Is Fairlane the next mall to die?

[Meddle]

Strange that I don't remember it. I was there a lot in the 70s and 80s. I'm sure I was in that Wards quite a bit then, but for some reason I only remember Hudsons and Penneys.

The Wards I remember was Westland Mall.

[Huggybear]

A couple corrections, Jeepers took over part of Kohl's and Target took over the other part. In your lifetime I guarantee Montgomery Wards was an anchor as well.
[/INDENT]

I'm with Meddle on not remembering the Montgomery Ward's at Northland. Was it tucked in the way back somewhere? I'm trying to remember when I've even been in an MW store. The only one I can really remember visiting [[once) was the one on Michigan in Dearborn [[primarily because it was near Stormy Records or something like that). We always went to Hudson's unless it was something very basic [[and did not show, in case you could go to JCP for socks or T-shirts) - and I recall there being something declassé about MW.

Bham1982, I've surmised that I'm about 10 years older than you - and I would chalk up the difference between your recollection and my recollection to the more nostalgic way people remember things from their youth and how it seems that younger people are far less aware of differences of economic class and even race. I was an adult by the early 1990s, and people were talking about the decline of those two malls back then [[and I can attest that they had a broader customer base by then as well).

Gistok, the AAA building I am talking about is not the original brutalist building but the huge contemporary addition in front. I didn't mention Ford Motor Land Development because I did not recall precisely which projects they did. But taking it that they did everything, they have been pretty good about building a nice set of "corners."

HB

[313WX]

I'm with Meddle on not remembering the Montgomery Ward's at Northland. Was it tucked in the way back somewhere? I'm trying to remember when I've even been in an MW store. The only one I can really remember visiting [[once) was the one on Michigan in Dearborn [[primarily because it was near Stormy Records or something like that). We always went to Hudson's unless it was something very basic [[and did not show, in case you could go to JCP for socks or T-shirts) - and I recall there being something declassé about MW.

With respect to the bolded, you CAN say that. It certainly wasn't on any of the beaten paths.

The building and entrance to it faced J.L. Hudson Drive, so you couldn't see it off Northwestern
Highway, Greenfield, or even on the 8 Mile bridge.

Then again, Eastland's Montgomery Wards was the same way. You couldn't see it from Kelly or 8 Mile/Vernier either.

[DetroitPlanner]

I remember the Northland Ward's it was in the added to the wing where the Gap was back in the 1970's!! It became a National Wholesale Warehouse for a short period of time.

I don't recall a Kohls being in the mall, but I do remember Mainstreet, the store that Khols took over to get into the market.

[313WX]

This should help you guys out who weren't familiar with the Montgomery Wards and where it was located.

http://mall-hall-of-fame.blogspot.co...1_archive.html

BTW, you westsiders should be ashamed of yourselves, considering that I, an eastsider, know more about Northland than you do.

[Zackdog]

I worked at Fairlane for 3 years about 5 years ago. When Lord & Taylor closed, that entire wing past the DSW was walled off after they moved the stores to other places in the mall.

Lots of Mom and Pops, and comments from out-of-towners staying at the Hyatt were usually disappointing in the quality of the stores. Lots of people walking around, not many buying. The entrance where the buses drop everyone off at is always crowded but usually under control. There were only a few fights that I was ever aware of. Security always around so there is no reason to feel unsafe but I always was aware of my surroundings while walking to my car after the mall closed.

Once when leaving at night we were walking down one of the employee hallways to our exit and laying on the floor was a brand new but spilled Dairy Queen sundae. We all commented about how sad that was, a nice fresh sundae laying on the floor with its whipped cream and cherry. Someone was disappointed somewhere. The next morning when I came back in to work and was walking down the same hallway, the 'sundae' was now a puddle of vegetable oil with a cherry laying on top of it. I don't think I've eaten at DQ since.

[DetroitPlanner]

BTW, you westsiders should be ashamed of yourselves, considering that I, an eastsider, know more about Northland than you do.

LOL I could have sworn that Ward's came in around the 1980's as a replacement for the Greenfield/GR Store. Once Fairlane opened, it was a closer mall to home so that what where the family went. Northland fell off the radar till I was about 19 and driving again.

[Brian1979]

Has anyone been to Summit Place or Great Lakes Crossing recently?
I'm curious as to how they're doing.

Last I knew Summit Place was completely vacant and Great Lakes Crossings I was there once this summer it seemed moderately busy but not too much. I can't remember too many vacancies in GLC.

[softailrider]

Well, Zappos does somewhere around $1 Billion in sales annually, so somebody's buying shoes on-line.

One Billion is huge, no question about that.

When I go to buy shoes at a store, after I try them on, about 50% of the time [[or more) I don't like the way they fit, or maybe one doesn't fit right.

I duhnoo, buying a pair of shoes on line just doesn't make sense to me. On the other hand, I could see buying a dozen golf balls on line, or a fishing reel, or a sauce pan or something.

[rjk]

One Billion is huge, no question about that.

When I go to buy shoes at a store, after I try them on, about 50% of the time [[or more) I don't like the way they fit, or maybe one doesn't fit right.

I duhnoo, buying a pair of shoes on line just doesn't make sense to me. On the other hand, I could see buying a dozen golf balls on line, or a fishing reel, or a sauce pan or something.

I would imagine there are a lot of people buying shoes that they're familiar with. I've been buying the same type of running shoes online for the last four years.

Also I would think these online businesses would have to have a free return policy in order to survive.

[stasu1213]

The only mall that is on life support is Northland Mall. Fairlane is doing quite well.

[1986Tbird]

Hi everyone! First-time post.

Went to Fairlane on Dec. 26 midday and the place was packed. However, I saw very few people carrying shopping bags, and many [[I'd guesttimate 25-35%) were groups of teenagers seemingly in a hurry to get somewhere. What really struck me was the cheesiness of the merchandise in most of the stores I visited, including Macy's, a store a dropped a ton of money in during its days as Hudson's. Visited Twelve Oaks on Dec. 29, and it couldn't have been more different. Slightly fewer people, but I'd say about 50% were carrying purchases [[or returns!), and hardly any teens milling about on their own. The quality of the clothing and bedding at Macy's was infinitely better, and the store was not nearly as messy or bereft of merchandise. Not only that, but the mall itself looked totally different from the days I worked there in the mid-90's--refreshed, polished, and bright, while Fairlane is dated, dirty, and unwelcoming.

[SteveJ]

Hudson's used to be a good store with solid merchandise. Then it was changed to Marshall Fields which was ok and now its Macys which has transformed it into another Kohls where everything is 40% off yet really not much every truly goes on sale. I will say this, Somerset mall is by far the best mall in Michigan and I would say the midwest. I can't think of so many high quality stores in one location and its very clean and well kept. You wouldn't realize that its 15 years old. Even going to downtown Chicago, Somerset has it killed because you just don't find Saks, Nieman Marcus, Nordstrom, Macys, and all the small high end stores within 5 min walking distance. Even the ped bridge over Big Beaver is still neat.

[Bham1982]

Is there another Oakland Mall I don't know about? I was just there a few weeks ago and I don't think there were more than three vacancies in the whole mall. I probably go to OM on a monthly basis and it's been nowhere close to the condition that you descibe it as being.

I'm sorry, but unless something changed radically in the last few weeks, this just isn't true.

Go to the JCPenney wing [[the two-level section of the mall).

This section of Oakland is largely vacant, and many of the existing tenants are obvious temporary flea-market retailers. The puppy mill store is extremely sketchy, and no Class-A mall would allow such a business.

There's also a very sad and dejected-looking Mall Santa, with no one waiting for him.

[Detroit500]

Twelve Oaks is really a first rate mall. You have stores that cater to a variety of price points [[from Sears through Nordstrom) and it is maintained well. There are a bit too many teenagers that visit the mall for my taste, but overall its a very nice mall.

Great Lakes Crossing is [[and has always been) in my opinion a very odd mall. Recently they have renamed it "Great Lakes Crossing Outlets" however I had always found it to be an "outlet" store. Stores like Ralph Lauren Factory Store have come and gone over the years, but it was always anchored by the Saks and Neiman Marcus Outlets. Now there are some stores like Forever 21 which are not outlets, and some that are outlets and factory stores. Its very odd in my opinion in terms of the mix of stores, but it is often very packed. The design of the center is inconvenient [[if you don't know where you're going to shop inside the mall) but it appears successful. One thing that has always surprised/interested me is how the flooring is carpeted instead of tiled like most malls.

Summit Place was nearly in decline from the minute it opened. Though as a child I remember the Summit Place Kids Club sending information to us at home.

Somerset has a great mix of retail for those who can afford to shop there [[or those who are willing to spend those prices). The Macys at Somerset is still relatively first rate despite the IMMENSE decline that store has taken since Macys took over the chain.

Its a shame Fairlaine lost its Saks and Lord & Taylor. Saks its easy to understand, and Lord & Taylor to a certain extent as well. Even more problematic is that it reveals the entire problem with the Detroit housing sector. Wealthy people keep moving from neighborhood to neighborhood building new houses from here to there and then building malls, stores, etc. which leave mall vacancies and blight in their way. The reality is in 15 years more of these malls are going to look like Somerset and the department store model is going to fade. You won't need all these stores, and the hulking anchor store model is going to be replaced probably by the more boutique model or an extension of the brilliant strategy JC Penney has come up with by creating "stores within the store" [[ex. Sephora). How else will these department stores deal with their hulking retail space in old locations.

As much as I despise Macys, you have to be impressed they have stayed at all these declining malls in the inner-ring suburbs. Even Daytons/Hudsons/Fields to stay that long was pretty impressive. I would imagine, however, the fact that anchor stores tend to own their buildings and don't pay rent might have a lot to do with it.

[DetroitPlanner]

I was in Fairlane yesterday. Saw a bunch of new stores/expansions I've never seen before most notable is that forever 21 is going to take up a huge space on the top level above that odd 2 story but only one story H&M. Both H&M and Forever 21 are too big for the mall. Maybe they should have moved thme to the old L&T space instead with one on the first floor and the other above? That would have at least generated some traffic down that corridor. I could also be that these tradidional malls are now just too darned big for the new retail reality. 12 Oaks may be fine now, but what would happen if suddenly teeny boppers had somewhere else to socialize? 12 Oaks, and most malls really don't sell much that interest me any longer. The mix of stores is weighted too heavilly into cheap clothing and not much else.

While this may appeal to teens, it don't to someone who needs to dress a bit better.

[Zacha341]

"Puppy mill" LOL! Ick. If I was currently 'interested' in pets in my life I'd never buy one from a mall! I'd go to a animal rescue or the humane society.

The puppy mill store is extremely sketchy, and no Class-A mall would allow such a business.

[DetroitPlanner]

The puppy mill store is extremely sketchy, and no Class-A mall would allow such a business.

Well the mall I believe you stated is one of the best has one.

[Zacha341]

Hmmm, I did not know 12 Oaks had one. I know Livonia mall did back in the day....

Well the mall I believe you stated is one of the best has one.

[SteveJ]

It definitely seemed like back in the day their were a lot more places selling puppies and kittens.

[313WX]

Well the mall I believe you stated is one of the best has one.

Yeah, but THAT puppy mill is different, it's not sketchy like the one at Oakland Mall. They only sell pure-bred dogs and cats at Twelve Oaks, and only those with a upper middle class income can afford to adopt the pets there.

[Meddle]

There was a time when most malls had pet stores. The younger kids would hang out in them while the parents shopped elsewhere.

Same with the fish/hamsters/birds areas at Kresge's.

[Zacha341]

Ah-good point! Brings back memories. I used to love to hang out there as a kid and was inspired to have my own aquarium from these early experiences!

...Fish/hamsters/birds areas at Kresge's.

[Gistok]

Ah Puppies at the mall... reminds me of the old Saturday Night Live skit [[which unfortunately SNL has cleared Youtube of all their skits)... about the dying mall and the Scotch Tape Store... they were discussing that sales were so bad at the Puppy Palace... that even the puppies were having puppies!

[Huggybear]

I would imagine, however, the fact that anchor stores tend to own their buildings and don't pay rent might have a lot to do with it.

If I recall correctly, for most malls for most of history, anchor tenants have only been in for their interior buildout, utilities and percentage rent. They don't pay their shell construction costs or a share of common-area maintenance [[which today means about anything but the capital costs of building the mall itself - and depending on the developer, this might also cover the costs of things like food courts).

Anchors get a sweetheart deal because anchors drive traffic to the mall - without your Macy's or Sears or whatever, you're never going to build an enclosed mall - and you end up being a smaller generic strip center. And in a sense, it is more fair - since anchors have much higher costs of operation [[administration, stock, dedicated security) than a ma-and-pa store on the third level... On top of what anchors pay, the smaller merchants also pay PSF rent and their portion of CAM [[effectively covering the anchors' portion) as a price of doing business. Let's face it - you wouldn't drive 10 miles to go to Carnival Cuts, but you might stop there if you had to go to Macy's for a sale.

Under the traditional mall leasing model [[reportedly originating at Tel-Twelve in the 1960s and spreading nationwide), it's very tough for an enclosed mall to fail in an economic sense unless it can't collect enough from its tenants to cover ongoing maintenance. Ironically, that appears to be the motivator for Tel-Twelve's conversion into a strip center.

As for Northland [[which predates the Tel-Twelve model), the history appears to be the Macy's store was built by Hudson's at its own expense, it's now fully amortized [[and apparently paid for itself very quickly 50 years ago), and it has the ability to house certain regional operations [[at essentially free rent). So you probably don't need phenomenal sales to support the facility [[which is probably why they don't seem to be trying too hard at that location), and given some glimpses I have had through the big doors near furniture, a lot of merchandise for other stores is being warehoused there.

If I had to pick something that was emblematic of the "failure" of Northland, it's not the mall itself [[which I think is fairly functional) - it would actually be the decay of the retail parts of Macy's, which as far as I can tell have had virtually no capital investment for 25 years [[for example, the brick floor in the back of the first level was there in the mid-1980s and the neon awning out front went in during the late 1980s). Perhaps the saddest thing of all is the plaque near the mall entrance of Hudsonians in World War II that was pulled from the first store. Where will it end up? In a newer Macy's near some poor-quality house-brand clothes? At Somerset, you can see a drinking fountain that met that fate.

HB