Feds, Snyder kill Woodward Light Rail Line

**Novine** · December-14-11, 09:52 AM

"This is a questionable argument. If high-speed rail were actually superior to air for distances of under 200-300 miles, don't you think we'd see a high-speed rail system somewhere in the US?"

What do you call the Acela trains on the NE Corridor? I know it's not 200+ high-speed rail but it's faster than anything else in the US. It's also the preferred mode of transportation in the corridor.

**Novine** · December-14-11, 10:17 AM

Wattrick's take via Mlive:

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...etroit_pl.html

**313WX** · December-14-11, 10:28 AM

Another elephant in the room is a lot of Dan Gilbert's developments [[who is pretty much the only one continuing any type of momentum downtown) hinged on the Woodward light rail.

**R8RBOB** · December-14-11, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Another elephant in the room is a lot of Dan Gilbert's developments [[who is pretty much the only one continuing any type of momentum downtown) hinged on the Woodward light rail.

I hope he enjoys those Snyderbuses that will be driving up and down Woodward.

**Tig3rzhark** · December-14-11, 10:41 AM

Maybe the only hope for a regional authority, is to bypass Oakland County.

Find some way to convince the people that if OC don't get on board, that they will be left behind. If that means that it becomes difficult for people to get to cities in Oakland County, then so be it.

We shouldn't have people like LBP stop progress.

**Detroitnerd** · December-14-11, 12:02 PM

http://www.oakgov.com/exec/brooks/sprawl.html

**English** · December-14-11, 12:12 PM

Well, we've just proven the naysayers correct, in my opinion. The problem with Detroit is its people -- all 4.5 million of us. I'm including myself in that, too. We have no vision, and we have no leadership.

I can't believe that I actually thought things were changing! After all my boosterism, especially to my friends out of town and out of state, I feel foolish.

We won't have any viable mass transit system until we're forced to have one. And by then, not only will the city be bankrupt, so will this state, and very likely, the nation.

**XDetroitr** · December-14-11, 12:19 PM

What alternative energy source will these high-speed buses be using? I didn't see anything about them being electric. Probably good old fossil fuels. Short sightedness on so many levels. Alas, Detroit will never change.

**English** · December-14-11, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by XDetroitr

What alternative energy source will these high-speed buses be using? I didn't see anything about them being electric. Probably good old fossil fuels. Short sightedness on so many levels. Alas, Detroit will never change.

No, it won't. It will have to be forced to change... and by then, it will be too late.

**Wesley Mouch** · December-14-11, 12:29 PM

Haven't seen anyone note that the big guys want to do Gratiot, Michigan [[good) and M-59 [[well, what can I say -- except what about Grand River?)

**illwill** · December-14-11, 12:36 PM

I personally never thought Detroit was ready for light rail.I'd love to see a nice trolley in the city myself. Rapid transit is very costlyto operate.

Chicago's trains [[although Chicago has heavy a heavy dutyrail system) are usually filled to capacity and they continue to strugglefinancially to keep their trains running. Building and maintaining a transitsystem cost A LOT of money. I never thought Detroit had that kind of money andin the end I think it would have had to been government financed and operatedbecause the city DEFINITELY could not afford it. And you know L. BrooksPaterson wasn't goint to support something in that in the end would make peopleleave Oakland County for Detroit. No matter how much he smiled in your face. Heand Snyder are on the same team here...remember that.

I don't think everyone should get frustrated and bail out onthe City of Detroit. We all know that Detroit is what it is. The city has comea long way over the past 5-7 years and it WAS gaining momentum. Unfortunately,I think the city has hit a new ditch because of talks of receivership. Peopleare certainly leary at this point. Including myself. I'll admit that I plannedto buy a home in the city and a commercial property for my business. Howeverthat will not be happening with Detroit being in the position that it is. Iwill have a business in the city but I'll be leasing space. The tax base is waytoo low for me to make a smart investment in the City of Detroit. I couldn'tsleep at night knowing that I personally am one of the few people pitching into carry the HUGE tax burden for a majority of the city.

Remember, most of us can be other places but we're here inDetroit because we choose to be. I don't expect shit from the city, state orfederal level.

**Danny** · December-14-11, 12:51 PM

Would it be easier to fix our regional infrastructure first before we get mass transit in the streets.

**casscorridor** · December-14-11, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by Danny

Would it be easier to fix our regional infrastructure first before we get mass transit in the streets.

This is all related. Fixing our infrastructure includes restoring rail transit to metropolitan Detroit. Along with many other things. This is a fight between the 1% [[Bing, Snyder, La Hood, Obama, etc) and everyone else. They want us to pitch in and sacrifice our wages, services and now even one of the only government projects that offered any hope for the city. While they have been hoarding all the money, refusing to pitch in. The working people have pitched in enough, time for the 1% to do their part. We must demand not only mass transit, but also other necessities of life we have been deprived of such as housing, dignified employment, health care and a sustainable ecosystem.

**j to the jeremy** · December-14-11, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by casscorridor

This is all related. Fixing our infrastructure includes restoring rail transit to metropolitan Detroit. Along with many other things. This is a fight between the 1% [[Bing, Snyder, La Hood, Obama, etc) and everyone else. They want us to pitch in and sacrifice our wages, services and now even one of the only government projects that offered any hope for the city. While they have been hoarding all the money, refusing to pitch in. The working people have pitched in enough, time for the 1% to do their part. We must demand not only mass transit, but also other necessities of life we have been deprived of such as housing, dignified employment, health care and a sustainable ecosystem.

Agreed, the feds just passed a $662 BILLION "defense" [[War) bill which allows indefinite detention of citizens with no charges pressed. And the same legislature wants to kill Amtrak and small amounts money reserved for bicycle improvements.

**bailey** · December-14-11, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by casscorridor

This is all related. Fixing our infrastructure includes restoring rail transit to metropolitan Detroit. Along with many other things. This is a fight between the 1% [[Bing, Snyder, La Hood, Obama, etc) and everyone else. They want us to pitch in and sacrifice our wages, services and now even one of the only government projects that offered any hope for the city. While they have been hoarding all the money, refusing to pitch in. The working people have pitched in enough, time for the 1% to do their part. We must demand not only mass transit, but also other necessities of life we have been deprived of such as housing, dignified employment, health care and a sustainable ecosystem.

yes, if only there were a group of 1%-ers willing to stake the seed money to kickstart light rail around here......

**detroitbob** · December-14-11, 01:23 PM

Well, I suppose Bing, in his future role as EFM would have killed the project anyway. So what's the point of beating the dead horse...opps city. As I drove down Gratiot Ave. from 1696 and entered the city, the desolation that is eveident is astounding and has escalated in the last year. The EFM and the State will not be able to manage this situation, long term it will take the Federal governments intervention to rescue the remaining residents from this mess...

**Danny** · December-14-11, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by casscorridor

This is all related. Fixing our infrastructure includes restoring rail transit to metropolitan Detroit. Along with many other things. This is a fight between the 1% [[Bing, Snyder, La Hood, Obama, etc) and everyone else. They want us to pitch in and sacrifice our wages, services and now even one of the only government projects that offered any hope for the city. While they have been hoarding all the money, refusing to pitch in. The working people have pitched in enough, time for the 1% to do their part. We must demand not only mass transit, but also other necessities of life we have been deprived of such as housing, dignified employment, health care and a sustainable ecosystem.

Let me explain to you about fuel and food of American Capitalism:

Jobs, jobs, jobs, = building infrastructure = demand of resources = demand of public transit = building of retail commerce and urban areas.

Public transit doesn't comes first in the line of regionalization. It all starts wil jobs, jobs, jobs!

**Detroitnerd** · December-14-11, 01:51 PM

Here's another possibility:

The private funders were unhappy that they couldn't cajole the public into operating their toonerville trolley. So, instead of appearing to be sore losers, they had errand boy Bing pull the plug. Now they're off the hook.

Just putting some conjecture out there.

**detroitbob** · December-14-11, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Here's another possibility:

The private funders were unhappy that they couldn't cajole the public into operating their toonerville trolley. So, instead of appearing to be sore losers, they had errand boy Bing pull the plug. Now they're off the hook.

Just putting some conjecture out there.

By the reaction of the private investors your conjecture is incorrect.

bartock · December-14-11, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by detroitbob

By the reaction of the private investors your conjecture is incorrect.

The reaction was predictable regardless of what side they are "really" on.

These private investors are still talking about doing light rail from Grand Blvd. south. If they put their money back on the table for something like that, then I'll believe the conjecture is incorrect.

**Detroitnerd** · December-14-11, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by detroitbob

By the reaction of the private investors your conjecture is incorrect.

How do you think they are supposed to behave? Smugly? Like they got what they wanted?

No, they're businesspeople. They're used to lying.

When somebody "retires" and the boss who forcibly retired him says, "We deeply regret Mr. So-and-sos resignation..."

**iheartthed** · December-14-11, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

How do you think they are supposed to behave? Smugly? Like they got what they wanted?

No, they're businesspeople. They're used to lying.

When somebody "retires" and the boss who forcibly retired him says, "We deeply regret Mr. So-and-sos resignation..."

I doubt they wanted the plug pulled completely, especially Gilbert. All of those buildings he bought are worthless without this rail line. Here is the letter that they wrote the mayor and governor. They still want to build the 3.4 mile line. I'd welcome that over nothing at all: http://download.gannett.edgesuite.ne...11GovMayor.pdf

**Flintoid** · December-14-11, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I doubt they wanted the plug pulled completely, especially Gilbert. All of those buildings he bought are worthless without this rail line. Here is the letter that they wrote the mayor and governor. They still want to build the 3.4 mile line. I'd welcome that over nothing at all: http://download.gannett.edgesuite.ne...11GovMayor.pdf

Now do we really think all of those buildings are "worthless?" Honestly? Let's try to avoid the dramatization of the situation.

**Detroitnerd** · December-14-11, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I doubt they wanted the plug pulled completely, especially Gilbert. All of those buildings he bought are worthless without this rail line. Here is the letter that they wrote the mayor and governor. They still want to build the 3.4 mile line. I'd welcome that over nothing at all: http://download.gannett.edgesuite.ne...11GovMayor.pdf

Interesting. The one thing that makes me kinda trust Gilbert on this is the amount of money he's spent. But maybe that's more indicative of long-term faith than anything else... And if they want to build the toonerville trolley again, I'll still be just as opposed to it.

**iheartthed** · December-14-11, 02:40 PM

I also just looked at the planned route for this so called BRT [[this isn't what other cities are doing btw). It's absurd that Bing would settle for this as an alternative to the light rail. It doesn't even serve the same purpose!

http://cmsimg.detnews.com/apps/pbcsi...W=600&Border=0

The only thing that makes sense is the line going between Detroit and the airport:
http://cmsimg.detnews.com/apps/pbcsi...W=600&Border=0