Civil Disobedience Against the Detroit Emergency Manager Pledged

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Maybe Jesse should buy a house and live in Detroit....Six mile and Mound seems cozy

Do you really want him here ALL THE TIME?

[Hypestyles]

will there be bus-pooling to get to Snyder's neighborhood?

[rjk]

"We marched, fought and died for our right to vote. Enough is enough. We will not allow democracy to be dismantled.”


Somehow the above comment is lost on the citizenry because very few of the people in Detroit actually vote. The ones that do seem to elect idiots.

[Detroitnerd]

It would be nice to think that this is a typical either-or choice, but it's more complex than that.

Have many of the Democratic leaders of Detroit been corrupt and crooked, incompetent and impotent? Sure's shootin'.

But the state has a terrible record. In fact, you could argue that Lansing, through laws passed and budgets tweaked, has always left Detroit behind the 8 ball. And take a look at their "rescue" of DPS, in which they took a schools system that operated at a surplus and left it deep in debt. Is that the kind of rescue they're planning?

That's like being rescued from a frying pan, by removing the pan...

[313WX]

It would be nice to think that this is a typical either-or choice, but it's more complex than that.

Have many of the Democratic leaders of Detroit been corrupt and crooked, incompetent and impotent? Sure's shootin'.

But the state has a terrible record. In fact, you could argue that Lansing, through laws passed and budgets tweaked, has always left Detroit behind the 8 ball. And take a look at their "rescue" of DPS, in which they took a schools system that operated at a surplus and left it deep in debt. Is that the kind of rescue they're planning?

That's like being rescued from a frying pan, by removing the pan...

Isn't DPS still in debt under their control?

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

It would be nice to think that this is a typical either-or choice, but it's more complex than that.

Have many of the Democratic leaders of Detroit been corrupt and crooked, incompetent and impotent? Sure's shootin'.

But the state has a terrible record. In fact, you could argue that Lansing, through laws passed and budgets tweaked, has always left Detroit behind the 8 ball. And take a look at their "rescue" of DPS, in which they took a schools system that operated at a surplus and left it deep in debt. Is that the kind of rescue they're planning?

That's like being rescued from a frying pan, by removing the pan...

DN, while I can see your point that the state does not have a great track record, I would like to make two relevant points.

First, Management of Detroit's finances could not possibly be worse. Honestly- and I mean honestly- small children understand that you can spend only what you have. The city's finances have been on this path for years. No one [[in power) cared very much because it was only going to go bankrupt later. No serious long term planning. So while the state doesn't have a good track record, no track record is worse than the city's. I would rather be operated on by a surgeon who has had some patients die than be operated on by someone with no discernible medical background at all.

Secondly, the purpose of an EM [[or for that matter, a bankruptcy judge), is merely to set the finances straight: to adjust the outgoing to square with the incoming [[by various means, including service cuts, layoffs, setting aside contracts to cut pay, putting some city services up to bid, etc). There are not there to make policies, establish/change programs etc [[of course it would have major policy consequences). The EM is to fix the city's finances, not it's politics. After the budget is stabilized, the city would gain back it's power [[although I think it stays under review by the state for a period of time). It's not a power grab by the state. It's crisis management, and temporary.

[Scottathew]

Mikey brings clarity to the situation.

The state has better things to do than take over Detroit's finances. However, Detroit refuses to do anything.

Detroit has options:

1) Balance the budget
2) Let the state takeover

It's that simple. Either balance your budget, or lose the ability to govern yourself.

[CASSTECH1981]

Jesse Jackson is a seagull politician.........flies in, makes allot of noise, craps all over the place, and flies away.

[Wesley Mouch]

I agree with you Mikeg. Some people seem to be saying that EM and bankruptcy are terrible things. As if there were a really pleasant alternative. This patient is badly in need of both chemo and radiation. Cough drops and aspirin aren't on the table.

Well said -- where were the protesters against the ineptitude of the government over the last thirty years. They missed the chance for appropriate anger.

Hating the EFM is like hating your doctor for telling you you're fat, excuse me 'food-intake-imbalanced'.

[trotwood]

Detroit City Councilwoman Kay Everett was signing, 'Onward Christian Soldiers' after the council reject the handover of Cobo Hall to regional authorities.

The late Kay Everett wasn't on council during the Cobo fiasco.Barbara Rose Collins did the singing during the session you refer to.

[coracle]

There is no long term solution to Detroit's problem until it's depopulation is stopped and reversed. Until that is achieved there will be less and less people paying more and more for diminishing services. The first step has to be to take the current medicine and at the same time work on attracting people to move in. Civil disobedience and exploitation of racial differences are the policies of people that have got Detroit to where it is now and are doomed to exacerbate the problem.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Well said -- where were the protesters against the ineptitude of the government over the last thirty years. They missed the chance for appropriate anger.

Hating the EFM is like hating your doctor for telling you you're fat, excuse me 'food-intake-imbalanced'.

Hey, my doctor has told me that. It's unpleasant to hear, but the good doc did not stuff twinkies down my throat...

[mam2009]

Hey, my doctor has told me that. It's unpleasant to hear, but the good doc did not stuff twinkies down my throat...

But Mikey, that IS sort of what the state has been doing. Actually, it would probably be more accurate to use this analogy -- let's say your boss tells you that you need to finish a project by 5:00 pm, but he takes away your phone and your computer and your pen ran out of ink and you can't borrow these items from anyone else because your nearest co-worker is too far away from you for you to make it back to your office on time [[and he's highly competitive and has a 4:45 deadline himself anyway) and even if you could drive to the store to get a pen, you don't have enough gas in your car [[and only $.50 in your bank account) to make it back to the office.

The state expects the City to be financially solvent 1.) in a period where the state has experienced a prolonged recession and the country has experienced an historic mortgage crisis and massive job loss, 2.) while reducing Detroit's revenue sharing dollars and 3.) in spite of decades of state and federal policies that encouraged urban disinvestment and out-migration [[i.e. mandating the City provide water to outlying suburban communities).

The "good doc" HAS been stuffing us with Twinkies. Maybe he just didn't know they were Twinkies or maybe he just didn't care as long as his other patients were doing ok. Maybe he thought he was giving us broccoli. But didn't he wonder why we just kept getting fatter and fatter and developing diabetes, hypertension and heart disease? Why do we have to go into a diabetic coma in order for him to notice he was really giving us Twinkies? Now he's telling us he has to cut off both of our legs. How will we stand on our own then if he's just gonna go back to giving us Twinkies after the surgery?

[313WX]

But Mikey, that IS sort of what the state has been doing. Actually, it would probably be more accurate to use this analogy -- let's say your boss tells you that you need to finish a project by 5:00 pm, but he takes away your phone and your computer and your pen ran out of ink and you can't borrow these items from anyone else because your nearest co-worker is too far away from you for you to make it back to your office on time [[and he's highly competitive and has a 4:45 deadline himself anyway) and even if you could drive to the store to get a pen, you don't have enough gas in your car [[and only $.50 in your bank account) to make it back to the office.

The state expects the City to be financially solvent 1.) in a period where the state has experienced a prolonged recession and the country has experienced an historic mortgage crisis and massive job loss, 2.) while reducing Detroit's revenue sharing dollars and 3.) in spite of decades of state and federal policies that encouraged urban disinvestment and out-migration [[i.e. mandating the City provide water to outlying suburban communities).

The "good doc" HAS been stuffing us with Twinkies. Maybe he just didn't know they were Twinkies or maybe he just didn't care as long as his other patients were doing ok. Maybe he thought he was giving us broccoli. But didn't he wonder why we just kept getting fatter and fatter and developing diabetes, hypertension and heart disease? Why do we have to go into a diabetic coma in order for him to notice he was really giving us Twinkies? Now he's telling us he has to cut off both of our legs. How will we stand on our own then if he's just gonna go back to giving us Twinkies after the surgery?

Very well stated, very metaphoric and poetic.

+!.

[Wesley Mouch]

Very well stated, very metaphoric and poetic.

And ignores that the patient was begging, blackmailing, and stealing to get the Twinkies -- and has been gorging on Twinkies for years and years -- even when the world was full of plenty of tofu, vegtables, and organically-raised, free-range chicken.

[mam2009]

Detroit's most basic fiscal problem is its lack of revenue that a solid tax base brings. That problem began when we began to lose population. That problem began before the riots, before Coleman Young took office, before KK was indicted, before Bing failed to drastically restructure government in his 2.5 years in office. Unfortunately, its become very popular for media types & pundits [[and message board commenters) to ignore all of the external factors that have led to the fiscal demise of Detroit. I won't even blame race [[though its a very easy argument to make) as the origin of Detroit's fiscal demise. I'll just put it like this -- what is the one thing that Detroit will need in order to keep it on track after the State ”rights the ship”? The answer: A lot of folks who pay taxes. Without that, we'll be like Flint which now has its second EM in less than a decade.

[Trumpeteer]

Think this though peeps.... Highest percentage of southern migrants to a large northern city.Lowest percentage of college grads in any big city.Highest illiteracy rate of any big city.To sum it up.. Detroit is screwed. Far too many uneducated southern white and black folk have hindered Detroits future. The tradition of staying away from schools continues on down to the children of the southern migrants.read Thomas Sugrue for more...Also Daniel Patrick Moynihan.....

Those same "southern migrants" were a huge part of the success of Detroit before the auto industry, which everyone tied their skirts to, died. It's amazing the level of bias and bigotry that many in the Detroit area show toward southern people. How about diverting that amazing level of intellect to providing a solution???

[Buy American]

Those same "southern migrants" were a huge part of the success of Detroit before the auto industry, which everyone tied their skirts to, died. It's amazing the level of bias and bigotry that many in the Detroit area show toward southern people. How about diverting that amazing level of intellect to providing a solution???

So true Trumpeteer. My family, both fathers and mothers, came up to Detroit from the South before the war to work in the auto factory because that was the only place where a person could make a decent wage and support their family. Those very same people are the ones called up during WWII and fought for our country and our freedom. I don't know what truthseeker is talking about when he/she states that southerners have "hindered" Detroit's future...they made it the thriving City it once was. The demise of the auto industry is what has killed Detroit....that and corrupt politicians who have had deep pockets for many years.

[coracle]

Where Detroiters originate from or what color they are has nothing to do with the problem they're in. It is what it is. We could all reach the same position if we consistently voted for the wrong Managers for 50 years. It's to late to change their Politics in case it works out for them; so somebody new is needed with irrevocable power to clear the decks and Plan the future based on the worst case Tax Base scenario; because it isn't going to get better. The big danger is that it will be glossed over and the can kicked down the road until another even worse situation is reached. The time of reckoning is now.

[Trumpeteer]

No other northern city had the high influx of southerners as Detroit did from 1920-1960.Detroit at this same time attracted fewer foreign born immigrants than other northern cities did.The skill sets, education and talents southerners [[white and black) brought with them to Detroit, did not help their children. Once cheap, uneducated, unskilled labor was not needed, these same southerners along with their children became a red herring around Detroits neck. Also, Detroit has one of the lowest Jewish population centers in any large metro area. For Detrot and the metro area to flourish, it needs a large educated population.

You are apparently somewhat "uneducated" as to the population make up of Detroit in this time period as the entire SW side where I grew up was a TOTAL melting pot of EVERY ethnicity including those from the American South. Virtually EVERY family that I grew up around had parents who didn't speak English or came from a TWO parent household where the parents didn't finish high school. However,their children all had a great education in either Catholic schools or the public school system that was pretty good at the time. IF you want to appear somewhat more "in the know" on the issue you'd blame the DPS system and not the "uneducated" populus.

[Trumpeteer]

You know I've REALLY been trying to be nice but you are really ST...d. Please reference the Huffington Post link which is one of many to show that MI is right in the same range of percent of graduates as the other states you reference. In fact CA 35.9%...MI 35.8% and that's with all the "smarts" out there. Just Damn.

http://chronicle.com/article/Interac...tion-of/65009/

You're really not as bright as you think you are. NOT name calling just an educated observation. You also apparently don't understand how to respond to factual statements.

[Trumpeteer]

My friend Trumpeteer...I would advise everyone to look at the U.S. census data regarding facts. Not newspaper articles.4 year degree: Michigan 24.4%California: 31.7%Mississippi: 20.1%

Now THAT'S an accurate resource...

[East Detroit]

Huffpo article is about people ages 25-34.

Is the census data also for only that age range?

[Locke09]

Huffpo article is about people ages 25-34.

Is the census data also for only that age range?

The newspaper article in Trumpeteer's link is using census data for ages 25-34. I'm not sure what age range is included in Truthseeker's number because I have only traced those exact numbers to an interactive map that says it is based on the U.S. Census Bureau 2005 American Community Survey.

2006-2010 estimates have been published and are on the census bureau's site. The problem with census data is that people/organizations too frequently extrapolate, make comparisons or generalize inaccurately based on the tables that are published without understanding the ways that the data is being presented.

[SWMAP]

I saw that last week's rally to send a message to the Governor that Detroiters won't accept an EFM attracted maybe 25 people if the cameras were to be believed.

Also today, Nolan Finley reports in the News that an EFM may be forestalled:
'Reports from City Hall suggest that Mayor Dave Bing has reached agreements on concessions with nearly all of the city's labor unions, with some work still to be done to get sign-off from uniformed police officers.
If he gets the deal, which is said to contain the 10 percent pay cuts and 20 percent health care cost sharing he sought, the city will forestall its cash flow crisis at least through 2013.
Will that be enough to head off an emergency manager?
The unions will say so. They came to the table under the threat of a state takeover that could break their contracts and leave them much worse off. If they agree to the steep give-backs and the emergency manager comes anyway, it will seem like a bait-and-switch.
Bing will also make that argument, since Detroit will no longer be in danger of writing cold checks."

Other recent media on the topic of an EFM included a great piece of reading in the NYT Magazine two weeks ago: Is There Anything Wrong With This Economy That a Jack Nicklaus-Designed Golf Course Can't Fix? A story about Joe Harris and Benton Harbor - it will strike terror into City Council and has so many messages for Detroit:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/18/ma...er=rss&emc=rss