Racist letter to Cass Tech football coach goes national

**coracle** · December-02-11, 07:02 PM

My apologies for reducing the discussion to a banal level. I found the immediate allegations of racism by some contributors based on zero evidence to be expressing their own prejudices and to be nonsense in itself. If "the letter" is proved to be real and have racist intent then that is a different and serious matter.

**antongast** · December-02-11, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by coracle

My apologies for reducing the discussion to a banal level. I found the immediate allegations of racism by some contributors based on zero evidence to be expressing their own prejudices and to be nonsense in itself. If "the letter" is proved to be real and have racist intent then that is a different and serious matter.

Why does intent matter?

**Goose** · December-02-11, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by noise

The race of the author has absolutely no impact on whether or not the content of the letter is racist.

Yikes, as I continued to read, I was quickly appalled by the elementary understanding of racism on display here. Carry on, I suppose. It really is like the comments section of The Free Press here.

please, enlighten my ignorance on the subtleties of racism found in the letter, and when you explain, please use only the facts and no speculation......

my feeling is your the type of person that finds racism in any situation that is negative that affects a person of color......

**firstandten** · December-03-11, 02:28 AM

Originally Posted by Goose

please, enlighten my ignorance on the subtleties of racism found in the letter, and when you explain, please use only the facts and no speculation......

my feeling is your the type of person that finds racism in any situation that is negative that affects a person of color......

The letter may not have actual racist comments but the letter writer talked in code, tinged in stereotypical statements such as "ghetto warriors". The letter writer didn't understand or care to know about the history and mission of Cass Tech and the type of students that go there. Whether the letter was by definition racist is not the point, it was a degrading letter directed to a population of students [[mostly black) that was stupid and untrue.

lilpup · December-03-11, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by firstandten

Whether the letter was by definition racist is not the point

Um, yeah, it is the point because so many are proclaiming it is [[but that does not make it so). No one has defended the letter as accurate, laudable, informed, or otherwise not stupid.

**firstandten** · December-03-11, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by lilpup

Um, yeah, it is the point because so many are proclaiming it is [[but that does not make it so). No one has defended the letter as accurate, laudable, informed, or otherwise not stupid.

Of course the letter is racist, however you had some people on here get into a semantic argument about whether the letter writer came out and said black or said race, no they didn't because even the dumb ones talk in code.

My point is one needs to broaden their definition of the word. If someone knew about the type of kid that goes to CT and would write something dumb as that letter then the intent and context of the letter is racist, even if it doesn't hit peoples definition of the word racist.

**noise** · December-03-11, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by Goose

please, enlighten my ignorance on the subtleties of racism found in the letter, and when you explain, please use only the facts and no speculation......

my feeling is your the type of person that finds racism in any situation that is negative that affects a person of color......

I'm not exactly qualified or willing to discuss years of racial theory, internalized racism, and coded speech in a forum post, but I could assist you in researching said topics if you were truly interested in the scholarly pursuit.

Your feeling couldn't be further from the truth, but it's telling that you'd post that considering the blatant nature of the initial letter.

lilpup · December-03-11, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by firstandten

Of course the letter is racist, however you had some people on here get into a semantic argument about whether the letter writer came out and said black or said race, no they didn't because even the dumb ones talk in code.

My point is one needs to broaden their definition of the word. If someone knew about the type of kid that goes to CT and would write something dumb as that letter then the intent and context of the letter is racist, even if it doesn't hit peoples definition of the word racist.

I don't see the letter is racist and saying it is because of "code words" or other subjective hand-waving bullshit reflects on the reader, not the writer. The letter as written is anti-DPS but not racist.

Does intent matter? Yes, it does, in every aspect of life. [[This is a fundamental tenet of Buddhism, btw).

**Goose** · December-03-11, 03:04 PM

so if this letter is considered racist, than can we conclude that when blacks use the N-word amongst each other as being racist also? thats the only conclusion that I can come to... because that has to be the most racist type of language one can use....

im not arguing that the letter isn't ignorant, degrading, demeaning, insulating, and was written by an asshole... im just sick of the racism finger being pointed for any damn infraction that happens in the Detroit area......

lilpup · December-03-11, 03:17 PM

If this letter is considered racist then virtually any negativity expressed about the city or city institutions is racist, even if expressed by city residents.

**antongast** · December-03-11, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by lilpup

Does intent matter? Yes, it does, in every aspect of life. [[This is a fundamental tenet of Buddhism, btw).

So the answer to "why does intent matter?" is "because Buddhism?" Got it.

lilpup · December-03-11, 04:09 PM

Intent is "the state of mind with which an act is done" [[Merriam-Webster).

Intent is the difference between duplicitous action and honest action, the difference between "accident" and "on purpose," the difference between first degree murder and a lesser charge.

Intent is the letter writer's purpose and objective, not what others read into his writing.

**antongast** · December-03-11, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by lilpup

Intent is "the state of mind with which an act is done" [[Merriam-Webster).

Intent is the difference between duplicitous action and honest action, the difference between "accident" and "on purpose," the difference between first degree murder and a lesser charge.

Intent is the letter writer's purpose and objective, not what others read into his writing.

Yeah, but words have meanings, and damaging words have consequences. People are responsible for the damage done by their words regardless of intent. You can't just say a bunch of racist shit and then hide behind intent and say "well, since I don't consider myself a racist, all you people getting angry at me are just being oversensitive." It doesn't work like that.

lilpup · December-03-11, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by antongast

Yeah, but words have meanings, and damaging words have consequences. People are responsible for the damage done by their words regardless of intent. You can't just say a bunch of racist shit and then hide behind intent and say "well, since I don't consider myself a racist, all you people getting angry at me are just being oversensitive." It doesn't work like that.

What's YOUR intent?

**noise** · December-03-11, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by Goose

so if this letter is considered racist, than can we conclude that when blacks use the N-word amongst each other as being racist also? thats the only conclusion that I can come to... because that has to be the most racist type of language one can use....

Yes, of course.

**antongast** · December-04-11, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by lilpup

What's YOUR intent?

To kill some time in between other things I'm doing.

**De'troiter** · December-04-11, 11:08 AM

It is very easy for a non-black person to be oblivious to what a black person sees as racism. That being said, that letter was clearly racists, and with the history of racism in the country, it is of no surprise. Many people in this country did not see the racism of segregation either prior to the 1960s. Its takes education to notice the subleties of racism, and the majority of blacks have Honorary PHDs in that area.

**coracle** · December-04-11, 04:06 PM

Was it your intent to stereotype all non-black persons to be oblivious De'troiter or just the one you referred to? Maybe I'm seeing intent which is not really there.

**De'troiter** · December-04-11, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by coracle

Was it your intent to stereotype all non-black persons to be oblivious De'troiter or just the one you referred to? Maybe I'm seeing intent which is not really there.

I never said that all non-black people are oblivious, but I did say that it is easy for them to be oblivious, because they have not lived the "Black Exeperience." This same thing is true of blacks with other cultures, just as it would be easy for a black person to be oblivious to what a spanish, or chinese, or even a white person sees as racism. Thats just the way it is. If you haven't been apart of that culture, you can't fully relate to, or understand what offends that culture. I was not stereotyping, I was simply stating unfortunate facts of life. If every culture in this region understood or could relate to each other, this city would not be in the shape that it is in today; but instead of discussing the racial issues we just hush and move away from our problems.

lilpup · December-04-11, 07:10 PM

By the same token the offended culture takes offense only when leaping to conclusions about the intent of the other culture. People are posting that the letter is "obviously" racist yet when asked no one has spelled it out. And like it or not by definition racism is directed at race other than one's own.

**De'troiter** · December-04-11, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by lilpup

By the same token the offended culture takes offense only when leaping to conclusions about the intent of the other culture. People are posting that the letter is "obviously" racist yet when asked no one has spelled it out. And like it or not by definition racism is directed at race other than one's own.

It doesn't surprise me that you see nothing racist about the letter, you have a right to your opinion, and I am sure that alot of people share that same viewpoint. That being said, I will attempt to open your eyes because it seems that you are reading with them wide shut.

For instance, say that a person notices that they have a new mole on their skin. They look at the mole and think to themselves, "hey, its just a mole", but when the dermatologist looks at the mole they see skin cancer. What appears to be nothing but a harmless mole to the person, can quickly and accurately be seen as skin cancer to the dermatologist, because his eye has been trained to spot it. Just because something isn't overt, doesn't mean its not there, you just have to be trained and experienced to spot it. [[I am not trying to offend you)

Also, what if the situation was reversed, CC won, and CT lost. If CC would have got a letter that asserted that the students would go into adulthood being nothing more than "Hooded Knights" opposed to "Ghetto Warriors", signed by A Parent and Supporter of a Cass Tech Student, would you still not see the racism in that letter?

Ps. My purpose is not to offend anyone of this board, but lets not sugarcoat the issues.

**noise** · December-04-11, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by lilpup

By the same token the offended culture takes offense only when leaping to conclusions about the intent of the other culture. People are posting that the letter is "obviously" racist yet when asked no one has spelled it out. And like it or not by definition racism is directed at race other than one's own.

What are your qualifications? Ph.D. in what? And how do your qualifications negate the very real and accepted sociological/psychological view of internalized racism?

**firstandten** · December-04-11, 08:03 PM

To me this is the bottom line, somehow, someway we must get our DPS students to somewhere approaching what CT has done and is doing for its students.

From the Huffington Post

After all, there is so much to be proud of about Cass and our DPS students. Did you know Cass is a nationally recognized "School of Excellence? Out of 2,184 students, Cass celebrated 1,084 Technicians at last year's Honors Ceremony in May. The graduating senior class of 2011 earned more than $18 million in scholarships with 85% of the school's students receiving scholarships. The class of 2011 had a graduation rate of 97%. The school's four-year cohort grad rate for 2010 was more than 93 percent.
And Cass is a parent involvement powerhouse. At Cass' incoming 9th grade orientation, the school welcomed over 2,000 parents and students, including 300 students coming to DPS for the first time from private, charter and/or other school districts.

lilpup · December-04-11, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by noise

What are your qualifications? Ph.D. in what? And how do your qualifications negate the very real and accepted sociological/psychological view of internalized racism?

Homosexuality used to be in the DSM, too, but hey, even academics and mass media types have to earn paychecks.

**SlipperyPencil** · December-04-11, 11:15 PM

If the author is racist is irrelevant and claiming so in nothing more than a logical fallacy.

As lilpup & Group have stated, quit with the petty griping and refute the letter. Most every high school & college kid I know [[other than home schoolers) can't even write a coherent sentence. And many of these kids are coming from top rated schools. I know Detroit has higher drop out rates, higher illiteracy rates, higher crime rates, etc. I know Detroit has a lousy school system. As far as I know, everything stated in that letter could be true.

Way too often people cry racism instead of facing the facts. If the guys statistics are true, deal with it and quit trying to claim victim status. If not true, prove it and show the writer to be the fool he is.