Snyder to begin process for Detroit emergency manager

[lilpup]

I don't think it makes that much of a difference in the sense that there can either be somewhat controlled chaos with a chance of a comeback with an EFM or complete uncontrolled chaos at the whim of the mob [[which will, indeed, involve to use of violence on many fronts).

[corktownyuppie]

Some may argue that the EM law is doing exactly what it should. Is it a coincidence that we've seen this train coming for a decade, but only under the threat of lost power are all of the forces in Detroit uniting to solve a problem?

Remember... "America will always do the right thing...but only after everything else fails." - Winston Churchill, commenting on the leadership of American politicians.

[English]

Well, we will only know in hindsight, but my guess is that the reason "most don't" is that there is nothing to see.

I don't agree with the "completely sold the United States down the river" idea, but I do believe that the Federal legislative process is not functional and largely controlled by people who don't have the general or long-term interest of the nation in mind. If there were a legitimate higher level of government that could come in and clean up the mess at the Federal level, I'd be pretty inclined to go for it.

Anyway, I am not someone who feels that the government of the city of Detroit is so responsive to the citizenry that removing some of its autonomy is really all that big an imposition.

We'll only know with time, mwilbert. I hope I'm being unnecessarily alarmist, that this will be a good thing for the CoD [[although I fail to see how), and that this isn't part of a larger agenda at the national level that is being played out in different municipalities and states. As I have been saying all day, this is one time when I'd absolutely love to be wrong.

For God's sake, let's hope that you're right.

[English]

Some may argue that the EM law is doing exactly what it should. Is it a coincidence that we've seen this train coming for a decade, but only under the threat of lost power are all of the forces in Detroit uniting to solve a problem?

Remember... "America will always do the right thing...but only after everything else fails." - Winston Churchill, commenting on the leadership of American politicians.

This evening, I heard from a couple of my professor friends in Wisconsin. People mired in the local context are shrugging and saying that it's about time something was done about Detroit. But nationally, some are reading it differently.

Anyway, perhaps this discussion is all an intellectual exercise, and Snyder's move, mere saber rattling. There's no way this stands up in court.

[mwilbert]

There's no way this stands up in court.

I do question whether the EFM statute is legitimate under the Michigan constitution. It will be interesting to see what happens if it is challenged. My general opinion is that ultimately the state has all the cards, home rule or no, but using the EFM as the instrument of control could be struck down.

[lilpup]

I do think the EFM law will hold up in court. Frankly, with a little tweaking, I think it's a necessary provision for maintaining long-term stability in the absence of enforced balanced budget amendments for every governmental body. Many in the rest of the country have NO CLUE what could come down the pipe because the vast majority don't pay attention until something hits them personally.


[["if you owe the bank $1,000 it’s your problem; if you owe the bank $1,000,000 it’s the bank’s problem")

[Schoolcraft]

I don't want to think about what would happen to President Obama if he created a law to send a nation appointed emergency financial manager to states in bad financial health...

[English]

I don't want to think about what would happen to President Obama if he created a law to send a nation appointed emergency financial manager to states in bad financial health...

But many feel that would be different... there seems to be little understanding about precedent.

[Crumbled_pavement]

This is sad, but necessary.

True.

I hope it leads to better things for the city.

Doubt it. Detroit is headed for further chaos no matter what happens. The last chance for Detroit to mount a real turnaround happened during Kilpatrick's administration. The city is too far gone now for anything or anyone to save it. Now it's just about the details of Detroit's final demise. The demise, however, is certain.

English, I doubt much negative will come out of Snyder's EFM. All I see is instead of local Detroit officials being able to rob the city blind, it'll be state officials robbing the city blind. Either way, the train off the cliff speeds up...

[professorscott]

I have mixed feelings about this.

On the one hand, Detroit is speeding over the cliff [[and actually may already have gone over, but thanks to Wile E. Coyote Syndrome, hasn't looked down so doesn't realize it yet).

On the other hand, Google the following: "Gesetz zur Behebung der Not von Volk und Reich". Also known as the "Enabling Act", it was the law of German Parliament [[passed by the required 2/3 majority) that essentially appointed the recently selected Chancellor of Germany, Adolf Hitler, to assume the extra role of [[let's just call it for fun) Emergency Manager.

Now, everybody howls and screams when you make a Hitler reference. [[Even after all these years, nobody and I mean NOfuckingbody names a child Adolf.) So I want to be very clear: nobody is actually Adolf Hitler in the Detroit scenario. The point of the second full paragraph of the post is, sometimes when you give somebody a little too much power, things don't go quite how you imagined.

[lilpup]

I don't want to think about what would happen to President Obama if he created a law to send a nation appointed emergency financial manager to states in bad financial health...

Wouldn't have to - the Feds ultimately control all the purse strings. [[Remember? Ford to NYC: "Drop Dead" - forced NYC to substantially clean up their act and get assistance from the State of New York and the private sector before getting any Federal assistance.) The States don't have that kind of control and can get dragged down by a wayward major city.

[Zacha341]

Compelling point. And for certain who ever the EFM is they will probably have a hefty signing bonus, with perks for themselves and their enterouge [[um, er - I mean assistants). No one uh 'works' for free when it comes to the D, right up to the last thinnest dime...

I don't see this. Appointing an EFM is just one incident in the long arc of the city's decline. Possibly, this could be an inflection point on the arc, but I wouldn't even count on that.

[Zacha341]

Yeah don't forget the 'ejector' seats on the train for the 'managers' who will be jettisoning for their own career and fiscal betterment.

...All I see is instead of local Detroit officials being able to rob the city blind, it'll be state officials robbing the city blind. Either way, the train off the cliff speeds up...

[Occurrence]

I like how Bing says "Detroit needs to be run by Detroiters"

Maybe not, because Detroiters can't seem to run Detroit, which is why they are in the mess they are now.

[English]

On the other hand, Google the following: "Gesetz zur Behebung der Not von Volk und Reich". Also known as the "Enabling Act", it was the law of German Parliament [[passed by the required 2/3 majority) that essentially appointed the recently selected Chancellor of Germany, Adolf Hitler, to assume the extra role of [[let's just call it for fun) Emergency Manager.

I thought about this, too, but then remembered Godwin's Law, and decided to refrain.

[mwilbert]

I would have the gravest doubts about appointing an Emergency Manager for the US, but an Emergency Manager for Detroit would most likely be prevented from creating extermination camps or invading Canada [[or Poland or Livonia) by the other layers of government.

I wouldn't want Hitler appointed as Detroit EFM [[although it might be kind of amusing) but there would be a pretty strict limit as to how much damage he could do in that post.

[Hermod]

I don't want to think about what would happen to President Obama if he created a law to send a nation appointed emergency financial manager to states in bad financial health...

I am not a lawyer, but I think that the US Constitution acknowledges the sovereignity of the states while the political subdivisions of a state [[counties, townships cities, and villages) are instrumentalities of the state.

[Hermod]

If my worst fears are true, they'll probably appoint a union-hating ideologue who wants to sell off and privatize everything and will leave the city in worse financial shape than ever.

Since the city has more employees now with 750,000 residents than it has with 1,800,000 residents, it is just possible the a "union dis-regarding" manager could achieve significant savings without privatization.

Most government entities could use a periodic clean sweep to eliminate decades of Parkinson's Law in full operation, nepotism, and buddyism and Detroit is really ripe for such a sweep.

.

[Dexlin]

Since we've already had literally a dozen threads on the philosophy of democracy, I'd like to ask something more tangential and immediate. How much do you think Bing is going to pay the EM? The mayor currently receives a salary of about $176,000 [[about $160,000 after the 10% give-back).

BTW, when I talking about how much Snyder would pay the EM, I really mean how much the city would, because cities are responsible for paying the salary of the EM and his or her staff. Little ole Flint will be paying Michael Brown $170,000 base salary. Louis Schimmel in decidedly smaller Pontiac is getting a salary from the city of $150,000, the same as previous EM Stampfler who was quite literally half-assing his job out of Kalamzoo and looking for jobs elsewhere while supposedly running the city. Joyce Parker down in even smaller Ecorse is getting $132,000. And Joe Harris is even, even smaller Benton Harbor is getting a sum of $132,000.

My guess is that whomever takes the job will be getting paid upwards of $200,000 out of the city coffers.

Lastly, anyone want to guess which city or school district will be next? At the end of the day, Snyder is only doing to Detroit would he did to Gateway. Get ready for the city's name to formally be changed to "Guangzhou Presents the City of Detroit!"

[Zacha341]

"Detroit needs to be run by Detroiters".... I noted the not so sublime irony there. For one that was rhetoric, he doesn't even believe that!! LOL!

Those days are so, soo over - we've had our turn and it has not worked out... sadly. Too many people were engaged in hook-ups, friends and fam deals, taking for themselves etc... fueled with the requisite "they steal too" justification! Well all things come to an end, and we're at the finish of all of that at least in the manner of how 'things' were done with the usual crowd.

And don't give me the 'stealing our jewels' argument. The run-away bold-faced corruption took care of that too. In comes the state.... and a repub at the helm too! Oh the horror of it all... and the persecution. Too much.... Argh!! ------

I like how Bing says "Detroit needs to be run by Detroiters"

Maybe not, because Detroiters can't seem to run Detroit, which is why they are in the mess they are now.

[bartock]

Since we've already had literally a dozen threads on the philosophy of democracy, I'd like to ask something more tangential and immediate. How much do you think Bing is going to pay the EM? The mayor currently receives a salary of about $176,000 [[about $160,000 after the 10% give-back).

BTW, when I talking about how much Snyder would pay the EM, I really mean how much the city would, because cities are responsible for paying the salary of the EM and his or her staff. Little ole Flint will be paying Michael Brown $170,000 base salary. Louis Schimmel in decidedly smaller Pontiac is getting a salary from the city of $150,000, the same as previous EM Stampfler who was quite literally half-assing his job out of Kalamzoo and looking for jobs elsewhere while supposedly running the city. Joyce Parker down in even smaller Ecorse is getting $132,000. And Joe Harris is even, even smaller Benton Harbor is getting a sum of $132,000.

My guess is that whomever takes the job will be getting paid upwards of $200,000 out of the city coffers.

Lastly, anyone want to guess which city or school district will be next? At the end of the day, Snyder is only doing to Detroit would he did to Gateway. Get ready for the city's name to formally be changed to "Guangzhou Presents the City of Detroit!"

$200,000 is nothing to pay in exchange for the power to bypass the politics, bypass the unions and virtually everything and everyone else in order to slash a couple hundred million from the city budget. I'm not taking sides, but that is the reality.

[bartock]

I thought about this, too, but then remembered Godwin's Law, and decided to refrain.

I find it hard to believe that someone else would have thought about that also, but perhaps you speak German. Regardless, I see absolutely no connection between the two and actually find the comparision outrageous to say the least.

[skyl4rk]

199,999.99

[bailey]

My guess is that whomever takes the job will be getting paid upwards of $200,000 out of the city coffers.

Wouldn't that be an enormous savings versus paying all of city council...their various attendants and lackeys... the mayor who...ooops, just plain forgot to tell the city he decided to start taking a salary after promising the voters he would not...and all the various and infinite parasites and hangers on that populate CAYMAC?

Heck, you could pay the EFM 5 o r 6 million and STILL have cut costs in that area by 90%.

[corktownyuppie]

Wouldn't that be an enormous savings versus paying all of city council...their various attendants and lackeys... the mayor who...ooops, just plain forgot to tell the city he decided to start taking a salary after promising the voters he would not...and all the various and infinite parasites and hangers on that populate CAYMAC?

Heck, you could pay the EFM 5 o r 6 million and STILL have cut costs in that area by 90%.

I think the EM/EFM would have to be paid $300-400k in order to be compensated for what they're going to have to go through. There's too many other easier ways to make $200k per year than unleashing the wrath of 700k Detroiters. You'd never find anyone qualified.

But yes, once you strip the council members of their salaries and their perks, it will essentially be cost neutral.

Detroit needs to slim its government to the size of a small Metro. Then it needs to slim its geographic footprint by 30-40% and stop paying infrastructural costs to the "dead zones". Then it needs to slim its pay structure to be competitive with the private sector and other municipalities. I dont think it will need to raise taxes, but it will likely need to invest some money to improve collection rates on existing property owners and wage earners. Bring back the residential requirement for all police and fire.

Gonna have to be a combination of cutting expenses, increasing revenues, rooting out corruption, and getting the most bang for every buck by making much-needed efficiency changes to every area of operations.

You're not gonna get that for 200k.