Can Detroit afford to enforce dedicated lanes for BRT [[or LR for that matter)?

[313WX]

That statement is ludicrous.
The place is crawling with taxicabs and limo services. Anyone flying into a city without, at least, enough dough to grab a cab to their point of destination is a damned fool who should have stayed where they were. C'mon.

Have you actually taken a cab from DTW to any part of the Metro Area outside western Wayne County [[remind you, getting to Oakland County where all the commerce is at will be much more expensive than getting to downtown)?

I'm just curious, since you're spouting that baseless BS. See post #16.

[laphoque]

Have you actually taken a cab from DTW to any part of the Metro Area outside western Wayne County [[remind you, getting to Oakland County where all the commerce is at will be much more expensive than getting to downtown)?

I'm just curious, since you're spouting that baseless BS. See post #16.

See Atlanta where the downtown train is in the terminal. THAT should be what we model ours after. I'm beginning to think Bing is senile. I don't want Kwame, but can't we find a responsible young person to do the job?

[corktownyuppie]

Have you actually taken a cab from DTW to any part of the Metro Area outside western Wayne County [[remind you, getting to Oakland County where all the commerce is at will be much more expensive than getting to downtown)?

I'm just curious, since you're spouting that baseless BS. See post #16.

Yes, let me rephrase. There's no economical way to get from DTW to any major destination points in SE Michigan. Obvs, if I could afford the $350 ticket, it could be argued that I should be able to afford the $40 shuttle ride, too. But that's not my point. As others have mentioned, the price I could pay in other cities for transit is equivalent to the gratuity I'd pay Metro Cars, Michigan Flyer, or any of the cab services from Ann Arbor or Detroit.

[Wesley Mouch]

That statement is ludicrous.
The place is crawling with taxicabs and limo services. Anyone flying into a city without, at least, enough dough to grab a cab to their point of destination is a damned fool who should have stayed where they were. C'mon.

Are you seriously arguing against pubic transit at DTW? Well, I guess it is a unique feature of our airport vs. Denver, Atlanta, New York, Tampa, Seattle, Los Angeles, Phoenix, Chicago where I've personally used public transit. Los Angeles. Did you read that? The worst sprawl in the world, and you can take the light rail to the airport -- well you do have to take a short shuttle bus -- but under $2.00 from LAX to downtown.

[noise]

That statement is ludicrous.
The place is crawling with taxicabs and limo services. Anyone flying into a city without, at least, enough dough to grab a cab to their point of destination is a damned fool who should have stayed where they were. C'mon.

Call me a fool, but I always prefer to take mass transit to a taxi when I arrive in new cities.

Poor people should never fly, either, I guess.

[wolverine]

Anyone flying into a city without, at least, enough dough to grab a cab to their point of destination is a damned fool who should have stayed where they were. C'mon.

Oh wow, you should work for the local chamber of commerce. Quit trying to deny the fact that transit in your region sucks.

[DetroitPlanner]

Terrific. That wonderful service will set you back a mere $40 each way to get from DTW to Ann Arbor. You might as well rent a car.

In the meantime, one can get from EWR to Manhattan for $15 on NJ Transit. Or PHL to Center City for $6 on SEPTA Regional Rail. Or BWI to Capitol Hill for $6 on MARC.

Yet Detroit wonders why it's not competitive....

Cobo would cost what? $2? $2.50 max?

[iheartthed]

That statement is ludicrous.
The place is crawling with taxicabs and limo services. Anyone flying into a city without, at least, enough dough to grab a cab to their point of destination is a damned fool who should have stayed where they were. C'mon.

And what about a city that forces every person to either pre-arrange a ride from friends or pay for a $50 cab ride? Genius or no?

This is exactly why Detroit is unwelcoming to outsiders [[immigrants, potential entrepreneurs, etc.). It's not an environment that complements the self-made person well.

[corktownyuppie]

Cobo would cost what? $2? $2.50 max?

Hell, I'd pay $10, and so would every student in Ann Arbor.

[Bham1982]

Even in cities with excellent public transit, business travelers will almost never use transit from the airport to their destination. Their companies are paying for door-to-door taxis or car services, so there's no point.

Yes, airport-to-downtown transit is helpful for leisure travelers, but Detroit isn't a major leisure destination, and isn't likely to be regardless of what transpires in our lifetimes.

So it would be nice to have airport-to-downtown rail, but it's hardly a major transit priority, especially in such a decentralized region.

[wolverine]

Even in cities with excellent public transit, business travelers will almost never use transit from the airport to their destination. Their companies are paying for door-to-door taxis or car services, so there's no point.

Yes, airport-to-downtown transit is helpful for leisure travelers, but Detroit isn't a major leisure destination, and isn't likely to be regardless of what transpires in our lifetimes.

So it would be nice to have airport-to-downtown rail, but it's hardly a major transit priority, especially in such a decentralized region.

That is definitely not true. And it's something that surprised me when I started working in downtown Chicago, so your assumption isn't unreasonable.

Many business travelers take the train from the airport. Same holds true according to my friends in DC. I'm not saying "every business traveler" but saying..."almost never" use transit is hardly true in major cities. Heck man, plenty of us out here would love to take a taxi to the airport. But many companies understandably need to save money where they can, and asking their employees to spend 30 mins more time on the train to save $50 each way seems pretty fair.

EDIT: I'll admit to not holding any statistical information on this. But when I've left for the airport on a weekday, the train is filled with professionals on their way to O'Hare. I'm just not convinced by the "almost never" statement.

[Bham1982]

Many business travelers take the train from the airport. Same holds true according to my friends in DC.

I don't believe this. Why would folks on business commonly take a train to the airport?

There is no comfort, speed, cost, ease, or convenience to such an endeavor.

I used to travel to London on business a couple times a year. The Heathrow express rail is about as good as airport-based rail can get. Unlike painfully slow London subways, or regular commuter rail, Heathrow express is direct, nonstop service, and the high price keeps out the regular commuters.

But why would business travelers take it? The express goes to Paddington station, which isn't near the major business centers. You have to take a taxi from Paddington anyways, so what's the point? Why not take a one [[taxi) seat ride direct to your destination instead of dealing with transfers, and fighting your away through unfamiliar train terminals?

There's also the constant fight to reduce receipts. You're always trying to reduce the number of receipts for reimbursement, so don't want to toy with multiple transit modes if you don't have to.

Now, for leisure travelers, I totally agree. Airport rail is quite useful. But I have used airport rail in NYC, London, Paris, San Francisco, Frankurt and many other cities, and never noticed a large number of business travelers.

[wolverine]

Okay then, the business travelers [[dressed in professional attire) I see coming to and from the airport [[with suitcases), must all be holograms, because Bham1982 says they don't exist.

You're right though, it can be uncomfortable. The trains get so full of business travelers, you are tripping over suitcases in the aisle. It's just the way things are....or I suppose you could sit stuck in traffic on the way to the airport.

The reason you don't believe my statement, is because you've never seen it. You've taken a taxi everywhere right? Of course you are unfamiliar with public transit.....at least within North America that is.

[iheartthed]

I don't believe this. Why would folks on business commonly take a train to the airport?

There is no comfort, speed, cost, ease, or convenience to such an endeavor.

I used to travel to London on business a couple times a year. The Heathrow express rail is about as good as airport-based rail can get. Unlike painfully slow London subways, or regular commuter rail, Heathrow express is direct, nonstop service, and the high price keeps out the regular commuters.

But why would business travelers take it? The express goes to Paddington station, which isn't near the major business centers. You have to take a taxi from Paddington anyways, so what's the point? Why not take a one [[taxi) seat ride direct to your destination instead of dealing with transfers, and fighting your away through unfamiliar train terminals?

There's also the constant fight to reduce receipts. You're always trying to reduce the number of receipts for reimbursement, so don't want to toy with multiple transit modes if you don't have to.

Now, for leisure travelers, I totally agree. Airport rail is quite useful. But I have used airport rail in NYC, London, Paris, San Francisco, Frankurt and many other cities, and never noticed a large number of business travelers.

I know plenty of business travelers who use public transportation, but it depends on how well the airport is served by transit and whether the transit connects directly to your destination. Even in New York it varies by which airport you're using. At Newark or JFK, which are easily accessible by transit, you see plenty of business travelers on the trains. OTOH, at LaGuardia, which can be a pain in the ass to reach by transit -- since it's only accessible by bus -- it's rare to see business travelers using public transportation.

Plus, a lot of business travelers are reimbursed for ground transportation expenses, which puts extra incentive for using more inexpensive modes when convenient.

I also have seen plenty of business travelers going for the Heathrow Express in London after landing, though I've never used it myself.

[noise]

I travel for business and it comes from a limited travel budget. I always take the less expensive option, which saves money for other travel expenses. I know I'm not alone.

[Wesley Mouch]

Even in cities with excellent public transit, business travelers will almost never use transit from the airport to their destination...

Perhaps true for residents of Bham, but for the rest of us often true. Beancouters are more persuasive than you think -- and travel expenses are very much under the watchful eye and can have caps on individual line items or on daily expenses.

Costs for business travel are an important factor for decisions on where, how, and whether to send staff. Unlimited expense accounts are as common as three-martini lunches.

[313WX]

Even in cities with excellent public transit, business travelers will almost never use transit from the airport to their destination. Their companies are paying for door-to-door taxis or car services, so there's no point.

Out of curiousity, do you have some proof to back that claim up with?

[Islandman]

He has no proof, and I seriously think he puts blinders on whenever he leaves Metro Detroit. The shit he sees and most other see is usually diametrically opposed. I'll add "business people don't use mass transit" line to his vat of salt. It's almost comical.

[corktownyuppie]

Most of the business travelers I know get private car service. But most of the business travelers I know also work for companies for whom time is valued far more than money. When you're working firms known worldwide such as McKinsey or PWC, you hire a car whether or you working in Detroit, Miami, or LA.

But I think my business contacts are disproportionately representing MBAs from Top 10 schools in the US. For every Deloitte or Accenture consultant hiring MetroCars, there are hordes of "middle income" business travelers like pharmaceutical sales reps/managers, financial service wholesalers, middle managers who oversee retail chains, etc.

There are a lot of business travelers whose work bills at $500/hr. There are many, many more who are worth $50-$100/hr. They get to fly coach, and then take the shuttle bus or train into the city.

[ghettopalmetto]

I don't believe this. Why would folks on business commonly take a train to the airport?

There is no comfort, speed, cost, ease, or convenience to such an endeavor.

Now, for leisure travelers, I totally agree. Airport rail is quite useful. But I have used airport rail in NYC, London, Paris, San Francisco, Frankurt and many other cities, and never noticed a large number of business travelers.

Therefore, if EVERYONE doesn't use it, then NO ONE uses it, right?

Do you think that maybe, just maybe, the all-or-nothing approach has failed Detroit for far too long?

...and for what it's worth, I find taking the MARC train from BWI to be infinitely more pleasant and comfortable than a $50 cab ride down I-95. But you just keep pretending that Oakland County is the Center of the Universe, and everyone else is wrong.

[Bham1982]

Out of curiousity, do you have some proof to back that claim up with?

I travel extensively for work, and see it all the time.

If you disagree, and think business travelers are fooling around with transit maps and the like after 12 hour flights, be my guest.

[ghettopalmetto]

If you disagree, and think business travelers are fooling around with transit maps and the like after 12 hour flights, be my guest.

The next time you're in DC, you should hang out on the Metro platform at National Airport. Rumour has it, they serve a mean slice of humble pie there.

But of course, you're going to move the goalposts and qualify your wild-ass guesses to "international" travel. In which case, I can point you to BUSloads of English/German/French/Chinese/Whatever speaking business people on the 175 bus at Chopin Airport in Warsaw who seem to figure it out just fine.