Feds, Snyder kill Woodward Light Rail Line

**brizee** · December-14-11, 02:06 AM

To hell with this entire state.

Hope and optimism, just fucking NUKED.

I can go any place in America where smile and lie to my face like snakes, At least those other towns I won't be forced to drive with the highest goddamn car insurance in the country.

**Modusvivendi** · December-14-11, 02:18 AM

This is just plain sad, but not surprising. Out here in California they have been talking about and supposedly planning for a high speed rail between San Francisco and Los Angeles for decades, but so far not one inch of track has been laid and the last I read they are estimating the line gets completed in the 2030s, if at all. The American public just does not have the appetite or vision for large scale infrastructure investments anymore like we once did. While not a panacea, a rail line in Detroit could have at least provided jobs and an impetus for growth around the terminals. It would have also signaled that there is some potential left in Detroit. What killing the rail line says is this: "Dont bother believing in Detroit because we certainly do not, which is why we won't invest on infrastructure.". Very sad.

**stasu1213** · December-14-11, 02:48 AM

I would not be surprise if the leaders knew the financial condition of Detroit for a while.Elected officials might had postured in support of light rail knowing that it would not come to pass due to foreknowledge of the city's lack of money.

Ravine · December-14-11, 03:19 AM

C'mon, that seems pretty far-fetched. You don't really think they would knowingly jerk us around like that, do you?

**casscorridor** · December-14-11, 03:26 AM

First they say we can't have light-rail, even though the capital spending is already lined up, because we don't have a regional transit authority or dedicated funding source in place. Then they go on to say we are about to have an RTA, and dedicated funding but "high-speed buses" are more "efficient" and better serves our region, because in case you didn't know, we are Southeast Michigan and we don't do rail here, we do bus.

Well good news "Southeast Michigan", you gonna get a bus. Same damn bus you've probably honked at to get out of the way on Woodward because its so damn slow. There won't be any real BRT because that means building stations, creating dedicated right-away... precisely the costs associated with light-rail. And Snyder/Bing/La Hood are trying to look good as they cancel infrastructure projects.

While the rest of the country looks in at what they know as Detroit, not Southeast Michigan [[does anyone outside greater Detroit understand this?). They see a city and region and now even the entire state of Michigan as behind the times, seemingly stuck in the 1950s. Of course, our problems are America's problems, but in Detroit everything is intensified. The light-rail project symbolized a possible change of course, a change now seemingly much further away.

**animatedmartian** · December-14-11, 04:20 AM

Originally Posted by Ravine

C'mon, that seems pretty far-fetched. You don't really think they would knowingly jerk us around like that, do you?

Maybe not knowingly...but they certainly love making Detroiters upset.

**brizee** · December-14-11, 04:22 AM

What kills me is the charade.

They were talking out of both sides of their sides of their mouths as recently as a few weeks ago.

This wasn't a spur of the moment decision. This has been planned for awhile.

Snyder smiles alot and smooth talks, but at the end of the day he and Bing are just....fuck it.

If there was any justice and the world the Transit secretary, governor, mayor, council, county execs all of em would have their cars curbed and forced to use the public transportation they hoist on everyone else.

See how quick their tune changes.

I was a few months away from purchasing a few [[very modest dilapidated) properties near Woodward. All based on a bold faced, knowing LIE.

**laphoque** · December-14-11, 05:18 AM

Charles Pugh said on his fan page at 2pm yesterday:

Today we approved Henry Gaffney and Robert Polk for seats on the Woodward Light Rail Authority. Congratulations to them both. We had a solid batch of candidates, and those not selected will be offered a position on a special transportation task force so we can still harness their skills and expertise.

Either council had no idea or Charles Pugh is politically tone deaf. They probably won't tell us when they decided to nix the light rail but it was October when Snyder announced his buses. In that announcement it included Woodward as a route. Did Bing make any statements in support of light rail since that announcement? He did switch ownership to DEGC... which, I guess, is where projects go to die.

Bing wasted all of our time with this. I'd like another mayor.

**laphoque** · December-14-11, 05:21 AM

The city needs to learn not to constantly fulfill our pessimism. We're not a pessimistic lot out of nature; it's a learned behavior.

**Dexlin** · December-14-11, 05:41 AM

Originally Posted by brizee

What kills me is the charade.

They were talking out of both sides of their sides of their mouths as recently as a few weeks ago.

This wasn't a spur of the moment decision. This has been planned for awhile.

Snyder smiles alot and smooth talks, but at the end of the day he and Bing are just....fuck it.

If there was any justice and the world the Transit secretary, governor, mayor, council, county execs all of em would have their cars curbed and forced to use the public transportation they hoist on everyone else.

See how quick their tune changes.

I was a few months away from purchasing a few [[very modest dilapidated) properties near Woodward. All based on a bold faced, knowing LIE.

Quoted for truth. To be clear, even if they'd let us know earlier that this was in trouble, I'd be disappointed. But, at least we'd have been prepared. It's become clear in just the last few hours that people have known for quite some time this wasn't happening. This is like a master class in how not to handle bad news. Our trust in our officials was already shot; were they trying to kill off any last vestiges of trust we had in them?

Honestly, what was the point in dragging this along knowing that it was to fail? Who wins out of this? No one ends up looking good. Every single one of them is tainted with this failure, now. How anyone in this region could vote for Bing or Snyder, again, is beyond me. I truly hope both are one-termers. They deserve it. Neither has risen to any of the occasions facing us. These are Grade A spineless, cowards of ridiculous proportions. If we were in Japan, these idiots would have long since resigned in shame.

Detroit is a tough nut to crack, but that doesn't mean that you don't even try. Go big or go f%cking home. Honestly, if they don't think the region is going to pay for the operating costs of a single section of light rail, where the heck do they think they are going to find money to operate an entire system of regional buses? That simply doesn't make any sense.

The light rail ain't coming, and neither are the buses. It's a ruse. Transit in Detroit is through, especially if we have to rely on this legislature to do the right thing. They couldn't possibly care any less about moving the working poor around Southeast Michigan.

**Dexlin** · December-14-11, 05:51 AM

All that said, you want to know the very worst thing about this? The original lie that's been going on for at least months [[maybe a year or two) was bad enough all by itself. The worst thing in all of this is that when the lie was revealed -- and please note how this "accidentially" slipped out with the mayor's office and the governor's office almost nowhere to be found when this information was "accidentially" tripped upon -- they decide to keep f#cking lying with this ruse about a BRT system. Even after they've been caught they can't bring themselves to level with the people.

Forget about the actual issue of transit, here, this is about as botched a response to a crisis as you'll ever find. Eventually, when you're in a hole and realize it, you stop digging. Not Michigan. Keep lying your way through these multiple state crisis...and watch the population of the state to continue to slowly melt away.

We are not your children, politicians; we are you bosses. You will not continue to lie to us without electoral consequences. Hear that. Recalls? I'd sign almost any recall of a politician who has lied there way through these crises, now, Republican or Democrat. Our politicians aren't the only ones who come out of this looking like fools, this bungling reflects poorly on the image of the ENTIRE state.

**R8RBOB** · December-14-11, 06:30 AM

BRT is DOA. Snyder, LaHood and Bing need to go to Pontiac and have a sit-down with L. Brooks Patterson. He needs to tell them why a regional transit authority will never fly in Southeastern Michigan. Well, I get to explain the reason again.

BRT will not work because the "regional transit authority" will need people to voluntary park their cars to ride "buses" well "high-speed buses." This will not happen because people have an negative stigmatization when it comes to Metro Detroit buses. Let's see: buses run behind schedule and unruly people ride the buses can make people hold their noses.

In Detroit, the only people who ride buses are the one unable to drive a car. Same with Oakland and Macomb Counties with SMART. No one is going to volunteer to park their car to ride a bus so why would someone like Patterson would be willing to go along with a RTA when he believes his citizens, well the citizens that own automobiles would never ride the buses.

Somehow, I see Snyder getting disappointed once again by his own party.

Ravine · December-14-11, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by Ravine
C'mon, that seems pretty far-fetched. You don't really think they would knowingly jerk us around like that, do you?

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

Maybe not knowingly...but they certainly love making Detroiters upset.

OK, thanks. I feel better, now.

**Alley_Cat** · December-14-11, 07:04 AM

Bus Rapid Transit: Bogotá.

http://www.streetfilms.org/bus-rapid-transit-bogota/

**iheartthed** · December-14-11, 07:10 AM

I guess Snyder is about to learn a lot about how much different running a state is from running a business. Imagine the backlash coming when he tries to position an emergency financial manager in Detroit. He just lost all credibility on his claim that his top priority is to see the city succeed. We're a year into this and I can't see how exactly he's treated the city [[in)differently than any other governor in the past two generations.

And after all of that talk about keeping the kids in Detroit instead of letting them flee to Chicago? Hilarious. If any kid is asking me whether s/he should stay in Detroit or go to Chicago... my answer is run to Chicago as fast as you can and don't look back. Michigan is incapable of doing anything other than building freeways.

**Novine** · December-14-11, 07:14 AM

"Hey now, Patterson came to the table with the Cobo Authority and they inked a deal that's in place and working, as far as I know at least. Yes, I recognize that Brooks likes it his way or the highway. But Barbara Rose Collins and Monica Conyers weren't any better on this side."

I thought the difference was obvious but let me explain it. Cobo was something Brooks wanted to get his hands on and control. He has zero interest in an RTA or BRT or anything that involves transit. If he did, he would have already made clear that he wanted to control it. He doesn't. No interest equals no money equals transit in SE Michigan is dead.

**DetroitPlanner** · December-14-11, 07:15 AM

Here is reality:
1. Light rail was a pet project of the Kilpatrick family and Grandholm. Both Kilpatricks and Granholm are gone and not coming back.
2. There was never enough money to build Woodward Light Rail and to operate it. The likelyhood of getting additional tax dollars for these two needed expenses was extremely doubtful. The private sector support [[and money) has been quiet since the Kilpatricks were ousted from office.
3. Political leadership has changed and has had enough time to assess these plans. They want to go in a different direction.

Good plans without money or political support will not go anywhere.
Moral of the story? If you want light rail you need to come up with the money and have politicans that want it. Planning is one thing, implementing it is something entirely different.

Disappointing? Of course it is. Realistic? Of course it is.

Ravine · December-14-11, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by Novine

"Hey now, Patterson came to the table with the Cobo Authority and they inked a deal that's in place and working, as far as I know at least. Yes, I recognize that Brooks likes it his way or the highway. But Barbara Rose Collins and Monica Conyers weren't any better on this side."

I thought the difference was obvious but let me explain it. Cobo was something Brooks wanted to get his hands on and control. He has zero interest in an RTA or BRT or anything that involves transit. If he did, he would have already made clear that he wanted to control it. He doesn't. No interest equals no money equals transit in SE Michigan is dead.

Here Here!! Settled then, it is!! It's the fat white guy's fault!! We march on Patterson!!

We can meet at Brooks' Lumber and then lumber toward Brooks!!

**louis** · December-14-11, 08:00 AM

Snyder y u no pass this

**Dexlin** · December-14-11, 08:07 AM

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, Detroit! You lose your last real shot at serious rapid transit, and Snyder is about to send in the EM and fire thousands of employees regardless of the decisions you make. What a way to close out 2011.

**bailey** · December-14-11, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by laphoque

The city needs to learn not to constantly fulfill our pessimism. We're not a pessimistic lot out of nature; it's a learned behavior.

Plus one. Seriously ... been saying it each and every time this topic came up over the last few years that whatever is the final result will be the worst possible choice. Funny thing is even this surpassed what I thought to be the worst proposal. I thought we'd end up with a 3 mile parking shuttle tram that runs at the curb, in traffic, with a stop on every corner. Lo and behold, just when you think metro Detroit can't be an even more stupid place to live, they go and do something like busses dressed up to look like trains.

Detroit, the region and it's leaders are not to blame. WE are to blame because we live here and enable this stupidity.

**KOMPOST** · December-14-11, 08:13 AM

Don't worry, I heard that there is talk of 3 casinos to be built in the city of Detroit.
If passed, these will be the answer to all of Detroit's economical woes.
Promise!

**DetroitPlanner** · December-14-11, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by Ravine

Here Here!! Settled then, it is!! It's the fat white guy's fault!! We march on Patterson!!

We can meet at Brooks' Lumber and then lumber toward Brooks!!

All sarcasm aside, LaHood works for the President of the United States. His inclusion in this indicates that the federal agency that would provide most of its funding does not want to see this happen. The President plays a much larger role in this project than Brooks ever would.

The City and Federal Government are broke. The State while not broke cannot afford to fund all of this and not become broke again.

**bailey** · December-14-11, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

All sarcasm aside, LaHood works for the President of the United States. His inclusion in this indicates that the federal agency that would provide most of its funding does not want to see this happen. The President plays a much larger role in this project than Brooks ever would.

The City and Federal Government are broke. The State while not broke cannot afford to fund all of this and not become broke again.

Also noticed that one of the guys holding the hammer and the coffin nails is curiously absent from thread title and much of the bitching. From the article sounds as if BING's discussion with lahood was the final death blow to this plan.

**Dexlin** · December-14-11, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

All sarcasm aside, LaHood works for the President of the United States. His inclusion in this indicates that the federal agency that would provide most of its funding does not want to see this happen. The President plays a much larger role in this project than Brooks ever would.

The City and Federal Government are broke. The State while not broke cannot afford to fund all of this and not become broke again.

You have got to be kidding me with this entire post, especially with that handle of yours. First off, the federal government doesn't fund operational costs, which is the reason they cited for not going forward with the LRT. The only people that have control over operations funding is the region and state in which the transit system exists. Seeing as how Oakland County has been the obstacle to forming and RTA and the city doesn't have the money, it's downright silly to say that the presidential administration plays a bigger role in the failure of this than Patterson.

BTW, Bing holds quite a bit of responsibility for this, too. He's never fully been invested in this, never saw the real importance, and tried to farm out the decision making to other people so he wouldn't have to deal with it. Between Bing and Patterson, this thing didn't have a chance. Fact is, this thing was killed locally, not at the federal level who was fronting ridiculously large grants for capital costs.

Secondly, how are you going to say the city and federal government are broke and leave the state out? Is it because of your political lean and who currently controls the executive branch of each of the three? Are you really going to be that political? That's all really beside the point, though. Again, the decision supposedly came down to operation costs, which is a local/state issue, not a federal one. The feds only provide money for capital investment [[i.e. actually building the thing).