting Friday. "Based on the conversation that we've had today and the agreements we've had, we see light rail as a part of regional transportation. Light rail is not dead…. All of us are on the same page, understanding how important transportation is going to be in Detroit, southeastern Michigan and the state."

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...TRO/201060409/

**illwill** · January-06-12, 05:55 PM

I knew private investors HAD to be behindthis one. Detroit is going to have the worst rail system ever assembled. If youlook at other cities, they have very intense plans that have been studied foryears. Then you need guaranteed federal funds to help support it, money forrepairs, mechanics etc...

It's really sad to see Detroit in this position. If it ever happens...

**gthomas** · January-06-12, 06:06 PM

I hope this plan goes through! They need to realize how important this is for region and state. Ask the citizen's who will use it [[such as myself) to get around and not rely on just cars and trucks. I know for sure that this will create economic development and jobs. Come on BING!! Grow some balls and stand up for the citizen's..I VOTE DAN GILBERT for mayor..he seems to be the ONLY serious guy in turning our city around, he understands the importance of creating a strong core and how much of a asset it will be to have things in place for a functioning city.

**Richard** · January-06-12, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by gthomas

I hope this plan goes through! They need to realize how important this is for region and state. Ask the citizen's who will use it [[such as myself) to get around and not rely on just cars and trucks. I know for sure that this will create economic development and jobs. Come on BING!! Grow some balls and stand up for the citizen's..I VOTE DAN GILBERT for mayor..he seems to be the ONLY serious guy in turning our city around, he understands the importance of creating a strong core and how much of a asset it will be to have things in place for a functioning city.

one could probably name 15 people just on this site alone that if they were handed 200 million they would also be making a difference just as well.

Personally I would invest in a smoke factory then a mirror factory sense it seems to be so in vogue lately.

**gthomas** · January-06-12, 07:12 PM

Your right! If the people [[citizen's) actually had control on development by voting or something, it will get done! Give the citizen's bailouts for $1 million each and watch how much money will be put back into the community and other NEEDED assets. We are the one's who will use it, support it, and to do whatever's need to get it done. Simple!

Originally Posted by Richard

one could probably name 15 people just on this site alone that if they were handed 200 million they would also be making a difference just as well.

Personally I would invest in a smoke factory then a mirror factory sense it seems to be so in vogue lately.

**Richard** · January-06-12, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by gthomas

Your right! If the people [[citizen's) actually had control on development by voting or something, it will get done! Give the citizen's bailouts for $1 million each and watch how much money will be put back into the community and other NEEDED assets. We are the one's who will use it, support it, and to do whatever's need to get it done. Simple!

Once the new charter kicks in you will have a voice lots do not understand the impact of it yet but it will make most of this daily stuff a non issue,dictatorships do not work.

Not to thread jack .

**Detroit Stylin** · January-06-12, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

one could probably name 15 people just on this site alone that if they were handed 200 million they would also be making a difference just as well.

Personally I would invest in a smoke factory then a mirror factory sense it seems to be so in vogue lately.

Honestly I feel that you may want to invest in some spelling book and thesaurus factories, and then make yourself your first and only customer, so that way when you want to make a witty retort....you wont misspell simple words and make yourself look like an idiot...

But that's just me though..

**Richard** · January-06-12, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by Detroit Stylin

Honestly I feel that you may want to invest in some spelling book and thesaurus factories, and then make yourself your first and only customer, so that way when you want to make a witty retort....you wont misspell simple words and make yourself look like an idiot...

But that's just me though..

Actually I feel kinda privileged that you took the time out of you busy schedule to find fault in my sentence structure ,I take it you will be billing me for those services?