Tower Defense/ Aerospace Factory Workers Party at Lunch

[Gannon]

Just don't buy an armored vehicle made on a Monday or Friday.

That was the rule with Detoit Iron for decades.


This seems more an attempt to change a tiger's stripes, AFAIC.


Cheers!

[Zacha341]

What happens Tuesday thru Thursday? Drinking luke warm coffee with burgers? LOL!

Just don't buy an armored vehicle made on a Monday or Friday.

That was the rule with Detoit Iron for decades.


This seems more an attempt to change a tiger's stripes, AFAIC.


Cheers!

[Detroitnerd]

Ha. Yeah. And pay no attention to those cocksucking, criminal bankers using your tax money to throw a fuckin' party in the Bahamas after crashing the economy. More anti-worker propaganda. Fuck you, Fox.

[corktownyuppie]

Ha. Yeah. And pay no attention to those cocksucking, criminal bankers using your tax money to throw a fuckin' party in the Bahamas after crashing the economy

Um...that's not exactly how banking works.

[Detroitnerd]

Um...that's not exactly how banking works.

Sorry, corktown. You know I'm talking about the large investment banks, the ratings agencies and the 'too-big-to-fail' investment services firms who crashed the economy, not bankers who play by the rules...

[Zacha341]

Ummm, forget Fox in the larger picture of this. The criminal bankers and the folks drinking and goofing off during work hours NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED! It need not be an 'either/ or' prospect!

These workers stuff was WIDE OPEN - they were 'sitting' [[or shall we say fence leaning) ducks waiting for an expose! This was too easy... what where they thinking? Perhaps if PBS would have covered the issue it would be better?

I DO NOT endorse the drinking and smoking on the job, but what ever happened to being on the down-low with your stuff if you're so inclined to do it on the job.

One of their 'puff-puff-give' friends probably dropped the dime!

Ha. Yeah. And pay no attention to those cocksucking, criminal bankers using your tax money to throw a fuckin' party in the Bahamas after crashing the economy. More anti-worker propaganda. Fuck you, Fox.

[Detroitnerd]

Ummm, forget Fox in the larger picture of this. The criminal bankers and the folks drinking and goofing off during work hours NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED! It need not be an 'either' or. ''

These workers where 'sitting' ducks waiting for an expose. Perhaps if PBS would have covered the issue it would be better?

I DO NOT endorse the drinking and smoking on the job, but what ever happened to being on the down-low with your stuff if you're so inclined to do it on the job. Dummies!

One of their 'puff-puff-give' friends probably dropped the dime!

Yeah, but you know Fox would never, ever, in a million-billion years take the criminal bankers to task for ANYTHING. Nope, it's all about cracking down on workers.

Allow me to reiterate: Fuck Fox.

[Zacha341]

I hear you... but if YOU as a worker know that why expose yourself so DAMN blatantly???!!!

The cameras did not come into the building, over cubicles, or behind forklifts, and what not. This was in plain VIEW! Sorta nervy and BOLD! Sorta dumb. This was bound to get out.

Now that company gonna let those folk go and enforce stricter rules, probably to the level that no one will be able to smoke a cigarette within a mile of the place and you get only a fraction of a hour lunch to boot!

And if you already had a felony record [[per the news cast) why would you risk loosing a hard to find job on recreation during the job?

Yeah, but you know Fox would never, ever, in a million-billion years take the criminal bankers to task for ANYTHING. Nope, it's all about cracking down on workers.

Allow me to reiterate: Fuck Fox.

[Detroitnerd]

I hear you... but if YOU as a worker know that why expose yourself so DAMN blatantly???!!!

The cameras did not come into the building, over cubicles, or behind forklifts, and what not. This was in plain VIEW! Sorta nervy and BOLD! Sorta dumb. This was bound to get out.

Now that company gonna let those folk go and enforce stricter rules, probably to the level that no one will be able to smoke a cigarette within a mile of the place and you get only a fraction of a hour lunch to boot!

And if you already had a felony record [[per the news cast) why would you risk loosing a hard to find job on recreation during the job?

I'm not saying these guys are geniuses, of course. Just pointing to the double-standard. The double-standard that is squeezing every one of us to the brink of bankruptcy. The one that is impoverishing local, state and federal government and enriching white-collar criminals. Oh, well -- might as well go after the workers again. 'Twill distract from the ongoing disaster...

[beachboy]

Nope, it's all about cracking down on workers.
Allow me to reiterate: Fuck Fox.

Amen!! If the workers wanna enjoy buds & batu, more power to 'em!! They're on lunch break. It's their right as citizens to do as they wish away from company property. If they want to risk arrest for druggin', that's their business. Who in that neighborhood enforces drug laws ennyway?

BTW, Detroitnerd is right - Fucksnooze pits one class of people against another, instills fear, fosters conflict, wears down resistance, degrades our sense of freedom, destroys our communities. Change the channel!!

[detroitsgwenivere]

Ha. Yeah. And pay no attention to those cocksucking, criminal bankers using your tax money to throw a fuckin' party in the Bahamas after crashing the economy. More anti-worker propaganda. Fuck you, Fox.

yeah.....YEAH.

I think it's hilarious that such pious individuals are willing to crucify joe-luchbox for hittin a blunt at lunch, while every sportsbar and TGIF in town is filled to the brim from noon till ? with "happyhour management". I've never seen FOX2 casing one of those joints.

Double-standards are a bitch.

[JBMcB]

I think it's hilarious that such pious individuals are willing to crucify joe-luchbox for hittin a blunt at lunch, while every sportsbar and TGIF in town is filled to the brim from noon till ? with "happyhour management".Double-standards are a bitch.

You do realize there's a difference between workers running heavy industrial equipment and workers who drive desks all day, right? If management requires their workers to not drink on company time, then they should hold to that rule as well, but not all workplaces have, or need, those rules.

By the way, most of the "happy hour management" people you see at TGIF at 3PM are probably sales guys. One company I worked for - the sales guys would be gone all afternoon, either golfing or taking clients out to the bar. Seems unfair, but they'd haul in multiple seven-figure deals a year, so it's hard to complain, it's just part of their job.

[corktownyuppie]

By the way, most of the "happy hour management" people you see at TGIF at 3PM are probably sales guys. One company I worked for - the sales guys would be gone all afternoon, either golfing or taking clients out to the bar. Seems unfair, but they'd haul in multiple seven-figure deals a year, so it's hard to complain, it's just part of their job.

They are almost certainly sales guys. I know, because I am one of them.

I've worked in the trades for a few years, and I've been on the wheeling and dealing side for more than a few. Let me tell you, having lived on both sides of it, I will say that we need to eliminate this myth that either of them is a cupcake.

Hourly labor isn't easy. You work your body, and it gets tired. The pay is not great. You're a slave to the boss. You have virtually no control over your income. On the flip side, you do your job and that's all you worry about. Sure, you might worry about whether Johnny is pulling his weight, but at the end of the day you don't have too much control either way, and no one really blames you for what everyone else does.

Sales isn't easy. It sure as hell looks easy on the outside. Client dinners, entertaining prospects, talking on your cell phone, having coffee at a coffee shop working from your laptop. Get on an airplane here and there. Do a presentation with a projector. Whiskey manhattans for lunch and dinner with a corporate spending account.

But remember a few things...most sales guys work commission only. You eat what you kill. Even for the ones that are on salary, that's like saying that a waitress works on salary. 80% of your income comes from the tips/commissions you generate. Depending on what you sell, you might make all your annual income based on 2-3 deals a year. Sounds easy, right? Well, that assumes you actually make those sales.

Guess what, you don't always make the sales.

And if you've been working for 7 months still waiting for a deal to close, you don't go home at 5pm and relax. It haunts you every day and every night wondering how you're going to pay your bills. And that's why 90% of salespeople quit in the first year.

Saying that making money in sales is easy work is like saying being a professional golfer is easy work. Tell that to the 20,000 guys who are trying to get on the PGA tour and working their ass off with nothing to show for it.

========

I hate Fox News. I think it appeals to the worst in people. It needlessly incites anger. It exploits ignorance and encourages ignorance.

Do I care what factory workers are doing at lunch? No. All I care about is quality workmanship. I'll let the company worry about whether or not to enforce what rules they need to on their employees. If people wanna down 3 ritalin and do a line of coke, I'll let the employers worry about whether it is or isn't affecting their work.

But I also hate the ignorance that comes from people who see guys in suits and ties at the bar at 3pm at TGIF thinking that their life is all fat cash and prostitutes, smoking Cuban cigars and big pimpin.

The sales arm of my company is hiring in Michigan. Hiring in droves. We lose 75% of our sales people in the first 2 years, and we have one of the best hiring/training records in the industry. We would love to hire another 200 successful salespeople, all who will earn $100k within 7 years and $250k+ within 15.

I know that a bunch of white collar criminals are screwing things up for everyone. I'm just as pissed at them as all of the union guys are. You think I stand up for the Kwame's and the Ficano's of the world?? Hell no. Or the bankers at MF Global that can't account for 20% of their client's assets?? or Bernie Madoff??? Or the guys at Goldman Sachs who packaged toxic debt and sold them as investments?

Of course not. These guys have made my life a living hell. Most people in mergers/acquisitions or commercial lending/corporate finance have taken 20-30% paycuts or more in 2008. The residential lending companies laid off over 50% of the loan officers in existence in 2008....they haven't gotten [[and won't be getting) those jobs back.

A company I work with based in Philly invited their entire salesforce into an emergency meeting, assigned half of them to one auditorium and half to the other. The announcements were: "Congrats, everyone in this room gets to keep their jobs." You can guess what the other announcement was.

=============

Look, I don't mean to rant. And I'll admit that I think the middle class and the blue collar employees are getting hit hardest by everything going on here. I'm actually very sympathetic to the experience, having grown up -- and choosing to live in -- a "union town".

But I wish that the factory guys of the world were informed enough to know that they aren't getting shit on while the rest of us are waking up every morning to our corporate-sponsored blow-jobs.

The cost of my healthcare has more than quadrupled in 10 years. I took a gigantic paycut in 2008, and it took me 3 years just to get back to where I was then. Thousands of us lost jobs, though it didn't make the headlines the way it does when Chrysler closes a factory.

And the only thing we have in common with Kwame and Ficano is that we all wear ties to work.

The problems that plague all of us are gigantic economic forces which go beyond their corruption. Over-leveraging, cheap borrowing, and a system that rewarded short-term thinking deluded us into making promises to everyone in every direction that couldn't be sustained. Combine that with productivity gains and a culture that spent more time protecting its employees instead of preparing them for new jobs, well the whole fucking thing burst.

Did you know when Social Security was first started, the retirement age was 65, but life expectancy was 59? Did you know that when they invented "30 years and out", that no one thought you would live ANOTHER 30 YEARS after retiring?

We're all getting f--ked right now, white collar and blue collar. The difference is that the white collar generally have a bigger cushion and so the middle class is hurting more. [[Going from 100k to 70k hurts a lot. But going from 30k to 12k puts you out in the street).

So you can be pissed at the guys who stole. I'm just as pissed. We just need to remember that all the corruption in the city and county -- even in the nation -- adds up to pennies and dimes compared to what happens when 500,000 people end up collecting a pension paycheck for 20 years longer than was originally planned for.

I know sometimes I'll take hell for representing the white collar point of view. But I generally vote Democrat, and my heart is with those who are getting pummeled by the economy right now. If my parents were of working age, this would be killing them.

I just request that people that the sources of our problems are bigger than "one guy who stole $150 million from the city or county". $150 million is just our shortfall in Detroit THIS YEAR. Even if that guy gave all his money back, all that would do is buy us 12 more months to figure out what's next. Sure, be angry at them. But let's keep our eye on the ball.

The real source of all of our economic suffering is:

- more money is going out than coming in
- the economic value of our work has dropped as our skills don't command the pay they used to.

How we solve this problem is up to us. But we need to quit wasting our time getting distracted so that we can fight the fight we have to face.

/endrant

[corktownyuppie]

...also two overseas wars did not help our situation.

[JBMcB]

Sales isn't easy. It sure as hell looks easy on the outside.

Outstanding rant

I've sat in on approximately three sales meetings. After the first four-hour long conference call, I thought I was going to shoot myself. If anyone can stand being in sales, more power to you. It's pretty damn far from being easy.

[kcwhite]

I certainly do appreciate a well thought out and intelligent point of view, a very well written post.

I happen to agree with you as I am also on the other side of the coin. I dont know how much evryone else lost as far as pay goes, over the last 3 years i have taken 3 pay cuts. I'm now at 65% of what I was making. While I haven't been put to the street yet, it has most definately been taxing on my family. [[wife, 2 kids) I have only recently seen the possibility of a raise. I know that as hard as this has hit me and mine, I'm sure that for those blue-collar guys this has been an absolute nightmare.

I am interested to see how [[or if)the country pulls out of this one.

They are almost certainly sales guys. I know, because I am one of them.

I've worked in the trades for a few years, and I've been on the wheeling and dealing side for more than a few. Let me tell you, having lived on both sides of it, I will say that we need to eliminate this myth that either of them is a cupcake.

Hourly labor isn't easy. You work your body, and it gets tired. The pay is not great. You're a slave to the boss. You have virtually no control over your income. On the flip side, you do your job and that's all you worry about. Sure, you might worry about whether Johnny is pulling his weight, but at the end of the day you don't have too much control either way, and no one really blames you for what everyone else does.

Sales isn't easy. It sure as hell looks easy on the outside. Client dinners, entertaining prospects, talking on your cell phone, having coffee at a coffee shop working from your laptop. Get on an airplane here and there. Do a presentation with a projector. Whiskey manhattans for lunch and dinner with a corporate spending account.

But remember a few things...most sales guys work commission only. You eat what you kill. Even for the ones that are on salary, that's like saying that a waitress works on salary. 80% of your income comes from the tips/commissions you generate. Depending on what you sell, you might make all your annual income based on 2-3 deals a year. Sounds easy, right? Well, that assumes you actually make those sales.

Guess what, you don't always make the sales.

And if you've been working for 7 months still waiting for a deal to close, you don't go home at 5pm and relax. It haunts you every day and every night wondering how you're going to pay your bills. And that's why 90% of salespeople quit in the first year.

Saying that making money in sales is easy work is like saying being a professional golfer is easy work. Tell that to the 20,000 guys who are trying to get on the PGA tour and working their ass off with nothing to show for it.

========

I hate Fox News. I think it appeals to the worst in people. It needlessly incites anger. It exploits ignorance and encourages ignorance.

Do I care what factory workers are doing at lunch? No. All I care about is quality workmanship. I'll let the company worry about whether or not to enforce what rules they need to on their employees. If people wanna down 3 ritalin and do a line of coke, I'll let the employers worry about whether it is or isn't affecting their work.

But I also hate the ignorance that comes from people who see guys in suits and ties at the bar at 3pm at TGIF thinking that their life is all fat cash and prostitutes, smoking Cuban cigars and big pimpin.

The sales arm of my company is hiring in Michigan. Hiring in droves. We lose 75% of our sales people in the first 2 years, and we have one of the best hiring/training records in the industry. We would love to hire another 200 successful salespeople, all who will earn $100k within 7 years and $250k+ within 15.

I know that a bunch of white collar criminals are screwing things up for everyone. I'm just as pissed at them as all of the union guys are. You think I stand up for the Kwame's and the Ficano's of the world?? Hell no. Or the bankers at MF Global that can't account for 20% of their client's assets?? or Bernie Madoff??? Or the guys at Goldman Sachs who packaged toxic debt and sold them as investments?

Of course not. These guys have made my life a living hell. Most people in mergers/acquisitions or commercial lending/corporate finance have taken 20-30% paycuts or more in 2008. The residential lending companies laid off over 50% of the loan officers in existence in 2008....they haven't gotten [[and won't be getting) those jobs back.

A company I work with based in Philly invited their entire salesforce into an emergency meeting, assigned half of them to one auditorium and half to the other. The announcements were: "Congrats, everyone in this room gets to keep their jobs." You can guess what the other announcement was.

=============

Look, I don't mean to rant. And I'll admit that I think the middle class and the blue collar employees are getting hit hardest by everything going on here. I'm actually very sympathetic to the experience, having grown up -- and choosing to live in -- a "union town".

But I wish that the factory guys of the world were informed enough to know that they aren't getting shit on while the rest of us are waking up every morning to our corporate-sponsored blow-jobs.

The cost of my healthcare has more than quadrupled in 10 years. I took a gigantic paycut in 2008, and it took me 3 years just to get back to where I was then. Thousands of us lost jobs, though it didn't make the headlines the way it does when Chrysler closes a factory.

And the only thing we have in common with Kwame and Ficano is that we all wear ties to work.

The problems that plague all of us are gigantic economic forces which go beyond their corruption. Over-leveraging, cheap borrowing, and a system that rewarded short-term thinking deluded us into making promises to everyone in every direction that couldn't be sustained. Combine that with productivity gains and a culture that spent more time protecting its employees instead of preparing them for new jobs, well the whole fucking thing burst.

Did you know when Social Security was first started, the retirement age was 65, but life expectancy was 59? Did you know that when they invented "30 years and out", that no one thought you would live ANOTHER 30 YEARS after retiring?

We're all getting f--ked right now, white collar and blue collar. The difference is that the white collar generally have a bigger cushion and so the middle class is hurting more. [[Going from 100k to 70k hurts a lot. But going from 30k to 12k puts you out in the street).

So you can be pissed at the guys who stole. I'm just as pissed. We just need to remember that all the corruption in the city and county -- even in the nation -- adds up to pennies and dimes compared to what happens when 500,000 people end up collecting a pension paycheck for 20 years longer than was originally planned for.

I know sometimes I'll take hell for representing the white collar point of view. But I generally vote Democrat, and my heart is with those who are getting pummeled by the economy right now. If my parents were of working age, this would be killing them.

I just request that people that the sources of our problems are bigger than "one guy who stole $150 million from the city or county". $150 million is just our shortfall in Detroit THIS YEAR. Even if that guy gave all his money back, all that would do is buy us 12 more months to figure out what's next. Sure, be angry at them. But let's keep our eye on the ball.

The real source of all of our economic suffering is:

- more money is going out than coming in
- the economic value of our work has dropped as our skills don't command the pay they used to.

How we solve this problem is up to us. But we need to quit wasting our time getting distracted so that we can fight the fight we have to face.

/endrant

[rjk]

Do I care what factory workers are doing at lunch? No. All I care about is quality workmanship. I'll let the company worry about whether or not to enforce what rules they need to on their employees. If people wanna down 3 ritalin and do a line of coke, I'll let the employers worry about whether it is or isn't affecting their work.

Let's say that some workers are doing some work on your house and you see them smoking pot and drinking beer in their trucks just before they start the job. I don't know about you, but if I witness that and it involved work on my house I'm calling the company and cancelling the contract. All I care about it quality workmanship also and I'll take guys who are sober versus guys who I have no idea how much alcohol they have in them.

The common thread between this story and the GM story is that they both involve taxpayer money.

[Roq]

They are almost certainly sales guys. I know, because I am one of them.
[Rest of excellent post snipped]

Kudos on an excellent post btw and I completely agree with everything you wrote. I work in a white collar corporate environment and believe me, there are days I just wish I could be a mindless drone instead of having 5 immediate crises to deal with at any given moment.

[j to the jeremy]

yeah.....YEAH.

I think it's hilarious that such pious individuals are willing to crucify joe-luchbox for hittin a blunt at lunch, while every sportsbar and TGIF in town is filled to the brim from noon till ? with "happyhour management". I've never seen FOX2 casing one of those joints.

Double-standards are a bitch.

damn straight

[rjlj]

Riiiiiight, and those were S.A.G. hired actors in that story.

Ha. Yeah. And pay no attention to those cocksucking, criminal bankers using your tax money to throw a fuckin' party in the Bahamas after crashing the economy. More anti-worker propaganda. Fuck you, Fox.

[Mark Smiles]

Ha. Yeah. And pay no attention to those cocksucking, criminal bankers using your tax money to throw a fuckin' party in the Bahamas after crashing the economy. More anti-worker propaganda. Fuck you, Fox.

Who cares about the couple who tied the 80 year old woman's hands behind her back and slit her throat? After all Stalin killed millions, just killing one is no biggie, right?

I think every case should be judged on it's own merits, we just happen to disagree.

[rjk]

A few years ago I was told that the employees of US Steel couldn't leave the building/property for lunch because of insurance reasons. The owner of Kovac's bar said it killed his buisness.

If these workers want everything that's accorded to them in their union contract if they get injured on the job they should also abide by the part of the contract that states that drinking and smoking pot isn't allowed.

[13074Glenfield]

Ha. Yeah. And pay no attention to those cocksucking, criminal bankers using your tax money to throw a fuckin' party in the Bahamas after crashing the economy.

Was there some big party in the Bahamas?

[bailey]

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd
Ha. Yeah. And pay no attention to those cocksucking, criminal bankers using your tax money to throw a fuckin' party in the Bahamas after crashing the economy.
Was there some big party in the Bahamas?

Nice to see the casual homophobia still going strong around here. Cocksuckers? really?

unless, of course, someone can tell me what else we're supposed to infer when someone calls a group of people [[generally understood to be made up of mostly men) cocksuckers?

[Zacha341]

Not the most wonderful thing to call someone but you get 'homophobia' out of it?

Well ok....

Nice to see the casual homophobia still going strong around here. Cocksuckers? really?

unless, of course, someone can tell me what else we're supposed to infer when someone calls a group of people [[generally understood to be made up of mostly men) cocksuckers?