"Follow General Motors' lead: Live in Detroit" From this Sundays Free Press

[Lorax]

So you live in Europe half the year, Miami half the year and Southfield half the year. Where do you live the four halves of the year?

Perhaps you'd like a job managing my estates?

You seem to take a great interest in my whereabouts.

Yeah, I have homes in all three places, and since you're interested, I'll tell you the one in Miami is on the intracoastal waterway in a highrise and has 3000 sq. ft., the one in Southfield is 1400 sq. feet on a half acre facing a nature preserve, and the one in Paris is about 1200 sq. feet. and is situated in the 7th arrondissement near Au Bon Marche, a fantastic department store with a food hall unlike anything in the states.

So needless to say, with so many homes, and so few half years to spend in them I have a dilemma!

[DetroitDad]

Exactly. When you can't find a place or afford a place that is reasonably priced to live in the downtown area or midtown or something [[which are both incredibly over priced) Detroit really sucks. Try taking the bus or walking around some place east of eastern market or west of WSU for a couple of months and then tell us how you feel about it. I've done this for some time now and will gladly leave when my degree is finished... It's not like I will actually be able to find a job here. I mean, I haven't had a long lasting, stable job for the entire time that I have lived here and I have constantly tried to find one. I have never been so poor or had to go without so many things in my entire life. Try living on a monthly food budget of like 60 dollars for a month for like 3 years straight and then tell me why you love Detroit.

Downtown Detroit isn't that expensive. A big draw of an urban neighborhood is that it has a mix of different incomes and types of people. Downtown, Midtown, Corktown, and New Center all have plenty of low income housing, demand for roommates, and cheap available apartments.

[dcmorrison12]

Exactly. When you can't find a place or afford a place that is reasonably priced to live in the downtown area or midtown or something [[which are both incredibly over priced) Detroit really sucks. Try taking the bus or walking around some place east of eastern market or west of WSU for a couple of months and then tell us how you feel about it. I've done this for some time now and will gladly leave when my degree is finished... It's not like I will actually be able to find a job here. I mean, I haven't had a long lasting, stable job for the entire time that I have lived here and I have constantly tried to find one. I have never been so poor or had to go without so many things in my entire life. Try living on a monthly food budget of like 60 dollars for a month for like 3 years straight and then tell me why you love Detroit.

Epiphany, I'm sorry to hear about your poor experience with Detroit. I've been down here for two years and I've had two very stable jobs - one was a year [[then I quit) and the one I have now is going on 2 years. I've managed to maintain a decent standard of living [[for an undergraduate student trying to pay for my cost of living) and I've acquired two internships in the City of Detroit. In other words, I've always managed to have a job in the City of Detroit. My girlfriend was able to find a job in Detroit only 2 weeks after moving down and she's never been unemployed in the City since [[2 years now). Also, I have a friend who's had the same job [[again, in the COD) for 2 years now and has never been unemployed in the City.

This is my experience of the city.

[ThaFuzz]

I have an account with Spotcrime, and regularly check the DPD stats and map, so I know all about crime in Detroit. I stand by my comment that much of Detroit is safer than the suburbs, Downtown is doubly so...

So what do you have to say to the recent allegations made by Kym Worthy that the DPD had been trimming murders from crime statistics? What about the notoriously poor 911 service and police response? A crime can't become a statistic when the victims can't get get the time of day from the police, whose records are the source of crime statistics.

The urban hipster lifestyle is just as dangerously smug, naive and destructive as the suburban excess lifestyle.

[ThaFuzz]

Downtown Detroit isn't that expensive. A big draw of an urban neighborhood is that it has a mix of different incomes and types of people. Downtown, Midtown, Corktown, and New Center all have plenty of low income housing, demand for roommates, and cheap available apartments.

1. Living in downtown might not be expensive for your income, but it might be for epiphany's.

2. That an urban neighborhood has a mix of different incomes is an exaggeration. You will not find someone living near or below the poverty line in a Park Shelton condo or a Woodbridge Victorian.

3. As for the low income housing/cheap apartments - what are their qualities? When I was apartment hunting a few years ago, the only studio/one bedroom apartments I could have afforded were in Detroit, Hamtramck or Highland Park. The best any of the newspaper ads could say was "freshly painted" or "sunny." Not very inspiring for confidence.


This whole thread is another ridiculous smugfest that's as bad as any group of suburbanites sharing their ignorant fears of the city.

[casscorridor]

Responding to several things:

NOTE: I am white, I grew up in the middle-class suburbs and moved to the city. I'd addressing agruments which are usually from white people who live in the suburbs.

1. There is lots of affordable housing in Detroit, including in the "nicer" neighborhoods such as Midtown or Woodbridge. In fact, we probably have the most affordable housing of any major city in the entire country. Where else can you find a 3 bedroom loft in an urban district [[eastern market) for $700??

2. It's hard to compare the amount of grocery stores, retail, etc in suburbs vs. city [[and especially suburbs vs. downtown) if you ignore the scale of things. A 10min drive in the suburbs you might go 5 miles. In Downtown Detroit alone, in just one-square mile there are hundreds of restaraunts and bars, thousands of appartments, multiple grocery stores, dozens of shops, entertainment, etc. Everything is within a 10 min walk. What is within a 10min walk of most suburban homes? Maybe one or two stores, or maybe nothing at all. If I had a car, [[which I don't, and its a common myth that you need on in Detroit), I could drive to EVERYTHING I could possibly need within 10 min. Most suburban residents drive 20, 30, 40 minutes just to get to work.

3. Even in the least walkable places in Detroit, they are still walkable than MOST suburbs [[sure Royal Oak and Ferdnale stand out, but there is only a few places like that, and they are usually surrounded by sprawl)

4. The way crime in Detroit is presented is a myth. People don't get randomly murdered. Violent crime is usually either drug related or domestic, and between people who know each other. How many drug dealers do you know that are out to kill you? Probably none. Almost ALL other crime is related to economic conditions, would you steal or rob a store? NO, probably not, because you have money, you have middle-class privlage that you were born with. You never had to live through what the people you demonize live through. If we ended the drug war, had true economic justice, and had a feminist society there would probably appear to go away [[not entirely, but compared to today, it would be drasticly reduced). In addition, the crime myth is also constructed on the assumption that there is no crime in the suburbs, when there really is. Drug use [[white people have the privlage to get away with this easier), white-color crime, drunk driving and speeding, domestic abuse, etc all happen in suburban communities. Not to mention the lifestyle is much more destructive, and a crime in itself: SUV's use oil that we have to kill people in Iraq to get, while polluting our planet and causing climate change. Most of the time its these same people who have money to invest in Marathon Oil and Exxon and who work for those corporations. I guess we have to think about what the defintion of a crime is? Or definition of murder. Murder is still murder even if it takes years to kill you [[hense, climate change, the "silent killer").

5. People in Detroit do not want to "kill whitey" or kill people from the suburbs... most people I've met that are from the city are nice, friendly, accepting people. When I walk down the street people are nice and say hi, and don't look at you as a suspect, even though my female friends get cat calls and sexully harrassed, but that happens in any major city.

6. Many myths about Detroit get passed on to other cities and to major corporations such as Kroger who won't open up shop in Detroit... they state crime, insurance costs, and other issues. It sounds like modern day red-lining to me.

7. People state there is no demand for new stores or groceries to open up in the city. Then why are the few places that are open ALWAYS OVERCROWDED??? I rid the woodward bus and don't have room to sit. I go to the grocery store and there is lines out into the isles. I go to my favorite bar and there is no tables. Every appartment that is left is occupied. There must be SOMETHING going on here, besides "supply and demand." Maybe it is that market economies NEVER meet suply in demand, hense Detroit, which has massive demand for goods and services, with little supply, and where investment flows from inside of the city outward into the suburbs.

8. Things are the way the are in Detroit not because people made shitty choices and should "pull themselves up by the bootstraps" to solve it. They are messed up because social institutions-- Capitalism, White Supremacy, Patriarchy, Imperialism, etc that must be dismantled and replaced by something much much more humane. Detroit will never be healed until the whole world is healed. Revolution within our lifetime!

[2blocksaway]

Cass what have you been smoking.

In response to your points...

1. True

2. Mostly not true. There is no way in any square mile in Detroit that there are even close to 100 restaurants and bars combined.

thousands of apartments? maybe a thousand or two. so i'll give you that one. maybe.

multiple grocery stores,? nope.

dozens of shops? maybe if you count beauty shops, cell phone stores, liquor stores, carry out food, pawn shops, and check cashing outlets.

3. Most of Detroits neighborhoods were considered sprawl when they were built. Detroits outer neighborhoods are very similar to inner ring suburbs. Detroit invented sprawl and never even knew it.

4. Violent crime. Yes. All other crime is related to the economic conditions and ethics of the people/persons committing the crimes. Detroit is very poor so it has more crime. Drug sentences are B.S. and racially biased.

5. True. I agree. Most people in the world are decent people. The bad ones just stick out. However, I think there are a lot of bad people in Detroit. Just check out the sex offender registry sometime.

6. If a company can make money somewhere they will open a store there. Period point blank!!!!! The only color they care about is green. Why do most stores in Detroit have guards and most in the burbs don't? Do you think these businesses want to add to their payroll because of perception? They so it because the probability of crime is higher in most Detroit neighborhoods.

7. I see an awful lot of empty houses, apartment buildings when I am driving around town. I see businesses closing and people moving the hell out!!! Yes, some businesses are doing well but many are not. There is no grand conspiracy to deprive the residents of Detroit of housing, food, and drink.

8. Who knows where it all started. we know blacks moved in and whites moved out blah, blah, blah. mistakes were made. regardless of what happened in the past the residents of detroit need to admit that they need to diversify the citys population and kiss some ass to attract residents.

sounds like you would have preferred Moscow circa 1970.

[dcmorrison12]

Cass what have you been smoking.

In response to your points...

1. True

2. Mostly not true. There is no way in any square mile in Detroit that there are even close to 100 restaurants and bars combined.

thousands of apartments? maybe a thousand or two. so i'll give you that one. maybe.

multiple grocery stores,? nope.

dozens of shops? maybe if you count beauty shops, cell phone stores, liquor stores, carry out food, pawn shops, and check cashing outlets.

3. Most of Detroits neighborhoods were considered sprawl when they were built. Detroits outer neighborhoods are very similar to inner ring suburbs. Detroit invented sprawl and never even knew it.

4. Violent crime. Yes. All other crime is related to the economic conditions and ethics of the people/persons committing the crimes. Detroit is very poor so it has more crime. Drug sentences are B.S. and racially biased.

5. True. I agree. Most people in the world are decent people. The bad ones just stick out. However, I think there are a lot of bad people in Detroit. Just check out the sex offender registry sometime.

6. If a company can make money somewhere they will open a store there. Period point blank!!!!! The only color they care about is green. Why do most stores in Detroit have guards and most in the burbs don't? Do you think these businesses want to add to their payroll because of perception? They so it because the probability of crime is higher in most Detroit neighborhoods.

7. I see an awful lot of empty houses, apartment buildings when I am driving around town. I see businesses closing and people moving the hell out!!! Yes, some businesses are doing well but many are not. There is no grand conspiracy to deprive the residents of Detroit of housing, food, and drink.

8. Who knows where it all started. we know blacks moved in and whites moved out blah, blah, blah. mistakes were made. regardless of what happened in the past the residents of detroit need to admit that they need to diversify the citys population and kiss some ass to attract residents.

sounds like you would have preferred Moscow circa 1970.

2blocksaway, I am a resident in the City of Detroit and clearly, you are not. All I can say is, you are absolutely an idiot.

[DetroitDad]

2blocksaway, I am a resident in the City of Detroit and clearly, you are not. All I can say is, you are absolutely an idiot.

You made your points. Don't let them get to you, just sit back and let them show their true colors. These attitudes are why we have issue with people living in the suburbs. We get this from them all the time. They belittle Detroit instead of working on their communities own problems.

I bet Southeast Michigan's urban areas fix their safety problems [[crime) before our nation's suburbs fix their safety problems [[car culture). Gentlemen's bet, what do you say?

[iheartthed]

2. Mostly not true. There is no way in any square mile in Detroit that there are even close to 100 restaurants and bars combined.

Go to maps.google.com and search "bars 48226".

[2blocksaway]

ooooooooh, i don't live there so i don't know anything about it.

never heard that one here before.

dc, if that's you only comeback you don't have one.

iheart,

i did not know that zip code was only a square mile.

i only count about 60 from jefferson to 75 and the lodge to 375 which is about a square mile.

anyway my point was he was exaggerating the greatness.

[iheartthed]

ooooooooh, i don't live there so i don't know anything about it.

never heard that one here before.

dc, if that's you only comeback you don't have one.

iheart,

i did not know that zip code was only a square mile.

i only count about 60 from jefferson to 75 and the lodge to 375 which is about a square mile.

anyway my point was he was exaggerating the greatness.

You should find your 100 if you then google "restaurants 48226". Btw, you'd be hard pressed to find such a concentration of bars and restaurants in any other square mile of Metro Detroit...

[2blocksaway]

and you know what DetroitDad?

All of you car hating isn't going to get you very far here. Why is Detroit, Detroit? Cars!!! Cars give us a freedom most people could only dream about a few generations ago.

So, you can say all you want about urban safety and suburban safety and pretend that it's all the same but you aren't fooling anybody. Car accidents happen. Crime is planned and it is a violation of your person.

Rape, murder, robbery, car accident. Which one of these things don't belong?

You basically live in a gated community so don't preach about how safe you feel living in Detroit. Tell someone who lives at Conner and Gratiot how safe the city is.

I'm in the city everyday and if you haven't guessed I only live 2 blocks from the city. I know of what I speak. Where is the closest abandoned burnt out house to where you live? I have one 12 houses from me. The first one on the block once my street crosses in to Detroit.

[2blocksaway]

iheart,

i would hope so. the largest concentration should be downtown. I just think he was exaggeration. That's all.

There are a few hundred.

There are a few hundred bars and restaurants in Downtown Detroit.

There are hundreds of bars and restaurants in Downtown Toronto.

Just sayin'

[dcmorrison12]

2blocksaway... You have way too much anger to do anything progessive in this region. You're better off moving out of the state. There's no way you, and others who think the way you do will be contributing to a rebirth of Detroit and Michigan. It's your negative, backwards thinking that's gotten us into this deep hole. The definition of insanity is "continuing to do the same thing, but expecting a different outcome" We need a new thought process, new leadership in the region, and less people like you.

[iheartthed]

iheart,

i would hope so. the largest concentration should be downtown. I just think he was exaggeration. That's all.

There are a few hundred.

There are a few hundred bars and restaurants in Downtown Detroit.

There are hundreds of bars and restaurants in Downtown Toronto.

Just sayin'

So what is the point of all your Negative-Nancyism? Clearly we know that downtown Detroit is not downtown Toronto. That is why this forum exists.

But on the other hand downtown Detroit is the closest thing Metro Detroit has to downtown Toronto. So I don't get your "my shit smells better than yours" tone. Maybe that isn't what you intend, but that is what it sounds like...

[GREENTROIT]

This thread was good but has turned to shit.

Downtown living is good for some people. Suburban living is good for some people. Rural living is good for some people. Each has its benefits and negatives. To say one is better than the other in entirety is really shortsighted.

If you live downtown you have a lot of activities to choose from. Great nightlife, shows, bars, restaurants. No great need for a car. A lot of variety in types of living spaces. There is usually great cultural diversity. But you have to deal with higher crime rates, worse schools, noise pollution, and air pollution.

Suburban living is considered a good place to raise a family. They have good schools, good public services, and lower crime rates. Living spaces are usually confined to single family homes or pockets of apartments. But these provide privacy and a place for your children to run around outside without fear of any number of things. There isn't a great deal of things to do for entertainment. Besides movies you usually travel to the City for entertainment. There is usually a commute involved in your workday. But these are small prices to pay for the generally peaceful life you have.

I've never experienced rural living... But I can see how it would have its negatives and positives.

My point is that whichever lifestyle you've chose is the best for you. Not everyone is the same. Some people are so concerned with crime they would never live in Detroit. Others are comfortable enough that they would accept the slight increase in chances of being victimized to live in the center of the action, cut their commute and enjoy the activities downtown living provides. People aren't worse because they choose one or the other...

[2blocksaway]

dc,

you don't know sh*t.

i'm trying to do positive things in the area. i own and maintain properties in wayne, and oakland counties.

i own and maintain properties in detroit. i see what goes on next to and across the street from my places in detroit and i can't say it is all positive.

i just think way too many people here are way too protective of detroit and refuse to see the whole picture.

i chose to stay here and fight but i will not close my eyes to what is really going on.

i agree things and people need to change and a lot of the change needs to be forced on people.

a great example of this would be what is going on in the dps. schools are closing and people don't like it.

why don't they like it? i don't know. it makes all the sense in the world but people just want more of the same.

i heart,

i don't know how you can detect "tone" in the typed work.

like i said before i was saying that an exaggerated point was made and was trying to be more realistic about it.

[crawford]

DC is full of crap. His knowledge of the city is laughable.

[epiphany]

Well, $700 dollars a month for an apartment definitely isn't in my budget when I can not find a stable job and I have definitely looked. I am either overqualified or not experienced enough.To top that off, I have had 3 employers that literally would not pay me. Pay day would come and I wouldn't get a check until sometimes weeks later. Illegal? Yes. But you take what you can get and keep waiting for a check when no one else will hire you. I am also a student, so it's quite difficult to find employers willing to work around my full-time schedule. My budget is more like $350 a month with utilities included because of the financial situation that being here has put me in and even with a rent that low I still struggle to buy food and forget buying new clothes or a winter coat or shoes or anything like that. School is also a major stress when you can't afford to buy books or supplies. If I would have stayed in Pittsburgh or down south or moved somewhere else I could definitely afford something better, but here it's not really an option for me. And, it's super hard to go for interviews when you can't afford nice clothes to wear to them.

Considering what you get for the price Detroit is NOT cheap. The apartments that I have afforded have been really, really ghetto and filled with pests and rodents. It's hard to find roommates when you have a cat.. I feel like a lot of people responding to my comment really have not struggled or dealt with not having money or even understand what being poor really is. It is very frustrating.

On the bright side, I went downtown today and walked up the river walk and to a few other spots to take some photographs and I am really impressed with how the river walk development is coming along. I saw a sign saying that they were building a nature trail and other stuff for phase 2 of the project. Detroit definitely has nice things about it, but I don't think that people really understand how difficult it is for most of the people living here.

[DetroitDad]

dc,

you don't know sh*t.

i'm trying to do positive things in the area. i own and maintain properties in wayne, and oakland counties.

i own and maintain properties in detroit. i see what goes on next to and across the street from my places in detroit and i can't say it is all positive.

i just think way too many people here are way too protective of detroit and refuse to see the whole picture.

i chose to stay here and fight but i will not close my eyes to what is really going on.

i agree things and people need to change and a lot of the change needs to be forced on people.

a great example of this would be what is going on in the dps. schools are closing and people don't like it.

why don't they like it? i don't know. it makes all the sense in the world but people just want more of the same.

i heart,

i don't know how you can detect "tone" in the typed work.

like i said before i was saying that an exaggerated point was made and was trying to be more realistic about it.

Now, hold on a second. Did anyone say Detroit didn't have it's share of problems? Just because we are momentarily recognizing the positive, or pointing out problems in different areas of Detroit outside the city, doesn't mean we are saying we are better than anyone, or that Detroit is a panacea. There a plenty of threads and problems to make it impossible to forget that Detroit has it's share of dysfunctionality. We can be proud about how far we've come and still recognize and work on our regional problems.

It seems like someone is just looking for an argument.

Oh, and Detroit doesn't have that many what where....? http://www.insidedetroit.org/virtual...entertainment/

TRUST ME, that list is over 100.

[2blocksaway]

Responding to several things:


In Downtown Detroit alone, in just one-square mile there are hundreds of restaraunts and bars

A little over 130 does not make hundreds.

[dexterferry]

god this is so retarded. I can't believe how insecure some people are about their personal decisions. live where you want. live where you are happy. the city is dangerous. the suburbs are lame. accept your choice and move on already.

the point of this thread was supposed to be that some people have a nice life downtown. if you're one of them, why explain your happiness in terms of comparing everything to the suburbs; if you're happy in the suburbs, why be so bothered by the fact that some people are happy living downtown?

[mwilbert]

the point of this thread was supposed to be that some people have a nice life downtown. if you're one of them, explain your happiness in terms of comparing everything to the suburbs; if you're happy in the suburbs, why be so bothered by the fact that some people are happy living downtown?

As Gore Vidal said, "It is not enough to succeed; others must fail."

It could be a motto for the region.

[DetroitDad]

and you know what DetroitDad?

All of you car hating isn't going to get you very far here. Why is Detroit, Detroit? Cars!!! Cars give us a freedom most people could only dream about a few generations ago.

Exactly 2blocks, you prove my point to the letter.

The question is; "freedom from what?". In the early days cars gave us freedom from the massive dirty and dangerous industrial city environment. Cars provided freedom by escape.

What environment do cars let us escape in the early 21st century; suburbia. They let us escape isolation and a horrible built environment. It is even arguable that cars no longer provide freedom, as you are chained to that dangerous and expensive heap of metal, that will bankrupt and destroy the planet for our children.

Detroit, I advocate that we no longer need cars for freedom from our built environment. Instead, I say we change that environment to something sustainable and enjoyable. I say we start treating these cars as appliances, and not extensions of our egos. I say cars should be an appliance designed around a community instead of the community being designed around the appliance [[automobile).

The truth is, there is no competition between a city and it's suburbs, they both have their problems. Both sets of problems were solutions of past problems and deficiencies of those solutions. It was not meant that we stop advancing our society, as all of us deserve better than that. All of us deserve better than what we have now.