Judge Rules Tiger Stadium Demolition Can Proceed

[ghettopalmetto]

You might be on to something Burnsie. Think about how buildings were constructed in the early part of the 20th century. They were built more sturdily & with better materials to give them longevity. IMO, there's no way that stadium would've rotted away from just neglect in only 20 yrs. I used to work near old Eloise. There were some pretty tough buildings that stood vacant for almost 30 yrs, but never started just falling down due to non use.

Older materials, in this case steel and concrete, are actually inferior to their modern counterparts.

Older buildings were built "more sturdily" because they [[sometimes) were overdesigned and overbuilt to be conservative; forces due to wind and seismic events, soil mechanics, and modern structural analysis were understood far less in 1912 than now. To imply that newer structures are unsafe is ignorant and alarmist. Any structure will deteriorate if it doesn't receive proper maintenance.

[sherryrazor]

It's 11pm do you know where your tax $$ is going? It is going to further destroy Detroit, of course. More crack houses in Corktown, more hooker bars like Hoot's, what the storied sports bar at the corner of Michigan & Trumbull has become. Money that badly needs to be spent for Detroit public schools going towards demolition of a Ballpark that could have served as a place for children to learn the real history of Detroit and ports in Detroit.

Yeah, even learning the lessons of the ugly side of sports and Major League Baseball, because how else can we learn about the racism that prevailed then, and possibly learn from it? Now, the racism that pervades MLB is the scarfing up of all the young talented players from the Dominican Republic/Haiti by MLB. MLB scouts trawl that island, plucking up the young players for pennies for their first yr. contracts, draining all the talent & leaving that Island [[DR/Haiti) high and dry....not even one cent contributed to their ballparks or their schools with no $$ spent on these most impoverished countries in the Western Hemisphere, just snatching them up to play for rich pizza barons and such.

An opportunity lost for Detroit schoolchildren to learn the art of sportscasting from masters such as Ernie Harwell and the late George Kell, so that we maybe could have some people of color learn the trade instead of tired old know-it-all hacks, and rich white men attempting play-by-play. We had interactive exhibits planned, etc. Have the students learn how to possibly make a damn living in this most lucrative sports field, instead of a half-baked semi-education to get a job a McDonald's, but as we all know --- who the ef wants a McJob when you can make fat stacks on the corner with drugs, which, I believe was the operative word in the 60's, when all of our inner cities became flooded with heroin, just as African-Americans became radicalized, and then, in the 70's - to the 2000's with the free flow of cocaine, crystal meth [they call it "ice" in Hawaii, absolutely ruining Naive Hawaiian families there every day], ....sorry to get off track, but I think these drugs are allowed into our cities for a reason.

Meanwhile, we're giving billionaires tax credits for multi-media playgrounds, passing as ballparks, financed by public money, too, in many cases -- where the last thing these crowds are thinking about is what is going on on the playing field, the Game to them just an afterthought, an opportunity to entertain corporate clients.


I am devastated -- I just got back after a marathon day -- first at the Spirit of D with that red wings shirt on it [Hockey Town no more Tiger Town] and then .....standing with Beechcricker and a few others at the "rally" in the rain from 9:30 until the death sentence, around 11AM. My brother & I head immediately to our Ballpark, and Farrow didn't wait 5 minutes to start the claws, killing her off. Came home, tried to get some work done, and headed back for another 5 hrs. or so with the remaining time of what is left of our beautiful, majestic, Queen of Diamonds, our dreams vanquished in an instant by the Worst People in the World, the DEGC, and Judge Edwards.

Just had to vent, cry myself to sleep, get up tomorrow and do it again -- go spend a few more days with Her before She's in the landfill/dustbin of history.

Sherry Razor

Fan of Saving the playing field of Tiger Stadium, Fenway, Wrigley, and even the Oakland Coliseum and Fighter Against The Corporate Takeover Ruining Our National Pastime

[Ravine]

Sherry, regardless of whatever level of agreement or disagreement I may have with some of your sentiments, I want you to know that I found your post to be very sincere and rather moving. Thank you.
Don't be a stranger, OK?

[reddog289]

As I read the posts, I am sad that the end has come for the ballpark. Yet I am angered that other things in my mind are left to rot.As for the people who did there best to save the corner. Thanks. As for those who belive that the Stadium should have been torn down. I also see your point.Being almost 10 years ago when the final MLB game was played there and all of the stuff that has happened since.I can say for one thing I will never have to look at Tiger Stadium again and say " What are they gonna do with that?"

[DocTerry]

Reddog, it's so refreshing to hear from someone who is able and willing to look at both sides, and agree to disagree. And I am genuinely sorry that it did not turn out as you'd wished. I don't think any of us, including those who just want to see this done, are/were opposed to seeing the park-and-retail plan work.
And no, Novine, I won't be complaining about a Wal-mart or even a vacant lot - I'm looking forward to waking up to a different view one morning. If the trash from there doesn't blow onto my lawn like all the trash from the opening day and st. pat's day mayhem does, I'm sure some of us will go over periodically and clean it up.

[kathy2trips]

I'd love to see stock car races here; even amateurs. It would be fun, profitable and go a long way to reinforcing Detroit's status as an automotive center.

[urbanoutdoors]

http://baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=1302

[Mackinaw]

Totally agree with Jackie and Trumpeteer. Comerica might be much more comfortable for the players, and might have more "amenities" for fans, but the one amenity I want is to be able to follow the action in the midst of other people who are following the action. That has not occurred in the majority of the many games I've attended at CoPa [[usually only the playoffs have such an atmosphere). The problem is that the designers and ownership did not have an appreciation of what made Tiger Stadium good for the fans, and they erected something completely different. Perhaps if it all went down 5-10 years later we would have built a replica like in NY.

RIP Tiger Stadium.

[R8RBOB]

I'm sorry but I'm in the minority here. Tiger Stadium should have been torn down 9 years ago.

I understand that there are a number of people who have/had a love affair with Tiger Stadium but the park has been not in use for the last 10 years. People have stated that we need to preserve Detroit's history but really what can anyone do with a pre-WW1 baseball stadium? The Conservancy have worked for the last 22 years to keep Tiger Stadium in use. 10 years of that 22, the stadium sat empty and not in use and yet no money was brought to the table. The Conservancy had deadlines extended and still could not deliver and people are surprised the city is tearing down the rest.

I loved driving by Tiger Stadium. I was sad that the Tigers were going leave the Corner at the end of the 99 season, but life goes on. The stadium should have been knocked down back in 2000. I remember how the "Red Barn" on Grand River stood empty for years before the city decided that it was time. It is time now......

[detourdetroit]

look, there's a lot of misinformation here. the conservancy only worked on this project for a little over three years. it's a shame they couldn't distinguish themselves from previous efforts [[and that's nothing against previous efforts). the real travesty is that the powers that be and the community never formed a real partnership to forward the city. in my opinion, the city never really had any intent to see the conservancy's plan through.

here's an example of something that can be done when politics and grassroots advocacy work together to FORWARD the city and BUILD UPON the existing assets of the city. The High Line effort took 10 years and required convincing the powers that be that demolition was dumb.

Detroit loses out again...a figment of status quo leadership more than anything else. Bing's folks resemble the folks that have been running things for years. go figure!

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/09/ar...e-RO.html?_r=1

[zitro]

I wrote this last year when the wrecking ball first started to swing on the old gal and thought I'd share it with those who care.

Goodbye Old Girl

I’m tired and old, it’s time to say bye,
My house was your home, yes even for Ty.
When Babe set foot on my tall green bright grass
I told him okay I’ll give you a pass
I’ve been through a lot they come and they go.
But grieve me not friends I’m no longer the show
There’s Harry and Cochrane and Prince Hal and Charley
There were so many laughs boy did Cash like to party.
They had Murder’s Row but we had our Hank
And our home grown son Willie was built like a tank
Tram and Sweet Lou each were just like a son
As Ernie would say “2 for the price of one�.
My neighborhood burned back in 67’
That 68’ team was a gift down from heaven,
My shoulders are slumped and I’ll soon be debris
But weep not dear friends, no weep not for me.
Al Kaline first class, he was born with a touch
Kirk though rambunctious but tough in the clutch
That 84’ team sure did have swagger
But the Padres learned fast when we gave them the dagger
From Bennett to Navin to Briggs then into Tiger
My name may have changed but my roof just got higher.
I’ve opened my home to friend and to foe
But now it’s my time, it’s my time to go.
My final decree as my walls start to crumble
May a smile cross your face when you think of Michigan and Trumbull.

[Gsgeorge]

I'm sorry but I'm in the minority here. Tiger Stadium should have been torn down 9 years ago.

I understand that there are a number of people who have/had a lover affair with Tiger Stadium but the park has been not in use for the last 10 years. People have stated that we need to preserve Detroit's history but really what can anyone do with a pre-WW1 baseball stadium?

Uh....

We've gone over this:
- Community youth baseball park
- Ernie Harwell collection baseball museum
- Offices for greeting card company
- Retail

[R8RBOB]

Uh....

We've gone over this:
- Community youth baseball park
Don't the city have enough parks?

- Ernie Harwell collection baseball museum
We have museums that can host the "Ernie Harwell Baseball Collection"

- Offices for greeting card company
Prime office space is available, downtown of course.

- Retail
The one thing I agree with, but we don't need the empty shell of a stadium for retail.

If the money was there, then this would have been a moot point.

[ghettopalmetto]

If the money was there, then this would have been a moot point.

How about we use public money to tear down your house, then? There are plenty of other houses in the city.

How much money did DEGC raise for demolition? Oh, that's right: NONE. They're using your tax dollars, despite the City's struggles to balance its budget from year-to-year.

[jcole]

How about we use public money to tear down your house, then? There are plenty of other houses in the city.

How much money did DEGC raise for demolition? Oh, that's right: NONE. They're using your tax dollars, despite the City's struggles to balance its budget from year-to-year.

I'm assuming his house is inhabited, no?

[R8RBOB]

How about we use public money to tear down your house, then? There are plenty of other houses in the city.

How much money did DEGC raise for demolition? Oh, that's right: NONE. They're using your tax dollars, despite the City's struggles to balance its budget from year-to-year.

Tear down my house!!!! Last time I checked, there is someone human occupying the house. What's left of Tiger Stadium is being occupied by the rats and the pigeons. Not a good comparsion. Try again....

Since you wanted to quote me, let me explain a bit deeper for you.
If the Old Tiger Stadium Conservancy had the money, then the city would not be tearing down the stadium now but the OTSC didn't show the city the green and here we are.

I end this with some very famous words: Money talks, Bull$hit walks.

[kraig]

How about we use public money to tear down your house, then? There are plenty of other houses in the city.

How much money did DEGC raise for demolition? Oh, that's right: NONE. They're using your tax dollars, despite the City's struggles to balance its budget from year-to-year.

You have gone from the sublime, to the ridiculous. We all knew there were some people getting too emotional about this, but DAMN, that one takes the cake.

[detourdetroit]

ROBOT BOB. i just posted something about a more refined and progressive PROCESS that our more advanced counterparts saw to fruition in NYC that we could have gleaned something from. Conservancy folks had a lot of day-to-day, city-you-don't-have-to-pay-for-monthly-security/maintenance money in the bank, $4 million in federal talking money and tens of millions of if-you-knock-it-down-idiot-you-cannot-utilize-it in state and federal tax credits that are the way of the wind by now. there was juice in the hopper and more on its way. yes, there was a deficit as of the DEGC deadline. however, the deadline was a sham, hypocritical and not really the point. all we get out of this is a lot of nothing. it's embarrassing for the city.

[rjlj]

Ghettopalmetto, the argument can last forever. Just be glad R8RBOB and kraig are not in powerful decision-making positions. They are part of the same visionless generation that run this city and will need to die off before major positive change takes place in this city.

Here is the DEGC supporting their decision to tear down the stadium. Didn’t I read yesterday or hear on the radio on Friday that the DEGC said they had potential developers interested I the site? And the lies continue.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090...etroit-Council

[ghettopalmetto]

Tear down my house!!!! Last time I checked, there is someone human occupying the house. What's left of Tiger Stadium is being occupied by the rats and the pigeons. Not a good comparsion. Try again....

Since you wanted to quote me, let me explain a bit deeper for you.
If the Old Tiger Stadium Conservancy had the money, then the city would not be tearing down the stadium now but the OTSC didn't show the city the green and here we are.

I end this with some very famous words: Money talks, Bull$hit walks.

Well, there were people who *wanted* to occupy the old Tiger Stadium, but a PRIVATE corporation decided to use PUBLIC money to tear down a PUBLICLY-OWNED edifice. Don't the people who live in the neighborhood have any say as to what happens in their neighborhood?

Who benefits? The demolition contractors, as always.

If money talks and bullshit walks, then the City of Detroit and the DEGC should have been stranded somewhere along the Ohio Turnpike about ten years ago. Glad to see Detroit is busy tackling the major problems, though.

[kraig]

Ghettopalmetto, the argument can last forever. Just be glad R8RBOB and kraig are not in powerful decision-making positions. They are part of the same visionless generation that run this city and will need to die off before major positive change takes place in this city.

Here is the DEGC supporting their decision to tear down the stadium. Didn’t I read yesterday or hear on the radio on Friday that the DEGC said they had potential developers interested I the site? And the lies continue.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090...etroit-Council

So now I'm visionless because I don't want the City to spend taxpayer money to demolish a house that's not abandoned? I see that you've decided to step over that sublime line as well. Look, everyone knows that the OTSC had the deck stacked against them. But, when you're in a situation where someone is looking to capitalize on the first thing that you do wrong, you can't afford to do anything wrong. And if you do, you should take the steps to correct things if the other party hasn't capitalized on it. The OTSC blew that, big time. They also didn't take advantage of having a Mayor that was sympathetic to their cause. If you want to talk about visionless, talk to them.

[R8RBOB]

ROBOT BOB. i just posted something about a more refined and progressive PROCESS that our more advanced counterparts saw to fruition in NYC that we could have gleaned something from. Conservancy folks had a lot of day-to-day, city-you-don't-have-to-pay-for-monthly-security/maintenance money in the bank, $4 million in federal talking money and tens of millions of if-you-knock-it-down-idiot-you-cannot-utilize-it in state and federal tax credits that are the way of the wind by now. there was juice in the hopper and more on its way. yes, there was a deficit as of the DEGC deadline. however, the deadline was a sham, hypocritical and not really the point. all we get out of this is a lot of nothing. it's embarrassing for the city.

My friend you are sounding a bit melodramatic. First off, I am for restoring old buildings. I would love to see the old mixed in with the new. I would love for Detroit to be like Chicago in having their glass and steel mingle with the brick and mortar. That said, there isn't much you can do with a turn of the century baseball stadium except play baseball there.

Detroit have many buildings that can be preserved and restored but that takes a lot of money and people who are interested in Detroit. Tiger Stadium is not one of those buildings. Name me one stadium in this country that was successful transformed from sport venue to retail property or an living environment? From the Kingdome to Boston Garden, arenas and stadiums has been knocked down or imploded because there is no other purpose for them. If there was a purpose for Tiger Stadium, would we really be throwing barbs at each other? If Chicago could knock down old Cominsky and Pittsburgh could implode Three Rivers and Atlanta could implode Fulton County Stadium and New York could knock down both Yankee and Shea Stadium then Tiger Stadium could fall too because in the end, it is just a stadium.

[ghettopalmetto]

My friend you are sounding a bit melodramatic. First off, I am for restoring old buildings. I would love to see the old mixed in with the new. I would love for Detroit to be like Chicago in having their glass and steel mingle with the brick and mortar. That said, there isn't much you can do with a turn of the century baseball stadium except play baseball there.

Suddenly, you're an architect. Stellar.

[GREENTROIT]

@Jackie and @Trumpeteer...

Jackie, I am a hardcore baseball fan. Like you, when I go to Tiger's games I want to focus on the action. But I don't see how Comerica has extra "clutter," and especially disagree with your point on bad seating. Comerica's sightlines are far better than anything Tiger Stadium offered. It was engineered to provide each seat with a great view. I've sat just about everywhere in the park and my experiences support this. As far as the extra clutter, sure. There is music in between batters and there's a giant scoreboard with racing donuts once a game. But when the game is going on, its all baseball. I don't see how Comerica takes away from the game. And the extra money Ilitch has made from the changes have allowed for a competitive team. Would you rather field a team with players like Cabrera, Ordonez, Granderson, Verlander, etc... Or keep paying Bobby Higginson and Robert Fick $10M to do nothing. I guarantee that Pudge never comes to Detroit [[and turns the franchise around) if they still play in Tiger Stadium.

@ Trumpeteer:

I have many, many friends in Boston [[I used to live there). And yes, Fenway has a nostalgiac air about it. It has to do with the charms of the Green Monster and Pesky Pole, etc. But many of those friends HATE Fenway. They hate the enormous lines for the bathroom, the 10 inch wide seats that cost $150 a piece, and the two hundred person line for a beer. I promise you that if a totally new stadium built as a replica of Fenway was offered to Red Sox fans they would jump immediately. I'm sure whatever documentary you watched put the slant they wanted on it, but those fans want a modern park.

[R8RBOB]

Well, there were people who *wanted* to occupy the old Tiger Stadium, but a PRIVATE corporation decided to use PUBLIC money to tear down a PUBLICLY-OWNED edifice.

"Show me the money!!!" ----Rod Tidwell, WR Arizona Cardinals

If the people wanted to occupy the "old Tiger Stadium" then all they had to do is show the city the money. It is that simple. All they did is talk about the money.