The Buena Sala Apartments, circa 1929 FOR SALE

**davewindsor** · December-25-11, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by softailrider

Probably not that one though - unless the buyer has some elaborate tax dodge in mind that's beyond me. Any knowledgeable buyer who actually wants one of those places would look for a functional one, rather then invest in something like that. Trust me, there are owners of apartment buildings in this city that are occupied and are going concerns, who want out and can't sell for anything resembling a decent price.

That building will never be rehabed in any of our lifetimes. It is a complete and total liability- not an asset in any sense of the word

Hard to say. I understand what you're saying. The cost to rehab is not worth it. I also went around that building and neighborhood when e-bayer badboy had it for sale and right across the street were well kept apartment buildings.

A couple months ago, I went on that Palmer Park tour and saw some of the apartments being rehabbed as condos in La Vogue, paid for by different gov't rehab grants. Whoever thought that the vacant La Vogue surrounded by other vacant apartment buildings would be rehabbed? How could this area be better than the one Buena is in? Buena is probably not worth more than the $7,500 Badboy sold it for. Even as a parking lot for the buildings across the street it might be worth a couple grand, so it's not worthless. But, that's all moot anyway because I don't even believe that Scammer Pamer is selling a marketable deed.

**Roadmaster49** · December-25-11, 11:37 PM

That's one of the strangest ebay auctions I have ever seen. WHO can afford to buy all of those properties in one auction.

**Zacha341** · December-26-11, 07:55 AM

Right-o! This persons agenda is not about selling. The properties 'sold' remain unoccupied. Just another opportunist!

Originally Posted by davewindsor

But, that's all moot anyway because I don't even believe that Scammer Pamer is selling a marketable deed.

**Meddle** · December-26-11, 08:35 AM

eBay = fraud

capiche' ?

**Zacha341** · December-26-11, 08:46 AM

eBay has sellers who sell stolen goods and participate in fraud. But not all. I buy and sell on eBay and for the most part my experience in both areas is great.

There are many companies that have legitimate merchandise at great deals on eBay especially computer peripherals like cables, ram, memory cards, parts and the like [[which sell far, FAR less than retail). And there are individuals on eBay that sell things once and a while.

I'm not happy with eBay lack of policing of sellers that have repeated issues and reports. However, if you get too many no-pay strikes you loose ability to bid, too low feedback and you're toast etc.

Originally Posted by Meddle

eBay = fraud

capiche' ?

**jackie5275** · December-27-11, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Here's the building back up on eBay, six days to go. 'Happy holidays' indeed. Read the feedback... one negative has been removed. The positive one were probably posted by the buyers 'too soon' in the game before they found out the truth.

As a BUYER you can't retract positive feedback once given [[which is why I wait a few days after purchases I make on eBay to make sure it's working or whatever before leaving a pos feedback.)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/138-UNITS-SA...item3f10d41bcc

I looked at her feedback info. The positive ones are from sellers where she bought something. Most of the items are small purchases for $1 or less that are probably used just to bump up her "positive" feedback.

**Zacha341** · December-28-11, 07:50 AM

Yeah, that's how the scam sellers build up their feedback. Buyers who deal with this person should a. wait until the transaction 'clears' before leaving a feedback [[you have up to 30 days - by then they'd know they've been scammed b. do their homework to see that these properties keep recirculating under her name [[by basic googling) c. contact eBays administration to report fraudulent transactions.

The 'buyer' under eBays policies has more power to put forth claims thru the 'resolution' center, leave a negative feedback, and levy a complaint in general than a 'seller' if they choose to use their power.

Originally Posted by jackie5275

I looked at her feedback info. The positive ones are from sellers where she bought something. Most of the items are small purchases for $1 or less that are probably used just to bump up her "positive" feedback.

**Pamsproperty** · January-09-12, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

I think I'd stay away from this seller per how the listings are going and the relisting of buildings that remain squalid. Some of the photos on the site do NOT reflect the current condition of the buildings from just a drive by glance. Not to mention how much more they deteriorated inside since they were listed last year! I googled 'Pamproperty scam Detroit' and found a few interesting things:

http://pamsproperty.blogspot.com/201...from-ebay.html

OK...all you folks. Here I am Pam in the Flesh..Now you got something to say then you need to say it. But first of all let's get some things straight. There are MULTIPLE ways to hold ownership of property so don't go around talking about what I don't owned! Secondly. YES these properties are being repeatedly re listed on eBay because the %O[[)Q@%@% eBayers that bid on these properties never pay and further more 9 out of 10 times win the auction is over you never even hear from the jerks. Third as for the complaints that are on the internet...anyone in any type of Business is going to have a certain amount of complaints otherwise they are not truly in business. Plus there is always more than one side to any story. Now each and ever one of you is posting all this negative stuff and you don't have a clue. None of you have ever bought anything from me to be calling me a scam.. sounds like you are the ones doing the scamming and posting lies on the internet. Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and buy something and see if you don't get your deed. All of my transactions are handled through a title company from beginning to the end and I don't get any money until the title company is finished doing what they have to do. Now I suggest that each and every one of you stop with the defamation of character and out right lies before you find yourself with a lawsuit against you. And further more eBay has not done any thing because there is nothing for them to do. I abide by ALL of eBay rules and regulations. And last but not least things that I buy on ebay are the things that I want NOT to bump feedback up. That is not necessary. I take great pride in what I do AND the way that I do it and I do not stand still and let other people just say what they want and tell lies. I suggest in the future that before you go around posting negative untruthful information about me or anyone else you reach out and ask them FIRST! If you don't have the money to buy the properties then don't run around jealous and causing trouble. It is not my fault that you all are apparently broke, busted and disgusted and trying to take your sad situation out on others. If you want to know something stop guessing and just ask folks....just ask.

**Pamsproperty** · January-09-12, 12:55 PM

OK...all you folks. Here I am Pam in the Flesh..Now you got something to say then you need to say it. But first of all let's get some things straight. There are MULTIPLE ways to hold ownership of property so don't go around talking about what I don't owned! Secondly. YES these properties are being repeatedly re listed on eBay because the %O[[)Q@%@% eBayers that bid on these properties never pay and further more 9 out of 10 times win the auction is over you never even hear from the jerks. Third as for the complaints that are on the internet...anyone in any type of Business is going to have a certain amount of complaints otherwise they are not truly in business. Plus there is always more than one side to any story. Now each and ever one of you is posting all this negative stuff and you don't have a clue. None of you have ever bought anything from me to be calling me a scam.. sounds like you are the ones doing the scamming and posting lies on the internet. Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and buy something and see if you don't get your deed. All of my transactions are handled through a title company from beginning to the end and I don't get any money until the title company is finished doing what they have to do. Now I suggest that each and every one of you stop with the defamation of character and out right lies before you find yourself with a lawsuit against you. And further more eBay has not done any thing because there is nothing for them to do. I abide by ALL of eBay rules and regulations. And last but not least things that I buy on ebay are the things that I want NOT to bump feedback up. That is not necessary. I take great pride in what I do AND the way that I do it and I do not stand still and let other people just say what they want and tell lies. I suggest in the future that before you go around posting negative untruthful information about me or anyone else you reach out and ask them FIRST! If you don't have the money to buy the properties then don't run around jealous and causing trouble. It is not my fault that you all are apparently broke, busted and disgusted and trying to take your sad situation out on others. If you want to know something stop guessing and just ask folks....just ask.

**Pamsproperty** · January-09-12, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Yeah, that's how the scam sellers build up their feedback. Buyers who deal with this person should a. wait until the transaction 'clears' before leaving a feedback [[you have up to 30 days - by then they'd know they've been scammed b. do their homework to see that these properties keep recirculating under her name [[by basic googling) c. contact eBays administration to report fraudulent transactions.

The 'buyer' under eBays policies has more power to put forth claims thru the 'resolution' center, leave a negative feedback, and levy a complaint in general than a 'seller' if they choose to use their power.

OK...all you folks. Here I am Pam in the Flesh..Now you got something to say then you need to say it. But first of all let's get some things straight. There are MULTIPLE ways to hold ownership of property so don't go around talking about what I don't owned! Secondly. YES these properties are being repeatedly re listed on eBay because the %O[[)Q@%@% eBayers that bid on these properties never pay and further more 9 out of 10 times win the auction is over you never even hear from the jerks. Third as for the complaints that are on the internet...anyone in any type of Business is going to have a certain amount of complaints otherwise they are not truly in business. Plus there is always more than one side to any story. Now each and ever one of you is posting all this negative stuff and you don't have a clue. None of you have ever bought anything from me to be calling me a scam.. sounds like you are the ones doing the scamming and posting lies on the internet. Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and buy something and see if you don't get your deed. All of my transactions are handled through a title company from beginning to the end and I don't get any money until the title company is finished doing what they have to do. Now I suggest that each and every one of you stop with the defamation of character and out right lies before you find yourself with a lawsuit against you. And further more eBay has not done any thing because there is nothing for them to do. I abide by ALL of eBay rules and regulations. And last but not least things that I buy on ebay are the things that I want NOT to bump feedback up. That is not necessary. I take great pride in what I do AND the way that I do it and I do not stand still and let other people just say what they want and tell lies. I suggest in the future that before you go around posting negative untruthful information about me or anyone else you reach out and ask them FIRST! If you don't have the money to buy the properties then don't run around jealous and causing trouble. It is not my fault that you all are apparently broke, busted and disgusted and trying to take your sad situation out on others. If you want to know something stop guessing and just ask folks....just ask.

**Pamsproperty** · January-09-12, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

I don't know if this is a legitimate listing. I have yet to see any proof that this out-of-state vendor owns any of the 100 apartment building listings in Detroit she's posted for sale on e-bay over the the past few years.

She's listed a 14 unit apartment building in Boston-Edison that was listed half a dozen and claimed that it was 75% rented. When I asked her for a copy of the financials and rent roll she said her partner wouldn't provide it to her and she wouldn't provide it. How can someone sell apartment buildings and not provide financial data, rent rolls [[if occupied), no insurance receipts, no utility bills? She can't even provide access to these buildings so any potential buyer can view the inside prior to bidding. She seems to have her user name attached to every Detroit apartment building that's been listed on e-bay by other users over half a year ago, I remember when user badboy posted this listing over half a year ago and now pamsproperty has it. Why is she only selling apartment buildings from Detroit if she's from out-of-state? We searched her website on another thread and she doesn't operate in Michigan. If you look at user feedback, you'll see that she pumped up her history with a lot of $1 ebay purchases. She also has a negative feedback on past real estate listings.

I don't trust this e-bayer.

OK...all you folks. Here I am Pam in the Flesh..Now you got something to say then you need to say it. But first of all let's get some things straight. There are MULTIPLE ways to hold ownership of property so don't go around talking about what I don't owned! Secondly. YES these properties are being repeatedly re listed on eBay because the %O[[)Q@%@% eBayers that bid on these properties never pay and further more 9 out of 10 times win the auction is over you never even hear from the jerks. Third as for the complaints that are on the internet...anyone in any type of Business is going to have a certain amount of complaints otherwise they are not truly in business. Plus there is always more than one side to any story. Now each and ever one of you is posting all this negative stuff and you don't have a clue. None of you have ever bought anything from me to be calling me a scam.. sounds like you are the ones doing the scamming and posting lies on the internet. Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and buy something and see if you don't get your deed. All of my transactions are handled through a title company from beginning to the end and I don't get any money until the title company is finished doing what they have to do. Now I suggest that each and every one of you stop with the defamation of character and out right lies before you find yourself with a lawsuit against you. And further more eBay has not done any thing because there is nothing for them to do. I abide by ALL of eBay rules and regulations. And last but not least things that I buy on ebay are the things that I want NOT to bump feedback up. That is not necessary. I take great pride in what I do AND the way that I do it and I do not stand still and let other people just say what they want and tell lies. I suggest in the future that before you go around posting negative untruthful information about me or anyone else you reach out and ask them FIRST! If you don't have the money to buy the properties then don't run around jealous and causing trouble. It is not my fault that you all are apparently broke, busted and disgusted and trying to take your sad situation out on others. If you want to know something stop guessing and just ask folks....just ask.

**gnome** · January-09-12, 01:14 PM

Does your computer have a missing comma key?

**Richard** · January-09-12, 02:25 PM

Pam when you base property on your perceived value and not real market conditions across the US ,which if you list on ebay you are entering a whole different market availability ,you open the door for speculation and comments as a realtor you should be used to that .

High bid was $70,000 and considering the amount of repairs needed one could take the same amount and buy something in another state ready to go and receive a RTI immediately without the headaches and time frame of a complete rehab.

**softailrider** · January-09-12, 06:02 PM

She sounds like that Detroit Lion player who tweated something about everybody being broke and miserable ect. ect. ect.

If i was stupid enough to buy one of those stripped out apartment buildings she's trying to sell I would end up being miserable indeed.

**MissingDetroit** · January-09-12, 06:38 PM

"Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and buy something and see if you don't get your deed."

It takes a certain kind of twisted-brain lunatic to issue an instruction like this.

Plus 5 for hopping up and down threatening lawsuits about your character being "defamed." Nice touch.

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · January-09-12, 08:46 PM

That tirade really would encourage me to do business with her. As well as saying "...what I don't owned."

**davewindsor** · January-09-12, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by Pamsproperty

That is not necessary. I take great pride in what I do AND the way that I do it and I do not stand still and let other people just say what they want and tell lies. I suggest in the future that before you go around posting negative untruthful information about me or anyone else you reach out and ask them FIRST! If you don't have the money to buy the properties then don't run around jealous and causing trouble. It is not my fault that you all are apparently broke, busted and disgusted and trying to take your sad situation out on others. If you want to know something stop guessing and just ask folks....just ask.

I have the money to buy it and your comments are the most ridiculous thing I've heard. I have also been scammed before on a real estate deal before and e-bay didn't do anything about it. Why buy a scam to know it's a scam? The burden is on you to prove it's legit. Who is the title company you use and what is their contact info so it can be verified that it's legit? Why is it that on that apartment building that was 70% rented on Webb, you could not provide rent rolls or expense statements or access for inspection? How come you can't show any of the properties? Who maintains them? Why can't you provide a contact for that property manager for the pm to show them? How is it even possible you don't know any financial information like utility bills for the past year on an occupied property you owned? Explain the inconsistencies in the title searches that were done by another user. It's a very shady business practice hiding typical due diligence questions and that website exposing you proves there's something for the public to be concerned over with the way you do business. You can't sue someone telling the truth. You have to prove that what they are saying are lies for it to be slander. I'm calling you out. Prove you're legit and answer those questions.

PS, Yes, I've asked you the same questions in PM and you evaded it. Glad you're on a public forum to answer these questions. If you evade the questions again, it's pretty obvious what you are.

**gnome** · January-09-12, 09:52 PM

Poor Pam'sProperty, she's walked into a dog kennel wearing baloney underwear.

**Zacha341** · January-09-12, 09:53 PM

^^^^ That's an image G! Hah! I love a template response [[pamsproperty).

One answer fits all. Weee! Copy - paste, copy 'and' paste 'again' was functioning well.

Use of paragraphs absent...

Originally Posted by gnome

Does your computer have a missing comma key?

**GoGrixdale** · January-09-12, 10:17 PM

:'-)

Look at the DYes family banding together to denounce bad business dealings.

Calling robber barons to the carpet with a unified "We won't stand for this!" even against the least of us or ours.

Checks and balance ideas being proffered to protect the uneducated and having those ideas received in respectful deference.

...and all regardless of proximity to 8Mile...

Maybe if the Canadian hordes cross the river and invade we can really show 'em what we're made of and what it means to be "from Detroit".

[[sniff)

**finster** · January-09-12, 10:28 PM

So does this mean this person just picks random property and offers to sell their interest [[which happens to be zero) via a quit claim deed for whatever quick cash they can get? The properties are abandoned so nobody complains and the purchaser legally obtains whatever non existant interest the seller has. Unfortunately it is legal to quit claim your interest on any property to anybody you want I believe. What a legal way to scam somebody out of their hard earned money.

I wonder if there are any laws against this? Buyer beware, indeed.

**evangeline** · January-28-12, 10:47 PM

Well, eBay doesn't particularly care about its buyers or sellers, but it does care about collecting its fees. Pam's offer to end the auction early if you make her a sweet offer is essentially screwing eBay out of their piece of the deal. Click on "Report item"-> Listing practices -> Avoiding eBay fees-> Offers outside eBay/ Offering choices/ Requiring additional purchases. She's doing it all.

Not that it will stop her in the long run, but if she's going to profit from our city's problems, let's at least make it a little harder!

**riviera** · January-29-12, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by evangeline

Well, eBay doesn't particularly care about its buyers or sellers, but it does care about collecting its fees. Pam's offer to end the auction early if you make her a sweet offer is essentially screwing eBay out of their piece of the deal. Click on "Report item"-> Listing practices -> Avoiding eBay fees-> Offers outside eBay/ Offering choices/ Requiring additional purchases. She's doing it all.

Not that it will stop her in the long run, but if she's going to profit from our city's problems, let's at least make it a little harder!

Real estate on eBay doesn't work like that. It's really a very bad deal to list with them.

When you list you pay a $100 listing fee which is non refundable. There is no final valuation fee only the original payment. This means that eBay gets paid either way regardless of the outcome of the sale. If a buyer doesn't pay [[which is really common) then you still lose the eBay fee either way.

**AmsterdamWarehouse** · April-08-12, 09:23 PM

Scott and Pam Burton, notorious eBay scammers. I just did my homework and found a host of info on them:

http://www.worldlawdirect.com/forum/...s-ohio-11.html

rhislink brings you to just 1 of many pages on that forum on this scam couple

greetings from Israel & happy Pesach

**AmsterdamWarehouse** · April-08-12, 09:43 PM

and another one for ya

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/11/te...ewanted=2&_r=1

Buena Sala is in Wayne District, I understand? How come the ownership in USA is not always registered with the court and/or municipality. In Holland, this sort of a thing is just inconceivable. There is ALWAYS info on legal ownership available in the public records