Tower Defense/ Aerospace Factory Workers Party at Lunch

[Patrick]

The CCR mentions that it isn't a small business or 8a or even veteran-owned so they won't be getting any kind of advantage with regards to contract preferences.

Also know that the govt. can terminate just about any contact for convenience:
https://www.acquisition.gov/far/05-5...part 49_5.html

[FlyingJ]

The DoD will NOT be happy about convicted felons on the job, that's why "losing your security clearance" is a big deal[[I knew a few people who were well acquainted with "The Falcon & The Snowman" the entire family ended up f'd by that clown and yes, they were WHITE PEOPLE). All this "shoot the messenger" stuff is a bore, let's face it-Detroit invented "Monday & Friday cars".

[JBMcB]

Sales isn't easy. It sure as hell looks easy on the outside.

Outstanding rant

I've sat in on approximately three sales meetings. After the first four-hour long conference call, I thought I was going to shoot myself. If anyone can stand being in sales, more power to you. It's pretty damn far from being easy.

[Lowell]

Preach on Corktownyuppie. Preach on.

[kcwhite]

I certainly do appreciate a well thought out and intelligent point of view, a very well written post.

I happen to agree with you as I am also on the other side of the coin. I dont know how much evryone else lost as far as pay goes, over the last 3 years i have taken 3 pay cuts. I'm now at 65% of what I was making. While I haven't been put to the street yet, it has most definately been taxing on my family. [[wife, 2 kids) I have only recently seen the possibility of a raise. I know that as hard as this has hit me and mine, I'm sure that for those blue-collar guys this has been an absolute nightmare.

I am interested to see how [[or if)the country pulls out of this one.

They are almost certainly sales guys. I know, because I am one of them.

I've worked in the trades for a few years, and I've been on the wheeling and dealing side for more than a few. Let me tell you, having lived on both sides of it, I will say that we need to eliminate this myth that either of them is a cupcake.

Hourly labor isn't easy. You work your body, and it gets tired. The pay is not great. You're a slave to the boss. You have virtually no control over your income. On the flip side, you do your job and that's all you worry about. Sure, you might worry about whether Johnny is pulling his weight, but at the end of the day you don't have too much control either way, and no one really blames you for what everyone else does.

Sales isn't easy. It sure as hell looks easy on the outside. Client dinners, entertaining prospects, talking on your cell phone, having coffee at a coffee shop working from your laptop. Get on an airplane here and there. Do a presentation with a projector. Whiskey manhattans for lunch and dinner with a corporate spending account.

But remember a few things...most sales guys work commission only. You eat what you kill. Even for the ones that are on salary, that's like saying that a waitress works on salary. 80% of your income comes from the tips/commissions you generate. Depending on what you sell, you might make all your annual income based on 2-3 deals a year. Sounds easy, right? Well, that assumes you actually make those sales.

Guess what, you don't always make the sales.

And if you've been working for 7 months still waiting for a deal to close, you don't go home at 5pm and relax. It haunts you every day and every night wondering how you're going to pay your bills. And that's why 90% of salespeople quit in the first year.

Saying that making money in sales is easy work is like saying being a professional golfer is easy work. Tell that to the 20,000 guys who are trying to get on the PGA tour and working their ass off with nothing to show for it.

========

I hate Fox News. I think it appeals to the worst in people. It needlessly incites anger. It exploits ignorance and encourages ignorance.

Do I care what factory workers are doing at lunch? No. All I care about is quality workmanship. I'll let the company worry about whether or not to enforce what rules they need to on their employees. If people wanna down 3 ritalin and do a line of coke, I'll let the employers worry about whether it is or isn't affecting their work.

But I also hate the ignorance that comes from people who see guys in suits and ties at the bar at 3pm at TGIF thinking that their life is all fat cash and prostitutes, smoking Cuban cigars and big pimpin.

The sales arm of my company is hiring in Michigan. Hiring in droves. We lose 75% of our sales people in the first 2 years, and we have one of the best hiring/training records in the industry. We would love to hire another 200 successful salespeople, all who will earn $100k within 7 years and $250k+ within 15.

I know that a bunch of white collar criminals are screwing things up for everyone. I'm just as pissed at them as all of the union guys are. You think I stand up for the Kwame's and the Ficano's of the world?? Hell no. Or the bankers at MF Global that can't account for 20% of their client's assets?? or Bernie Madoff??? Or the guys at Goldman Sachs who packaged toxic debt and sold them as investments?

Of course not. These guys have made my life a living hell. Most people in mergers/acquisitions or commercial lending/corporate finance have taken 20-30% paycuts or more in 2008. The residential lending companies laid off over 50% of the loan officers in existence in 2008....they haven't gotten [[and won't be getting) those jobs back.

A company I work with based in Philly invited their entire salesforce into an emergency meeting, assigned half of them to one auditorium and half to the other. The announcements were: "Congrats, everyone in this room gets to keep their jobs." You can guess what the other announcement was.

=============

Look, I don't mean to rant. And I'll admit that I think the middle class and the blue collar employees are getting hit hardest by everything going on here. I'm actually very sympathetic to the experience, having grown up -- and choosing to live in -- a "union town".

But I wish that the factory guys of the world were informed enough to know that they aren't getting shit on while the rest of us are waking up every morning to our corporate-sponsored blow-jobs.

The cost of my healthcare has more than quadrupled in 10 years. I took a gigantic paycut in 2008, and it took me 3 years just to get back to where I was then. Thousands of us lost jobs, though it didn't make the headlines the way it does when Chrysler closes a factory.

And the only thing we have in common with Kwame and Ficano is that we all wear ties to work.

The problems that plague all of us are gigantic economic forces which go beyond their corruption. Over-leveraging, cheap borrowing, and a system that rewarded short-term thinking deluded us into making promises to everyone in every direction that couldn't be sustained. Combine that with productivity gains and a culture that spent more time protecting its employees instead of preparing them for new jobs, well the whole fucking thing burst.

Did you know when Social Security was first started, the retirement age was 65, but life expectancy was 59? Did you know that when they invented "30 years and out", that no one thought you would live ANOTHER 30 YEARS after retiring?

We're all getting f--ked right now, white collar and blue collar. The difference is that the white collar generally have a bigger cushion and so the middle class is hurting more. [[Going from 100k to 70k hurts a lot. But going from 30k to 12k puts you out in the street).

So you can be pissed at the guys who stole. I'm just as pissed. We just need to remember that all the corruption in the city and county -- even in the nation -- adds up to pennies and dimes compared to what happens when 500,000 people end up collecting a pension paycheck for 20 years longer than was originally planned for.

I know sometimes I'll take hell for representing the white collar point of view. But I generally vote Democrat, and my heart is with those who are getting pummeled by the economy right now. If my parents were of working age, this would be killing them.

I just request that people that the sources of our problems are bigger than "one guy who stole $150 million from the city or county". $150 million is just our shortfall in Detroit THIS YEAR. Even if that guy gave all his money back, all that would do is buy us 12 more months to figure out what's next. Sure, be angry at them. But let's keep our eye on the ball.

The real source of all of our economic suffering is:

- more money is going out than coming in
- the economic value of our work has dropped as our skills don't command the pay they used to.

How we solve this problem is up to us. But we need to quit wasting our time getting distracted so that we can fight the fight we have to face.

/endrant

[rjk]

Do I care what factory workers are doing at lunch? No. All I care about is quality workmanship. I'll let the company worry about whether or not to enforce what rules they need to on their employees. If people wanna down 3 ritalin and do a line of coke, I'll let the employers worry about whether it is or isn't affecting their work.

Let's say that some workers are doing some work on your house and you see them smoking pot and drinking beer in their trucks just before they start the job. I don't know about you, but if I witness that and it involved work on my house I'm calling the company and cancelling the contract. All I care about it quality workmanship also and I'll take guys who are sober versus guys who I have no idea how much alcohol they have in them.

The common thread between this story and the GM story is that they both involve taxpayer money.

[stasu1213]

I don't agree with the pot smoking and beer drinking while on their brea. One question that I would ask is; What was the quality of the products that were being manufactured at this plant. Were there any recalls or defective machinery such as parts falling off the airbus, humvees breaking down, vehicles being sent back? If there were no recalls I would say that at least these guys were still on their game while performing their duties. I believe that they should be counsoled and put on probation. It was reported that some of these guys had a criminal record. I would say that this ex-con was given another chance. Put them on probation and give them a chance to clean their act up. At least they were not caught drinking and smoking while operating the machinery.. We don't know what time of day or what shift they were on whien they were out there drinking and smoking. Some of them could had been off the clock for the rest of the day.

[coracle]

The Management that allow this state of affairs to carry on are as much to blame for the lack of sobriety on the job as the alcohol and drug users. First we need to investigate the people who placed the orders with this company and replace them; then develop an alternative supplier and move the contracts. [[or if you're a Liberal try to understand them, be fair and make allowances until something happens)
If the Management put a stop to the alcohol and drug use they will have a bunch of disgruntled workers on their hands that won't cooperate. They should be gone from these Contracts

[canuck]

I think the FOX bit is OK. The thing is now to give a face to whoever is in charge of personnel at the Tower plant. Maybe spend some time questioning the folks who should have enforced the rules before any of this happened. It is a shared responsibility, I cant imagine the managers not being aware of the situation. The Fox reporter could also tail the managers to their liquid lunch establishments if any there are.

[stasu1213]

The Management that allow this state of affairs to carry on are as much to blame for the lack of sobriety on the job as the alcohol and drug users. First we need to investigate the people who placed the orders with this company and replace them; then develop an alternative supplier and move the contracts. [[or if you're a Liberal try to understand them, be fair and make allowances until something happens)
If the Management put a stop to the alcohol and drug use they will have a bunch of disgruntled workers on their hands that won't cooperate. They should be gone from these Contracts

I agree but I would rather see these workers rehabilitated, counseled and put on probation than to see them out on the streets robbing and killing others. I do believe that these workers have a responsibility themselves to stay off drugs. I still say I would like to see a report on the quality of the products that were manufactured at this plant. That is what also counts.

[Roq]

I agree but I would rather see these workers rehabilitated, counseled and put on probation than to see them out on the streets robbing and killing others.

wut? I'm not sure I understand the logic that one is either drinking on the job at lunch or they're out committing murder upon their fellow citizens.

[Mikeg]

wut? I'm not sure I understand the logic that one is either drinking on the job at lunch or they're out committing murder upon their fellow citizens.

Stasu213 is trying to claim that if these guys lose their job instead of receiving some kind of rehab [[government spending), they are going to go on a crime spree.

That's the same kind of ill-logic that liberals always use when they claim that crime will increase unless the government can spend more in the hopes of reducing unemployment, hastening economic recovery, etc.

Here's a recent example: Joe Biden Warns Again: Rape, Murder Will Rise Without Jobs Bill
Here's the debunking of his claims about crime rates in Flint, MI: Biden’s Whopper in Flint, Mich.

“Everyone is entitled to their own opinion — but not their own facts.” - the late US Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan

[muskie1]

I think the FOX bit is OK. The thing is now to give a face to whoever is in charge of personnel at the Tower plant. Maybe spend some time questioning the folks who should have enforced the rules before any of this happened. It is a shared responsibility, I cant imagine the managers not being aware of the situation. The Fox reporter could also tail the managers to their liquid lunch establishments if any there are.

I agree about watching management also. The thing about the report is that the employees have clearly shown they do not value their jobs or have any respect for what they do by being so open in their usage. Every person who has a job has the responsibility to be a spokesperson for the company they work for. Fire them all.

[Zacha341]

Yeah, that's a short throw from freedom/ demand for dopin' and drinkin' on the job OR "I come and kill you"! DAMN!!!! WTF!! [[got me cursing....) LOL!

There's so much wrong with that perspective on so many levels, including a defacto condescending one. Hell! Are we under seige yet?

Makes me glad to NOT BE AN EMPLOYER!

wut? I'm not sure I understand the logic that one is either drinking on the job at lunch or they're out committing murder upon their fellow citizens.

[Zacha341]

For certain there are employees on the globe [[and in the city) who can work a full shift without totin' and drinking on the job. I suppose....

More manufacturing companies and others are just going to put the hammer down further behind this withstanding what 'liquid' lunches their management peeps enjoy...

Many companies drug test [[at the hair strand level - which is hard to forge).

And they do it randomly. Hell, there are some companies that want to nicotine test their employees!

I agree about watching management also. The thing about the report is that the employees have clearly shown they do not value their jobs or have any respect for what they do by being so open in their usage. Every person who has a job has the responsibility to be a spokesperson for the company they work for. Fire them all.

[Zacha341]

Well whatever logic it is or where it is coming [[left or right) it ain't sustainable and the end game will be in affect.

You can't bargain for and fully cultivate social expectations for civility solely on these terms. It does not work.

....That's the same kind of ill-logic that liberals always use when they claim that crime will increase unless the government can spend more in the hopes of reducing unemployment, hastening economic recovery, etc.

Here's a recent example: Joe Biden Warns Again: Rape, Murder Will Rise Without Jobs Bill
Here's the debunking of his claims about crime rates in Flint, MI: Biden’s Whopper in Flint, Mich.

“Everyone is entitled to their own opinion — but not their own facts.” - the late US Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan

[antongast]

Every person who has a job has the responsibility to be a spokesperson for the company they work for.

What? No. Fuck that shit. The company needs workers to put their products together, and the employees need a paycheck. That's all there is to it. The employees aren't married to the goddamn company just because they work there.

[Roq]

What? No. Fuck that shit. The company needs workers to put their products together, and the employees need a paycheck. That's all there is to it. The employees aren't married to the goddamn company just because they work there.

Amen. I'm tired of this notion that as an employee, I need to get on my knees and kiss nutsack every day because I'm so lucky to be employed and that the company can dictate what I do every waking hour.

Fuck that.

[Ravine]

I think the shithead from Fox2 is begging for an ass-kicking and probably should watch his back.

It's the responsibility of that company to produce quality parts. That means having some quality-control procedures in place. If the company turns out, and sells, shoddy merchandise that results in someone's safety being at hazard, that's the company's fault; no lawsuit will be filed against the blunt-smoking lunchers.
The company knows that, so if they don't care to watch out for the guys getting wasted on their breaks, that's their problem, not mine, and I'm sick and goddam tired of shit-stirrers such as Wolchek sticking their noses into other folks' affairs and then expecting us to join him in a collective gasp of horror and indignation.
If he wants to follow people around and Fox2 wants to pay him to act as some kind of TV-News organ-grinder, that's their choice, but I'm not going to be his monkey. I've got plenty enough, of my own concern, to fret about without vibrating into a breathless, overwrought cold sweat over what some guys are doing during their fuckin' lunch, and I'm not going to become hysterical just because a jackass such as Wolchek thinks it's time for us to get mad as hell and not take it anymore.
I think it's none of his business, none of your business, and none of my business.

[beachboy]

Nope, it's all about cracking down on workers.
Allow me to reiterate: Fuck Fox.

Amen!! If the workers wanna enjoy buds & batu, more power to 'em!! They're on lunch break. It's their right as citizens to do as they wish away from company property. If they want to risk arrest for druggin', that's their business. Who in that neighborhood enforces drug laws ennyway?

BTW, Detroitnerd is right - Fucksnooze pits one class of people against another, instills fear, fosters conflict, wears down resistance, degrades our sense of freedom, destroys our communities. Change the channel!!

[Roq]

They are almost certainly sales guys. I know, because I am one of them.
[Rest of excellent post snipped]

Kudos on an excellent post btw and I completely agree with everything you wrote. I work in a white collar corporate environment and believe me, there are days I just wish I could be a mindless drone instead of having 5 immediate crises to deal with at any given moment.

[Jimaz]

If the reporter had captured film of an employee staggering back to his workplace then that alone would have made his case.

Yet the reporter failed to achieve that level of evidence before calling it quits.

Has anyone else ever seen this kind of news coverage outside of Michigan? I haven't. Does this style of coverage, if unique to Michigan, exist primarily because of an opposition to the historic Michigan labor movement?

Sincerely.

[Bigb23]

I'm getting sick and tired of the on slam on the UAW. You make us out to be the devil. We are not the devil, but just people like you. Down your street. Live with it.

[coracle]

What? No. Fuck that shit. The company needs workers to put their products together, and the employees need a paycheck. That's all there is to it. The employees aren't married to the goddamn company just because they work there.

An "In your dreams" want ad. for some posters. Assuming some of them will rise to the top through attrition and want to fill their vacated positions.

WANTED. Workers to put our products together. Must want a paycheck. Must have a "fuck that shit" attitude to the Company and be prepared to consume alcohol and drugs during lunch breaks. Be prepared to show proof of previous positions in goddam Companies you didn't fully work for. Top rates paid to most truculent assemblers. Nutsack kissers need not apply. That's all there is to it. Get your fucking applications in.

[rjk]

The most alarming thing to me is that with the high unemployment rate that this state has these are the best employees this company could find? Aside from the stupidity of drinking and smoking pot out in the open at the party store the ones that opened their mouths in front of the camera came across as idiots. God help the people that didn't make the cut and were turned down for these jobs.

I'm sure this guy from Fox 2 didn't just come across these people by accident. Some employee of this company probably tipped him off to what was going on. How would you like to work at this place and know that the guy who drives the hi-lo spends his break time drinking alcohol and/or taking drugs?