Mayor Bing expected to unveil plan to privatize Detroit bus, lighting systems

[professorscott]

So the question lies here: can the union heads and city leadership get these things done? Or will an EFM have to come in?

Past experience and present rhetoric tells us: an EFM will have to come in.

[Schoolcraft]

What I DID like about the speech was that Bing finally brought up the revenue sharing deal that the state made with the city.... if there is a contract out there that shows that agreement, the city needs to go after that, first by asking politely and if no luck there, forcefully in court. There's no way that $220 million [[or however much money that is owed) should be left on the table in a time of crisis.

[Dexlin]

That is crazy just from a purely practical standpoint. If even Detroit is in the right to request a return to its former revenue sharing levels, that is a court case that would drag on for years; Detroit has months to get its shit in order. Going after revenue sharing will not save Detroit; the clock is too far down.

[Novine]

" There's no way that $220 million [[or however much money that is owed) should be left on the table in a time of crisis."

There's no contract. It was legislation passed by the state. The State Legislature can giveth and they can taketh away. That's what they did and no court is going to agree with Detroit about getting that money back. Bing needs to stop wasting time and offering up fools gold to city residents.

[trotwood]

In fact, they're eliminating all their existing service inside the city limits in December, dumping all that extra ridership onto the already-overtaxed DDOT arterial routes.

Now pardon my ignorance on current local affairs but I'm a bit confused by what's going on.
When I first heard about the proposed cuts I telephoned Smart to ask questions&voice my opinion. I was told then Smart wasn't eliminating service into the city just scaling down.I asked exactly when Smart would&wouldn't run into the city.I was told the routes I was inquiring about[[450&460)would only run during peak hours.Just to make sure I was understanding what I was hearing I asked the woman to explain to me[[as though I were an 8 year old)what peak hours were? "From when to when will these routes run through the city of Detroit"? I was told they'd run to&from dwntown Detroit from 9am-6pm. I then said "So they'll go to downtown Detroit&back again from 9 in the morning until 6 in the evening Monday-Friday? I'll be able to catch the 460 from the RO transist station&ride to downtown Detroit?" I apologized for possibly sounding like an idiot but explained I wanted to make certain I was clear. She answered me with a resounding "Yes!You'll be able to go from RO transit to dwntown Detroit from 9-6 M-F". I called once more after that a few days later&received the same answer.
I log on here&read that Smart is[[in essence)eliminating service to the city altogether, so I called Smart again.This time I'm told buses will only run in&out of the city of Detroit from 6-9am&3-6pm.
What's going on??? Why is this being done? Someone else said it's budget related. Wasn't the purpose of the last millage[[which I voted in favor of) meant to go toward[[in part)keeping Smart service running in it's entirety????
Again I apologize if I'm missing something here.

[stasu1213]

Where did Bing and council find the money to give incentives for anyone who want to reside in midtown?. How could the city give out tax abaitments if the city if "broke"? Was money redirected into incentives and abatements and out of the genera funds that would take care of city services including police, fire, and ems?

[313WX]

Where did Bing and council find the money to give incentives for anyone who want to reside in midtown?. How could the city give out tax abaitments if the city if "broke"? Was money redirected into incentives and abatements and out of the genera funds that would take care of city services including police, fire, and ems?

As I understood it, the midtown/downtown incentives were jointly funded by private interest groups [[businesses) in downtown.

But yes, if any money did come of the city's coffers, then heck yes every citizen in Detroit should be pissed about this. You can't even provide basic service to 98% of the city and your taxpaying citizens but you can pay people [[who probably haven't paid anything in taxes as of yet) to live in Condos, where they still won't pay any appreciable taxes anytime soon.

[antongast]

Wasn't the purpose of the last millage[[which I voted in favor of) meant to go toward[[in part)keeping Smart service running in it's entirety????

What you voted for was a renewal of the existing millage at the previous rate, not a new millage or an increase. Property values have been dropping over the last several years, so the same millage rate is yielding less revenue than it used to.

[trotwood]

What you voted for was a renewal of the existing millage at the previous rate, not a new millage or an increase. Property values have been dropping over the last several years, so the same millage rate is yielding less revenue than it used to.

Yes I knew it was a renewal of the exsiting millage. For some reason I thought renewing would ensure Smart continued to offer full service in the counties in which it[[the renewal)passed.
I know times are tight across the board but it doesn't seem Smart's plan is going to work well given the fact that DDOT is an already severly strained system.
Thanks for responding.

[stasu1213]

Can an EFM merge the two [[DDOT and SMART) without the union's dissaproval?

[speramusmeliora]

The new management team has a history of going in, cutting service, and setting up contracts with private transit firms like Veolia transportation that will give an unrealistic low-bid to run service in Detroit. They will operate at a loss for a year or two, and then jack up prices to municipality and customer alike, and reduce service. But by the time they do that, they already have secured a contract and disbanded local alternatives that can run public transportation. This is a more immediate concern than the RTA, because it won't matter what governing structure the RTA has if the people operating service inside of it are predators.

I've been told that Mark Aesch of Envisurage [[part of the mayor's private $2M-$4M team) recently set-up just this situation** in Long Island before coming to the city. But no one talks about that, all they mention is his time in Rochester, NY.

It is a sell-out. Veolia et al. do not care about Detroiters, providing excellent transit service, they only care about profits. DDOT used Veolia before for paratransit and they were so scandalous that DDOT/City has been in court with them and have banned them from ever coming to Detroit again. But that might not be the case if they use a sub- or sister- company; the ways to sneakily put in a bid are endless.

Yes DDOT had major problems, Yes DDOT needed some restructuring help, but this is the not the kind that it needed.

**http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/06/...-protest-move/

And if you haven't seen this, now is the time:
http://voiceofdetroit.net/2012/02/09...ctor-gets-big/

[Detroitnerd]

Haha. Bing, a former board member of DTE, and still carrying their water, I'm sure.

[Jason]

Can an EFM merge the two [[DDOT and SMART) without the union's dissaproval?

I'm not sure, but probably not, since SMART is an independent group that isn't directly related to the city of Detroit.

[Hypestyles]

.... what will the new city charter affect, if anything, concerning maintaining a public transit service?

[cramerro]

And if you haven't seen this, now is the time:
http://voiceofdetroit.net/2012/02/09...ctor-gets-big/

I understand this is terrible stuff that's going down, but both sides are being rediculous with this back-and-forth. Did anyone notice that the City is on the brink of being taken over by an EFM? Ever think that maybe the cuts were so the City wouldn't go bankrupt? Just becuase there is a private management team aiding in management of DDOT doesn't mean that they have the power to make funding decisions, which is what is causing these cuts. Read the quotes and form an opinion on your own instead of being told what to think by less than objective news outlets.

A few quotes and food for thought:
"But a primary goal listed in the work order is to ”design alternatives to transition the governance structure to exist in a regional authority.”

-- this should be seen as a positive. Bing is acknowledging the failure of the city to effectively deal with the realities of funding cuts when it comes to bus service... think of how many frequent, peicemeal, constantly changing cuts the City has gone through with DDOT for the last 2+ years. The intent is further backed up by an article [[source forgotten) that quoted Bing as saying that part of these cuts and the management team are so that you can actually count on the buses being there at the new schedule times... like living within your means, these cuts produce a schedule that they can actually stick to [[at least they are doing this in theory as opposed to the past of just cut whatever).

"Many Detroiters fear that a regional authority will condemn Detroit to second-class transportation status, and mean a loss of funds for Detroit bus routes, as well as jobs for Detroiters."

-- this to me if it is even true shows just how effective certain people are with clouding the facts. I for one have heard on more than one occasion that a majority of people are to the point of "I don't care if the bus system is run by North Dakota as long as it actually gets me where I need to go." I mean, seriously, a regional authority will condemn Detroit to second-class status? Seems to me like that would be an upgrade from what we have now which is no status. The RTA will run more/new/upgraded service into the city because it is a regional system and the region is full of people who live in one place and work in another altogether.

Finally, if anything shows that the FTA will not let this happen, look to its decision to cut off the Woodward Light Rail. They lost alot in that decision, but made it because they knew it was destined to fail, and by approving it they would be dooming the local/feeder bus that serves people who need it instead of just those within 1/4 mile of Woodward. The FTA has a lot of funding at play, and they are not going to stand for making Detroit second class so long as they have $50M+ in the mix every year.

Be mad at the situation - contact your legislators on every level and push them to move forward with the RTA and funding legislation at all costs. Remember that the cuts are not a profit-making venture - even PB/Envisourage don't stand to make any more money by saving the City money - the cuts are a result of city subsidy funds that are diving toward ZERO.

[antongast]

I understand this is terrible stuff that's going down, but both sides are being rediculous with this back-and-forth. Did anyone notice that the City is on the brink of being taken over by an EFM? Ever think that maybe the cuts were so the City wouldn't go bankrupt? Just becuase there is a private management team aiding in management of DDOT doesn't mean that they have the power to make funding decisions, which is what is causing these cuts. Read the quotes and form an opinion on your own instead of being told what to think by less than objective news outlets.

As long as the City of Detroit exists and is spending some nonzero amount of money on things, "the city is broke" has to be balanced against "the city is prioritizing X over Y." My problem with Bing's stewardship of DDOT is that he doesn't take transit service seriously as a priority of city government, and has been trying to implement drastic service cuts from day one of his administration on the mistaken premise that DDOT is currently operating more service than its riders need [[he saw some empty buses on Conner and Jefferson once). If he had started out by doing everything possible to increase revenue and reduce inefficiencies, and if he'd been consistently lobbying for a better long-term solution for transit funding, or even if he had articulated a clear vision for how he's going to provide transit service to Detroiters going forward instead of just cuts and more cuts, I'd be more inclined to trust him. As it is, he's mostly served to convey the impression that he doesn't think transit is very important, and that he'd prefer that the city direct a significant proportion of that spending into other things.

As for the RTA bills in the legislature, correct me if I'm wrong about this, but I don't remember them containing anything about funding regular local transit operations in either the city or suburbs. A transit authority to operate regional BRT is a worthwhile idea on its own merits, but it's not going to fix DDOT, reverse past and pending service cuts, or stave off future rounds of cuts.

[detroitmale]

I agree 48091...

[midtown313]

I agree 48091!!

[stasu1213]

Imagine how much money DDOT take in a month if 120,000 people ride them daily or weekly. Imagine if that money goes back into DDOT instead of back to the general funds so that politician could misuse it. This system is destine to fail. Bing and some members of the council are being told to sabatoge DDOT by the entities that controls them and line their pockets or campaign funds.I had always said that instead of cutting lines where ridership is light put smaller busses on those lines at the time when ridership is low. Detroit had a history of poorly operating it's bus system every since the early Young Administration. This is done by design to make life so uncomfortable for residents hoping they would move. Bing and council uses the EFM as a bogey man and they have to make these cuts to ward him off. I am beginning to believe that the powers to be who are controlling Bing and some members of the council would like to turn Detroit back into a car only town and us poor people will have to live on the other side of the tracks. No timely busses, EMS, police, and fire. What else can I say. Go figure

[runnerXT]

Imagine how much money DDOT take in a month if 120,000 people ride them daily or weekly. Imagine if that money goes back into DDOT instead of back to the general funds so that politician could misuse it. This system is destine to fail. Bing and some members of the council are being told to sabatoge DDOT by the entities that controls them and line their pockets or campaign funds.I had always said that instead of cutting lines where ridership is light put smaller busses on those lines at the time when ridership is low. Detroit had a history of poorly operating it's bus system every since the early Young Administration. This is done by design to make life so uncomfortable for residents hoping they would move. Bing and council uses the EFM as a bogey man and they have to make these cuts to ward him off. I am beginning to believe that the powers to be who are controlling Bing and some members of the council would like to turn Detroit back into a car only town and us poor people will have to live on the other side of the tracks. No timely busses, EMS, police, and fire. What else can I say. Go figure

A fare lets say is $2.00. Does the 120,000 rides a day include people who transfer lines, a transfer is cheaper, and does it include students who pay less, etc. Will that be less money coming in daily - yup. But anyway lets stick with 120,000 full fares a day.

That brings in $3.6 million/month in fares with a 30 day month. The city of Detroit subsidizes monthly, according to the article, the transit to the amount of $6.3 million/month. This is above what is taken in, in fares to cover costs. So the sytem need an additional $6.3 million/month to operate above what they take in fares.

The system is getting way back more in return than what the fares cover. It looks like using 120,000 riders a day paying full far only cover about 30% of the cost of operating the system.

I'm not making a judgement just stating the facts. I'm in no way making an opinion.