Two Killed in Detroit Building Collapse

[Forwardlook]

It pretty much defies logic that anyone would choose scrapping over a "real job" if both options are available. Think about it.

So in your opinion unemployment equals to crime that has to be tolerated? Isn't this kind of thinking exactly why Detroit has so much problems and communities with more effective law enforcement [[like Hamtramck and Dearborn mentioned in other discussions) do not?

[downtown_racine]

So why couldnt these guys get "real" jobs ? They couldnt pass a piss test ? They aren't reliable ?
I mean they have a ride, they are able bodied, possibly mechanically apt.

I mean with a truck and a couple lawn mowers you can mow grass and shovel snow, maybe work for a slumlord ? Maybe just glean metal from the curb ? Many options besides stealing.

[antongast]

So in your opinion unemployment equals to crime that has to be tolerated? Isn't this kind of thinking exactly why Detroit has so much problems and communities with more effective law enforcement [[like Hamtramck and Dearborn mentioned in other discussions) do not?

I didn't say it "has to be tolerated." Scrapping is a serious problem, and we should be looking for ways to solve it. It's just that, in my experience, it's a lot easier to solve a problem when you understand what's causing it. If we start with the premise "scrapping is caused by laziness" and then start trying to think of ways to make people less lazy, we're never going to solve the scrapping problem because that isn't what causes scrapping. I don't understand how pointing this out means I'm somehow against effective law enforcement.

[EastsideAl]

I agree with this, and I agree that the penalty for scrapping shouldn't be death, and that it's sad both that this happened to these people and that our city is in such a state that scrapping is seen as one of the few viable ways to make a living.

But as someone who has been personally victimized by scrappers, and who has seen the sad results of their efforts, I would be lying if I said that I didn't also feel just some small amount of retributive justice here as well. Particularly since it appears that these guys' demise was the direct result of some especially stupid scrapping activities. I sure don't feel good about myself for feeling that way, but it's certainly there.

[Occurrence]

Whoever said scrappers are "too lazy" to get a job is so very wrong. Quite the opposite really. Scrapping is hard risky work. In fact, they probably work harder than the average person in the same income bracket. I would say "lack of education" is probably a more appropriate term to use.

[Det_ard]

Agreed. I think about what it would take to get me to do these things to provide for my family and I can't help but feel horrible for the people forced into these "jobs".

Don't get me wrong: you have nobody to blame but yourself when you get caught doing something illegal...but that doesn't mean I think they should be killed.

You're incredibly naive to think that they're scrapping "to provide for their families". They're scrapping to provide for their drug/alcohol habits, not to buy beans and rice.

[reddog289]

The guy across the street from me scrapped when he was outta work. I would have taken the scrap in myself, But I have a job. He got back to work and people on the block kept putting scrap in his truck. He'd be out every garbage night getting the scrap. Now I have done that too, But I ain't about to go into some building and start cutting away at steel beams. Guess people do what they feel he need do.

[noise]

So why couldnt these guys get "real" jobs ? They couldnt pass a piss test ? They aren't reliable ?
I mean they have a ride, they are able bodied, possibly mechanically apt.

I mean with a truck and a couple lawn mowers you can mow grass and shovel snow, maybe work for a slumlord ? Maybe just glean metal from the curb ? Many options besides stealing.

We've solved the unemployment problem, ladies and gentlemen!

[noise]

You're incredibly naive to think that they're scrapping "to provide for their families". They're scrapping to provide for their drug/alcohol habits, not to buy beans and rice.

And all poor people are lazy. Thanks, Newt.

[riviera]

I feel like I should post the rest of the Detroit News article for posterity's sake which was posted earlier on this thread. I was searching for it and had difficulty finding it as it had been deleted [[why?) and is not easy to find. It's currently on available on Google for a limited time.


Detroit-- The bodies of two black males have been recovered from the wreckage of a collapsed abandoned nursing home, Detroit police confirmed Thursday morning.
The roof of the Arnold Nursing Home on West Seven Mile collapsed Wednesday, killing the two apparent metal scrappers, who were found by police Wednesday afternoon. Police, though, provided no information on the names, ages or addresses of the dead men on Thursday.
The men had been reported missing since Monday, Detroit Police Sgt. Eren Stephens said. She would not say when they died. Their bodies were found about 1 p.m. on the first floor in the rear of the huge Greek revival-style main building at 18520 W. Seven Mile.
Inspector Vicki Yost also would not disclose how police were alerted to the bodies.
The nursing home closed a decade ago and has been a chronic problem for residents who have been frustrated that the facility on 13 acres has been left to rot. The county has foreclosed on its owners twice since 2008 for unpaid taxes, and the property sold in October for $21,100 at the annual county auction.
The property also has been a haven for urban explorers and photographers, who have featured the ruins in books.
Neighbor Tom Wilson Jr. said residents have been warning city officials for years that something like this might happen. The property's buildings, missing windows and doors have been open to trespassers off and on for years.
"Just what I [[predicted) has come true, and it's a sad indictment on what should not have been," Wilson said. "We've been after this for years. You could just drag anybody up in there and do anything you wanted to do with them."
The Rev. Kevin Johnson, pastor of the nearby Calvary Presbyterian Church, said he thinks he knows the men because they introduced themselves recently and he recognized the cars parked on the street Wednesday afternoon. The men had showed him documentation indicating they were working with the owner, Johnson said.
"My heart is aching," Johnson said. "This is just tragic. And here we are the week before Christmas."
But the property's recent buyer said the men weren't working for him. Rashad Al-Mehdi of Dearborn said he hasn't even entered the facility yet because he hasn't gotten the deed from the county treasurer. The county had just issued the deed Tuesday.
Al-Mehdi said he is saddened by the deaths and promised to clean up and secure the property. He said he has no specific plans for the sprawling facility and decided to bid on it on a whim the night before the auction.
"I really didn't have any plans when I put in an offer," Al-Mehdi said. "I really don't know what I want to do with it."
He said it's like "buying a car for a penny: you can always scrap it. I am paying pennies on the dollar."
The previous owner, John Sarnecky II of Canton Township, said he tried to get city or state help to rehab the site but failed.
"I have been trying for years," Sarnecky said. "It was a nightmare. Nobody responded at all."
Johnson said he and his parishioners have been keeping up the grounds for the last five years by mowing, cleaning and trimming bushes.
At one point, the grounds were so overgrown Johnson said they didn't even realize that another church down the street was cleaning up the other end of the property.
"There was so much growth, we couldn't even see them," Johnson said.
This spring, someone threw rocks from the top of the main building onto his church parking lot causing about $30,000 worth of damage denting cars and breaking windows.
"I understand the city has enormous issues, but the city needs to look at this," Johnson said. "I am not opposed to making a profit but don't be a carpetbagger at the expense of the citizens of Detroit."

[Al Publican]

...do a song about this incident.

[RaumVogel]

And all poor people are lazy. Thanks, Newt.

<<<<This

You can tell the long employed, slightly brain washed right wingers. They haven't had to pay attention to reality for a long time.

[Zacha341]

Yeah the Detroit News pulled that article. You can only find the cached version at the previous link... what's up with that?

I feel like I should post the rest of the Detroit News article for posterity's sake which was posted earlier on this thread. I was searching for it and had difficulty finding it as it had been deleted [[why?) and is not easy to find. It's currently on available on Google for a limited time.


Detroit-- The bodies of two black males have been recovered from the wreckage of a collapsed abandoned nursing home, Detroit police confirmed Thursday morning.

The roof of the Arnold Nursing Home on West Seven Mile collapsed Wednesday, killing the two apparent metal scrappers, who were found by police Wednesday afternoon. Police, though, provided no information on the names, ages or addresses of the dead men on Thursday.....

[riviera]

Yea, I kind of found that weird so I took a copy of the cached version in case anyone needs a future reference to what happened.

[riviera]

Another weird thing is when I first posted it from the cache it said:

Detroit-- The bodies of two black males have been recovered from the wreckage of a collapsed abandoned nursing home, Detroit police confirmed Thursday morning.

Now, on the google cache it says:

Detroit-- The bodies of two males have been recovered from the wreckage of a collapsed abandoned nursing home, Detroit police confirmed Thursday morning.

I think it was changed a few times and then they decided to pull the article altogether.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a

[SteveJ]

Can't believe they were dumb enough to try to scrap a beam that was holding up the ceiling.

[Zacha341]

Yeah, who alerted the police that there was someone in there? Was there an audible noise of the rubble coming down? The wrecker activity was alot but the initial cave in.... was there a witness?

But as the article states it all became apparent as the scrappers came up missing it was not hard to put two and two together. I suppose it was obvious that a portion of the building had come down, but it's hard to determine that from the photos after the wrecker pulled everything away....?

[sycloneman]

Neighbor Tom Wilson Jr. said residents have been warning city officials for years that something like this might happen. The property's buildings, missing windows and doors have been open to trespassers off and on for years.

What's the difference? Even if it was boarded up and signs were up do you think that would stop anyone? It doesn't matter if a building is inhabited or vacant, no one had the right to break in and trespass! I do not condone or approve or anyone dying but this is like the case of the burglar breaking into someone's house through a kitchen skylight and then turning around and suing because they landed on and injured themselves on a knife that was sitting on the counter. Absurd!

People need an adjustment in their thinking around here.

[Ravine]

You're incredibly naive to think that they're scrapping "to provide for their families". They're scrapping to provide for their drug/alcohol habits, not to buy beans and rice.

I'll take "incredibly naive" over "judgmental toward folks you don't even know" any day, all day.

[Whitehouse]

You can look at it this way. People came to die in this building, so in effect, it served it's purpose in a way.


And if drugs were their problem: problem solved.