Snyder tells young people: Forget Chicago, be part of changing Detroit

[Dexlin]

More words from the governor. He speaks beautifully and many times pitifully of Detroit, yet his actions as governor paint a really different picture of what type of committment he has to the city.

Snyder has some of the best rhetoric concerning the revitalization of Michigan cities, in general, that we've seen in many administrations, Democratic or Republican. It's why I kind of had some hope for him, at least when it came to urban issues. But, it's turned out to be just that: rhetoric. Let me clear, you follow his actual policy positions, and there is not a successful Rustbelt city out there that would be successful under his policies. You could not building a Pittsburgh renaissance on top of Snyder's policy positions. You are not going to rebuild Detroit or any other city in this state by robbing from the poor, the elderly and students; you're not going to rebuild Detroit with gussied-up, trickle-down Reagonomics. nah gonna happen.

[louis]

Chicago's overrated, no doubt in my mind ........ but even for those who agree, can Detroit even compete with the likes of Minneapolis, Pittsburgh, Indy, or Cincinnati [[Upper Midwest cities that are all increasingly appealing to young professionals)? I see very little reason to say "yes."

aren't we rated higher than all of those cities? http://www.city-data.com/forum/north...-rankings.html

[iheartthed]

The editorial in the Freep today pretty much nails it:

Most noteworthy, and laudable, is Snyder's embrace of far more open immigration policies, designed to lure highly skilled foreigners here and retain foreign students who graduate from state universities with advanced technological and scientific degrees. In a globally competitive world, it hardly makes sense to re-export that knowledge base. Snyder describes his dream as the equivalent of stapling a green card to every foreign student's diploma.

If any state can make an individual case for a far more open immigration policy, it's Michigan. Even as population declines, the higher education system remains relatively strong and attractive to students from afar. Students from other countries who would like to stay here offer an incredibly high-value opportunity to help stabilize the population.

I was gonna write about this in my first response on this thread but decided not to. I went to Michigan and met tons of people there from across the country and across the globe. Many of those students spend 4 years or more in Ann Arbor without ever traveling east of Metro airport. They are more likely to have visited Chicago or New York as students than Detroit. And nearly 100% of them will bolt out of the state once they're done with school, most hoping to land in one of the big U.S. cities.

But lobbying for such a change, either nationally or as a Michigan exemption, would require unified support from the state's congressional delegation, a broad-minded Congress and a welcoming attitude from everyone throughout Michigan.

In a state where 76.6% of residents were born here [[the second highest percentage after Louisiana), that welcome is not always forthcoming.

In this self-contained state, Michigan often tends to overlook what's happening outside its borders.

http://www.freep.com/article/2011120...xt|FRONTPAGE|p

[313rd]

The following link is for PUMP, which is Pittsburgh Urban Magnet Program. Which is a great program at keeping the "youth" in Pittsburgh.

http://www.pump.org/

Does Metro Detroit have anything similar? At one point there was the "Cool City" list, but other then saying that you live in a cool city, what did they offer?

PUMP has a great Sports Program, which is lacking in Metro Detroit in my opinion. I know there where quite a few city run leagues, but most of those are having a hard time keeping funding.

PUMP Social Networking is also very involved.

It is pretty awesome seeing all the "youth" get together and share heir great ideas.

[illwill]

NY, Chicago, D.C., Boston etc...these cities have the jobs, higher paying jobs and they're currently more livable than Detroit. Most importantly, they CATER to the young and successful. These college grads are not experiencing the hard aches that we hear about in Chicago or New York. Or what we experience on a daily basis living in Detroit. They live in nice clean, low crime, walkable neighborhoods. Lots of retail, bars, funky boutiques and ALL of their college friends are there too. These people already have a built-in support system when they move to Chicago and New York. They've been traveling to Chicago since they were a freshman in College and they're automatically expected to move there after graduation to be a part of the scene, along with their friends. Chicago is a hotbed for East Coast Grads as well. It's known as an affordable and exciting place to live. Best summer city in America.

And to touch on Snyders comments again...the young artist and creative type [[who may not be college educated) already have a built in market to sell their crafts to. A huge population of young, old, successful and wealthy people who are seeking the next hot artist, product, neighborhood or whatever to invest in. So in Chicago you can be a part of a "growing something" despite what Gov. Snyder said.


I work in R.E relocation and I personally feel like 85% of all Michigan State grads move to Chicago...if not higher. Chicago has also surpassed New York for having the highest number of University of Michigan Graduates. This is amazing when Detroit is right down the street. And the sad part is many of these people convert once they move to another city. These people turn into Cubs fans, they marry their girlfriends/boyfriends and end up settling down in the city or a Chicago suburb. Rarely do they return back to Michigan at that point.


I understand Snyders comment and I think it was very fair and necessary.. And yes, like someone mentioned above, that's Bings Job as well. Mayor Rahm Emanuel of Chicago, PERSONALLY created something called college week. He host high school students mostly from all over the Midwest to spend a summer week living in Chicago, hoping they'll choose one of Chicago's universities. He'll be expanding this experience to students through out the rest of the country as well. Chicago is grooming future talent. Again, I appreciate Snyders comments, but in today's MICROWAVE WORLD, talented and successful youngsters prefer a ready made playground. Through the hard work of the Detroiter's making changes today, Detroit will have it's turn tomorrow. I assure you!

[467riverfix]

Snyder is spot on! Chicago is nothing if not a city of Yuppies. Great idea for a bumper sticker/ad campaign: DON'T BECOME ANOTHER CHICAGO YUPPIE!

[ProudMidwesterner]

I could be wrong, but I sense an extraordinary amount of sarcasm coming from timmy43's post.

Ah, I think you're right. My sarcasm detector on the Internet is not very well calibrated, so if that's the case, I apologize for going mother grizzly above.

To get on topic, are there any further plans for a coordinated effort, like Mayor Emanuel's College Week, to bring out-of-staters to Metro Detroit? After areas of Chicago and parts of the Twin Cities, Midtown Detroit is one of the top urban Midwest neighborhoods in my opinion, and most of the suburbs, for all the divisive politics, have some of the highest standards of living in the country [[and are more affordable and less hectic than Chicago's neverending sprawl). Governor Snyder's ideas are a good first step though, and I like the idea of the Simply Michigan commercials that I see from time to time, even out here in Iowa.

[[If I had the money, I'd set up some sort of organization aimed at attracting businesses and residents to the Great Lakes region, but alas, I'm just an urbanist college student.)

[Lowell]

Chicago's overrated, no doubt in my mind ........ but even for those who agree, can Detroit even compete with the likes of Minneapolis, Pittsburgh, Indy, or Cincinnati [[Upper Midwest cities that are all increasingly appealing to young professionals)? I see very little reason to say "yes."

All those cities had their lows and pulled themselves up. Detroit can and is doing so too.

I like Chicago a lot and if I didn't like Detroit, all Detroit-Windsor, so much I would probably live there. What a great city.

My business can be done anywhere; I choose to do it here and have my business here. Why? I find the challenges here invigorating. All the cities above are defined, their power structures stable and locked-in. Detroit is like a pack of cards flipped in the air. We are undefined, our power structures are in flux and open. Our generation[s] has a unique opportunity to re-define what we are and what we can be.

I have often said that for many Detroit is lacking, even threatening, but for artists, planners, and thinkers, it is difficult to find a more exciting environment. If you thrive on challenge this is your town. If you don't and just want everything nice and perfect, then follow your heart, the other cities are for you.

So I think the governor is correct on this one - maybe it is the old Peace Corps volunteer in me. I would just like so see him followup by making the revitalization of our older core cities not just a sermon, but a passion. For starters, I would like see him support simply making those distressed areas as cheap to live in, in terms of insurance and taxation, as their surrounding metropolitan communities. I think a lot of people, young and old, would respond to that and endure the crime, beggary and lesser services if they weren't also financially penalized.

[467riverfix]

Snyder is spot on! Chicago is nothing if not a city of Yuppies. Great idea for a bumper sticker: DON'T BECOME ANOTHER CHICAGO YUPPIE!

[Detroitnerd]

Hi, folks! It's me, Gov. Snyder:

I really want people to know that I'd love to see Detroit succeed. Really! I've traveled around the country and seen the way that traditional downtowns get gentrified. You guys in the suburbs might not realize this, but it's a bonanza! You can make a lot of money by getting well-educated artists to move in, followed by the professional classes. That way, we could stanch the flow of young professionals to other states that actually invest in their cities.

The only problem is, I am a Lansing Republican, working with a Republican legislature. And, frankly, as we well know, outstate Republicans' attitudes on majority-black cities are not very nuanced. They range from "nuke the hellhole" to "can't we turn them into prisons?"

And so, hamstrung by outstate yahoos, bound by an anti-Detroit constitution that enshrines home rule, my hands tied by a statewide constituency that would rather scream and yowl and fight than see a penny of their taxes go to anybody darker than a paper bag, I am going to have to do what I can.

I will pay lip service to the city of Detroit. I will make a plea that you do not leave for Los Angeles, Chicago, Philly, Pittsburgh, San Francisco, Houston or New York. I will tell you that I value urban environments as a way to retain skilled young professionals.

The only thing is, I simply cannot dedicate any funding or real political change to advance that agenda. Sorry. In fact, I will have to cut your revenue sharing so I can give money to the state's billionaires, then try to do a political balancing act while I send a czar in to take away your well-intentioned democracy and eviscerate the last unions in a traditional labor town.

I wish I could do more. Maybe I can. If, for instance, Detroit were to suddenly turn into a city with an ethnic Dutch, German or Finnish majority, then perhaps we could convince outstaters to offer change and funding. But until steps like these are taken, I am afraid I can offer little more than words.

But I do hope you like them!

Very sincerely,

Gov. Snyder

[Novine]

Did Snyder mention that if you're not straight, state government considers you a second-class citizen in Michigan?

[bailey]

Did Snyder mention that if you're not straight, state government considers you a second-class citizen in Michigan?

No, that must have completely slipped his mind..weird how that happens.

Although, it's not like Chicago is THAT much better on the whole basic equality issue. Illinois only got civil unions ...which, I suppose, is better than nothing at all... last year.

[canuck]

All those cities had their lows and pulled themselves up. Detroit can and is doing so too.

I like Chicago a lot and if I didn't like Detroit, all Detroit-Windsor, so much I would probably live there. What a great city.

My business can be done anywhere; I choose to do it here and have my business here. Why? I find the challenges here invigorating. All the cities above are defined, their power structures stable and locked-in. Detroit is like a pack of cards flipped in the air. We are undefined, our power structures are in flux and open. Our generation[s] has a unique opportunity to re-define what we are and what we can be.

I have often said that for many Detroit is lacking, even threatening, but for artists, planners, and thinkers, it is difficult to find a more exciting environment. If you thrive on challenge this is your town. If you don't and just want everything nice and perfect, then follow your heart, the other cities are for you.

So I think the governor is correct on this one - maybe it is the old Peace Corps volunteer in me. I would just like so see him followup by making the revitalization of our older core cities not just a sermon, but a passion. For starters, I would like see him support simply making those distressed areas as cheap to live in, in terms of insurance and taxation, as their surrounding metropolitan communities. I think a lot of people, young and old, would respond to that and endure the crime, beggary and lesser services if they weren't also financially penalized.

You hit it on the head Lowell. If we see some passion in projects that will rehabilitate Detroit's vitality because yes, it was once very active in all its parts, then the planners could get their field day. A major prescription from Snyder in my opinion would be to summon all regional leaders and sweeten their bitter pill by announcing a law that would create a metro government in a year's time.

A second prescription would entail the creation of regional boards for transit and education and civic services in need of consolidation.

Just a basic reshuffling of the power structure which as you say is undefined, and therefore prolongs the uncertainty in all the region would then give it a new agenda; a metropolitan agenda as it were. Short of these basic stuctural shanges, I dont know if any viable future can be gained for Detroit proper, and in extenso; any real powerhouse potential for the satellite cities.

I think Snyder will best promote Michigan by saving the metropolis; the major economic engine for the state.

[wolverine]

^ He can save the metropolis with Jobs.

While Illinois and Chicago share the national average in unemployment, the picture is much brighter for professional jobs. Students need a guarantee that they can join the work force right after graduation. For awhile there were many articles on how grads chose interesting places first over jobs. I think it's just employment as first priority now. Detroit needs to compete. More jobs more residents, more ancillary development.

Its as if Snyder is trying to sell a defective car that will take a lot of fixing. Cut the rhetoric and start doing. Build a transit system, construct more business incubutators, keep the street lights on at least

Most important, stop focusing on retaining residents. Most of my friends involved in planning organizations in Michigan are from the East and West coast. They bring fresh ideas and perspectives to the table. Chicago benefits from attracting international companies that create thousands of job openings each year and bring in more residents from out of state

[Bham1982]

NY, Chicago, D.C., Boston etc...these cities have the jobs, higher paying jobs and they're currently more livable than Detroit. Most importantly, they CATER to the young and successful. These college grads are not experiencing the hard aches that we hear about in Chicago or New York. Or what we experience on a daily basis living in Detroit. They live in nice clean, low crime, walkable neighborhoods. Lots of retail, bars, funky boutiques and ALL of their college friends are there too. These people already have a built-in support system when they move to Chicago and New York. They've been traveling to Chicago since they were a freshman in College and they're automatically expected to move there after graduation to be a part of the scene, along with their friends. Chicago is a hotbed for East Coast Grads as well. It's known as an affordable and exciting place to live. Best summer city in America.

This is what I'm referring to re. Chicago's reputation in Michigan. Folks overrate the city, as if they haven't been to other cities outside the Midwest.

IMO, the very fact that you're grouping Chicago with NYC shows that you're wildly overrating the city. In terms of urbanity, Chicago is at least as far from NYC as Detroit is from Chicago.

And no, Chicago isn't a major hotbed for anyone outside of the Midwest. The Coasts tend to be somewhat myopic, and they, unfortunately, consider Chicago and the Midwest to be Flyover Country.

Chicago, BTW, has very humid summers, worse than even here in SE Michigan. It has nice summers compared to, say, Houston, but to say it has the best summer climate or atmosphere is ridiculous.

I work in R.E relocation and I personally feel like 85% of all Michigan State grads move to Chicago...if not higher. Chicago has also surpassed New York for having the highest number of University of Michigan Graduates.

More of the Chicago exaggerations. This is exactly the stuff I'm talking about.

Michigan is, by far, the most popular state for UofM and MSU alums. It would be very difficult to find a state school anywhere in the U.S. where another state had more alums that the state where the institution is located.

For some graduate degrees, you are correct that Michigan isn't the #1 destination. New York, for example, is the biggest destination for Michigan Law grads. BUT, Michigan has, by far, more Michigan alums in total than anywhere else, even when you break it down by professional schools and the like.

And the sad part is many of these people convert once they move to another city. These people turn into Cubs fans, they marry their girlfriends/boyfriends and end up settling down in the city or a Chicago suburb. Rarely do they return back to Michigan at that point.

Again, more fiction. Where do you come up with this stuff? Please cite some sources for these claims.

Chicago [[city) has the second highest population loss in the nation, behind only Detroit. Chicagoland has positive population growth, but only because of exurban growth on the fringes. All the inner suburban and urban municipalities are declining.

[ProudMidwesterner]

I disagree that Chicago is overrated, and would in fact argue that on a national and international level, it is one of the most underrated cities. Sure, it's nowhere near as urban as New York, and is probably at the same level as Boston or San Francisco. But on an urban scale it has by far the second largest downtown in terms of size, office space, business, etc. in the country, and is a magnet for young people for good reason. Population density is in my opinion a good rough sketch of a city's "urbanity;" New York is way ahead at 26,000 people per square mile, and San Francisco is second at 16,000. Chicago is at 11,000, reflecting its less dense fabric than the coastal cities, but is still over twice the density of Detroit [[5200) or any comparable Midwest city, Minneapolis/St. Paul included.

Next to the coasts, it is a markedly different type of urbanity, but why exactly is one type of urban feel better than the other? I personally prefer the feel of Chicago and other Midwest cities to the East Coast cities, which have an overcrowded feel to me, and certainly to the mindless sprawl of the Sunbelt, L.A. included, which I could never live in.

Yet ask anyone on the coasts and the Midwest doesn't seem to exist, and to anyone overseas, the U.S. is the Northeast, L.A., San Francisco, and maybe Seattle. The Midwestern cities, Chicago the king among them, are the most underrated part of the country to me for the simple reason that they have virtually all the amenities of the coasts if you know where to look, but at a fraction of the cost. As well, a healthy Chicago is a crucial part of a healthy Midwest economy, critical to revitalizing Detroit, Cleveland, and the like. As much as I agree we need more young people staying in the Northern industrial cities, I don't see the need to rag Chicago as "overrated" for it.

As for the population losses, those harsh numbers did take a lot of people, myself included, by surprise since Chicago certainly feels healthier and more vibrant than ten years ago. If you look at the data, most of the loss is in poorer neighborhoods, and especially where the vast projects came down. The population loss is a sign of demographic change in Chicago, a wave of gentrification that I feel will ultimately leave a healthier, wealthier city. But that doesn't have much to do with Detroit now, does it?

[timmy43]

My post before wasn't sarcasm. I may have been not so clear and explained myself well. To clarify.

With shopping what is there in Chicago that the convenient and easy to get to as the Somerset Collection and other malls in the Detroit area? Chicago has no shopping that is different than Detroit's. Downtown Chicago the chain king, it is inconvenient and expensive to park and navigate. Where is the cool Rencen shopping center in Chicago? Chipotle here in Chicago, chains and a Walgreens is it.

Today I explored the neighborhoods in Chicago. Lincoln Park and Lakeview. Give me Midtown and Corktown with the dedicated friendly residents who are cool and open. Lincoln Park and Lakeview are vastly overrated, they are dull. The whole Northside is. Downtown Chicago has nothing on Detroit's downtown architecture. Sure there are more highrises in Chicago. I hope you like 1970's slab bland.

The rush of being on a crowded Woodward bus going downtown in Detroit most certainly beats the slum of a train and bus system that is the transit in Chicago. Where is Chicago's cheap, unique and convenient People Mover?

Chicago has no Dequindre Cut nor the cool vibrant River Walk.

Fox Theatre in Chicago. LOL. Chicago barely has a theatre district. It's on par with Toledo.

I am totally with Bham1982 on Chicago. It's nothing special and the huge population loss in this city is clearly evident.

Sorry Chicago you are way overrated and no wonder the coasts blow you out of the water.

[ProudMidwesterner]

My post before wasn't sarcasm. I may have been not so clear and explained myself well. To clarify.

With shopping what is there in Chicago that the convenient and easy to get to as the Somerset Collection and other malls in the Detroit area? Chicago has no shopping that is different than Detroit's. Downtown Chicago the chain king, it is inconvenient and expensive to park and navigate. Where is the cool Rencen shopping center in Chicago? Chipotle here in Chicago, chains and a Walgreens is it.

Today I explored the neighborhoods in Chicago. Lincoln Park and Lakeview. Give me Midtown and Corktown with the dedicated friendly residents who are cool and open. Lincoln Park and Lakeview are vastly overrated, they are dull. The whole Northside is. Downtown Chicago has nothing on Detroit's downtown architecture. Sure there are more highrises in Chicago. I hope you like 1970's slab bland.

The rush of being on a crowded Woodward bus going downtown in Detroit most certainly beats the slum of a train and bus system that is the transit in Chicago. Where is Chicago's cheap, unique and convenient People Mover?

Chicago has no Dequindre Cut nor the cool vibrant River Walk.

Fox Theatre in Chicago. LOL. Chicago barely has a theatre district. It's on par with Toledo.

I am totally with Bham1982 on Chicago. It's nothing special and the huge population loss in this city is clearly evident.

Sorry Chicago you are way overrated and no wonder the coasts blow you out of the water.

Whatever. There are valid criticisms of Chicago, but you're not hitting them. Keep being laughable.

[313WX]

Anyone who equates Chicago to Toledo shouldn't be taken seriously.

I regret that I gave him the benefit of the doubt on the last page.

[professorscott]

CNN report from a little over a year ago:

http://money.cnn.com/2010/10/01/pf/c...ties/index.htm

Talks about what metro areas have high percentages of college educated residents. Note it doesn't just cover a city but the entire metro. By their report Washington DC is the highest with 47.3% of adults age 25+ having college degrees, and San Francisco, San Jose, Raleigh and Boston round up the top 5 with over 40% having degrees.

Detroit is eighth worst, at 26.3%.

Jobs follow talent. This isn't 1960. We need to make the region a place where talent wants to be, and this means place-making. It's not difficult, we just have to get off our asses and stop pretending that factories will return and rehire everybody.

[corktownyuppie]

It's not difficult, we just have to get off our asses and stop pretending that factories will return and rehire everybody.

Raise your hand if you're waiting for the rise of the factory worker? Ok, all of you with your hands raised, please move to Ohio. Thanks.

[467riverfix]

Did Snyder mention that if you're not straight, state government considers you a second-class citizen in Michigan?

Only if you're not married.

[iheartthed]

Chicago is at 11,000, reflecting its less dense fabric than the coastal cities, but is still over twice the density of Detroit [[5200) or any comparable Midwest city, Minneapolis/St. Paul included.

The only coastal city that is structurally more dense than Chicago is New York. [[This is also true for Detroit: Detroit and Philadelphia have almost the exact same size in land area, and they peaked at similar populations which means they also peaked at similar population densities.) Population wise, Chicago is over twice the density of Detroit because Chicago didn't lose 65% of its peak population. Likewise, the coastal cities are denser than Chicago because Chicago has lost nearly 30% of its peak population.

Chicago city is actually similar in density as London. London is much less dense than New York, but about average for the other northeast major cities.

[ghettopalmetto]

We need to make the region a place where talent wants to be, and this means place-making. It's not difficult, we just have to get off our asses and stop pretending that factories will return and rehire everybody.

Also have to stop pretending that talent can--or wants to--live in a $250,000 house in the suburbs. More and different housing options would go a long way.

[illwill]

It’s very apparent that Timmy43 and Bham182 hate the city ofChicago. Their love for Detroit, like all of ours, runs deep, but they’re comments regarding Chicago actually come off as being jealous and delusional.

Just because we support Detroit doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t recognize that Chicago as being a successful world class urban city. Nobody ever said you had to like Chicago more than Detroit but admit it’s a destination city that people are flocking to like crazy. It’s only second to NYC in terms of density. That’s saying something.

I love Detroit more than Chicago or New York because Detroitis Detroit TO ME. There can NEVER be another city like Detroit. However, I’d belying if I didn’t think that we here in Detroit aren’t getting ideas from places like Chicago and every other successful big city, but with our own Detroit uniqueness. New York is the bar for American urban success and can never be duplicated but let’s face it, all American cities are aspiring to be as much like NYC [[but in their own unique way). The want for density, rail transit, vibrant walkable streets, boutiques, architecture etc…

I’m just saying, no need to hate fellas!