Murder at Bagley and Grand River

**Gistok** · December-22-11, 05:03 PM

This is the area of the crime.... [[center left)...
http://www.forgottendetroit.com/gar/31.htm

Ravine · December-22-11, 10:44 PM

Let's examine this pairing of statement with interrogative.

"Police are stumped. Why was Groat walking three blocks from the casino?"

The source of the report has stated that the police are stumped.
While, probably, we can believe that statement to be true, the source of the report has followed the statement with a question which may, or may not, have been asked by the cops.
By following the statement with that question, the source of the report has conjured up the implication that it is the police who were scratching their heads over that one when, in fact, the reader has no just cause for believing any such thing.
The cops, I am certain, can think of several reasons why the victim was where he was. They may wish to know, for sure, why, but I truly doubt that they said anything about being "stumped" by that part of the incident.
Reporters, these days, are a stupid, half-literate, and sneaky lot; it's best to not infer something just because they implied it.

Ravine · December-29-11, 12:34 AM

Thank you, Zacha, but that's "reporting," and I still have no evidence of the police asking the question.

Originally Posted by Ravine

Let's examine this pairing of statement with interrogative.

"Police are stumped. Why was Groat walking three blocks from the casino?"

The source of the report has stated that the police are stumped.
While, probably, we can believe that statement to be true, the source of the report has followed the statement with a question which may, or may not, have been asked by the cops.
By following the statement with that question, the source of the report has conjured up the implication that it is the police who were scratching their heads over that one when, in fact, the reader has no just cause for believing any such thing.
The cops, I am certain, can think of several reasons why the victim was where he was. They may wish to know, for sure, why, but I truly doubt that they said anything about being "stumped" by that part of the incident.
Reporters, these days, are a stupid, half-literate, and sneaky lot; it's best to not infer something just because they implied it.

**Zacha341** · December-29-11, 12:42 AM

Good point... what is their followup? I am not finding anything further about this crime... but there are many that go this way.

Originally Posted by Ravine

Thank you, Zacha, but that's "reporting," and I still have no evidence of the police asking the question.

Ravine · December-23-11, 01:17 AM

Right right. White guy walking around in Detroit. Gets killed. Must have been trying to score some dope.

Jesus Christ Almighty.

**j to the jeremy** · December-23-11, 12:45 PM

It's highly visible but the ENTIRE intersection is bordered by parking lots. Even if someone saw it, they were most likely 2 blocks away, minimum. That's too far to be able to break up a stabbing.

**mikefmich** · December-26-11, 02:57 AM

Crissakes, I used to frequent the Gaslight often in earlier years. I would not consider that an overtly worrisome place to be in the city.

**rex** · December-26-11, 09:54 PM

and im back... forgot my password and was locked out.

Why would the guy be wandering around near the casino
at night? If it was a few blocks in another direction i would think
maybe looking for drugs. Maybe up or down on the tables,
drinking. Made a call or meant to try and find a street person.
Score me dope and Ill give you 5 bux type of deal. Wouldnt
be hard or take long. Easy way to get stabbed
sad all the same. I feel bad for his family

SteveJ · December-26-11, 10:43 PM

The weird thing is that he went with his friend and then he bailed on his own and walked around that area at night by himself. I bet his friend knows what his true intentions were. I just don't think I'd go to a casino with a friend and then just bail on him and walk around the casino.

**WickedILL** · December-27-11, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by SteveJ

The weird thing is that he went with his friend and then he bailed on his own and walked around that area at night by himself. I bet his friend knows what his true intentions were. I just don't think I'd go to a casino with a friend and then just bail on him and walk around the casino.

My thoughts as well.

Annndddd on another note, now we've got a shooting on christmas night [[2am) just outside "The Grind" off of Griswold and Clifford. I heard ~12 shots. I Got up, looked out my apt window and sure enough there is a guy laying on the sidewalk.

Man I hope no DPD officers are cut. They HAVE TO COME UP WITH ANOTHER WAY.

And last, "The Grind" either needs to be shut down or REQUIRED to have more security, including outside. Because it's no secret that a lot of their patrons are up-to-no-good thugs.

**downtown_racine** · December-27-11, 02:24 PM

Detroit: Cant even buy a doobie safely.

Atleast his death can be justified. Bad suburbanite buying dope in a ghettoood ~he didnt belong in~.

**wolverine** · December-27-11, 02:38 PM

Does someone have a link to violent crime numbers split up by neighborhood?

**WickedILL** · December-28-11, 03:27 AM

Originally Posted by wolverine

Does someone have a link to violent crime numbers split up by neighborhood?

I'd like to see that as well. If you go to the Detroit Welcome Center they'll tell you downtown Detroit has 35% less crime than the national average. But I wonder if that's REALLY true...

**Richard** · December-29-11, 12:56 AM

Originally Posted by wolverine

Does someone have a link to violent crime numbers split up by neighborhood?

Here .... daily updates http://www.crimemapping.com/

**mikeinmotown** · December-27-11, 02:49 PM

This is very upsetting. I live downtown and I walk that area all the time. I also work near the area and I've never had any problems. The only place I see punks hanging around is the corner of Griswold near State, next to the topless bar. I agree there is more to this story. To be stabbed that many times doesn't sound like your average robbery. People need to be careful and not blame the victim. Cops shouldn't make stupid statements like they did. We should be able to walk anywhere downtown and feel safe.

**corktownyuppie** · December-27-11, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by mikeinmotown

This is very upsetting. I live downtown and I walk that area all the time. I also work near the area and I've never had any problems. The only place I see punks hanging around is the corner of Griswold near State, next to the topless bar. I agree there is more to this story. To be stabbed that many times doesn't sound like your average robbery. People need to be careful and not blame the victim. Cops shouldn't make stupid statements like they did. We should be able to walk anywhere downtown and feel safe.

Living across the street from the MGM Casino, I share your view. That said, I do temper my opinion with the realization that it's not really safe for anyone, anywhere to be walking alone at 3 a.m. That holds true even in places such as University of Michigan's campus where I used to regularly walk home at 4 a.m. after closing up at Good Time Charley's on South University. It's a sad, changing world, and the economy isn't helping things.

Be safe, everyone.

**mtburb** · December-27-11, 08:00 PM

Worse, that man lived in the same city as I. So that's sad news for our community too.

Ravine · December-28-11, 04:15 PM

Obviously, I missed something. Where and when did the police make an issue out of why and when he was there?

**Zacha341** · December-29-11, 12:27 AM

From Fox news report: "Police are stumped. Why was Groat walking three blocks from the casino? He was murdered at approximately midnight."

Originally Posted by Ravine

Obviously, I missed something. Where and when did the police make an issue out of why and when he was there?

**gnome** · December-28-11, 04:46 PM

So without a spread of evidence you've constructed an entire mini-series involving his friend, a drug deal gone bad and a cornucopia of lies.

No evidence.

Pure speculation and we are to believe you because you say so.

It has been my experience that liars see lies in others. That cheaters think everyone cheats. That honest men think the best of other people until proven otherwise.

Posts sometimes reveal more than intended.

Ravine · December-28-11, 04:51 PM

Honest to God, even given the level of absurdity to which we, here in DY, have become accustomed, this thread has marked a new nadir.

I'm still waiting to see where the cops expressed bewilderment or skepticism about why the victim was where he was.

SteveJ · December-28-11, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by gnome

So without a spread of evidence you've constructed an entire mini-series involving his friend, a drug deal gone bad and a cornucopia of lies.

No evidence.

Pure speculation and we are to believe you because you say so.

It has been my experience that liars see lies in others. That cheaters think everyone cheats. That honest men think the best of other people until proven otherwise.

Posts sometimes reveal more than intended.

Yeah, they tend to reveal who lives in reality and who lives in some fantasy world.

Ravine · December-28-11, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by SteveJ

Yeah, they tend to reveal who lives in reality and who lives in some fantasy world.

I think that's what Gnome was saying, actually.

Ravine · December-29-11, 12:56 AM

Well, I figure that By RON SAVAGE
WJBK | myFOXDetroit.com didn't obtain any further info that was sensational or scandalous, and that brought the curtain down on any following-up of anything.