Without Cuts, Detroit out of Cash by April - Bing to Address Issue at 6PM Nov. 16

[Crumbled_pavement]

"He's a businessman, he's a businessman. OMG, he's a businessman. That's what Detroit needs is a businessman. Government needs to be run like a business. It's about time we got a businessman running Detroit!!!!"

Meanwhile Detroit is run no different than it has been for the last 6 decades. I tried to tell people we would be better off with Cochran in the Manoogian, but NOOOOOOOOOOOOO... I don't imagine the problems Detroit is facing at this point are reversable. We've long past that point. It's all downhill from here.

[iheartthed]

Why wouldn't they? Pontiac is in receivership right now if I'm correct. I know Pontiac's importance to the state isn't the same, but still.

Bankruptcy isn't the same as going into receivership.

[Det_ard]

Not to be snarky, well I apologize for being snarky in my upcoming comment but could you provide an example of a police agency outside of Detroit that enforces the law differently? I believe your entire statement is full of hyperbole and bullshit but I invite you to prove me wrong.

Look at what's acceptable driving down Jefferson in Detroit, then cross over into GP and drive the same way. You'll quickly learn that the law is enforced differently in those two communities.

[antongast]

Look at what's acceptable driving down Jefferson in Detroit, then cross over into GP and drive the same way. You'll quickly learn that the law is enforced differently in those two communities.

That's your problem with DPD? Insufficiently stringent enforcement of traffic violations? How about the rights violations that led to the consent decrees? Or their tendency to kill innocent people by mistake a la Aiyana Stanley-Jones? DPD is a mess, but traffic enforcement is the least of their problems.

[R8RBOB]

Look at what's acceptable driving down Jefferson in Detroit, then cross over into GP and drive the same way. You'll quickly learn that the law is enforced differently in those two communities.

Typical suburban response. Shameful but typical. I think you are better than this. Try harder....wait my original response wasn't for you but since you responded, I say try harder and use something other than writing a moving violation ticket.

That's your problem with DPD? Insufficiently stringent enforcement of traffic violations? How about the rights violations that led to the consent decrees? Or their tendency to kill innocent people by mistake a la Aiyana Stanley-Jones? DPD is a mess, but traffic enforcement is the least of their problems.

The problem with some suburbanites is that they have it too good. Because they don't have many murders or B&Es or carjackings they think policing is about writing speeding tickets and escorting city and county officials home. Someone foolishly posted that enforcement of the law outside the city of Detroit is so much tougher. I want real examples like how would stop the drug dealers from returning to a neighborhood after they were already busted since policing in Detroit is so inferior.

[erikd]

From the Free Press:

Since 2008, health insurance costs for Detroit employees and retirees have jumped 62% to $186 million a year, city records show. During the same period, the city's contribution to pensions increased from $50 million to $120 million.

http://www.freep.com/article/2011111...-cash-by-April

The skyrocketing costs of health care and pensions are the root causes of the budget crisis, and there are very few options on the table to manage them.

Even if the city had a growing tax base, the health care/pension problem would still bankrupt the city in a matter of years.

This is the same root problem that drove the big three to the brink of collapse, and it is now a major problem for the public sector.

The private sector has responded to this crisis with an elimination of pensions and retiree health care plans, and rapidly increasing copays and deductibles for existing employees. The public sector has no choice but to follow suit. Detroit will probably be one of the first major government entities to have to deal with this crisis, but it is just a matter of time before this situation hits even the most fiscally sound units of government.

At some point very soon, probably within a decade or so, pensions will be completely unheard of, and health insurance will become a luxury only affordable for the rich.

[Det_ard]

That's your problem with DPD? Insufficiently stringent enforcement of traffic violations? How about the rights violations that led to the consent decrees? Or their tendency to kill innocent people by mistake a la Aiyana Stanley-Jones? DPD is a mess, but traffic enforcement is the least of their problems.

Excuse me antongast, the question asked by R8RBOB was "could you provide an example of a police agency outside of Detroit that enforces the law differently?", which I clearly did.

It was not "what are your problems with DPD", as you seem to think, and while that is an interesting topic which you may wish to pursue further, it is a spurious response to my answer.

[Det_ard]

Typical suburban response. Shameful but typical. I think you are better than this. Try harder....wait my original response wasn't for you but since you responded, I say try harder and use something other than writing a moving violation ticket.

Huh? You posed a specific question -- "could you provide an example of a police agency outside of Detroit that enforces the law differently?", which I clearly did. Apparently you were hoping for a different answer, one that wasn't "shameful", "typical" and "suburban". If you wanted an answer more tailored to your preconceptions you should have been more specific.

The problem with some suburbanites is that they have it too good. Because they don't have many murders or B&Es or carjackings they think policing is about writing speeding tickets and escorting city and county officials home. Someone foolishly posted that enforcement of the law outside the city of Detroit is so much tougher. I want real examples like how would stop the drug dealers from returning to a neighborhood after they were already busted since policing in Detroit is so inferior.

Everyone knows you can get away with shit in the city that would never fly outside the city. Wake the fuck up, cupcake. Take your lumps, you asked a basic question and received a simple answer, no need to get all testy with "some suburbanites" for no relevant reason.

[R8RBOB]

From the Free Press:



http://www.freep.com/article/2011111...-cash-by-April

The skyrocketing costs of health care and pensions are the root causes of the budget crisis, and there are very few options on the table to manage them.

Even if the city had a growing tax base, the health care/pension problem would still bankrupt the city in a matter of years.

This is the same root problem that drove the big three to the brink of collapse, and it is now a major problem for the public sector.

The private sector has responded to this crisis with an elimination of pensions and retiree health care plans, and rapidly increasing copays and deductibles for existing employees. The public sector has no choice but to follow suit. Detroit will probably be one of the first major government entities to have to deal with this crisis, but it is just a matter of time before this situation hits even the most fiscally sound units of government.

At some point very soon, probably within a decade or so, pensions will be completely unheard of, and health insurance will become a luxury only affordable for the rich.

Now this is what happens when you inspire human beings to eat healthy, to exercise, quit drinking, quit smoking and oh yeah say "no to drugs." You live longer and companies have to keep paying long after you suppose to be dead.

It is funny how paying into pensions and health care benefits are bankrupting municipalities and corporations. I suppose things like outsourcing of jobs, gambling on Wall Street and straight theft didn't have a role in these municipalities and corporations crying broke. I bet you believe that the 2008 financial meltdown was the result of poor people taking loans they could not pay back to buy homes.

[R8RBOB]

Huh? You posed a specific question -- "could you provide an example of a police agency outside of Detroit that enforces the law differently?", which I clearly did. Apparently you were hoping for a different answer, one that wasn't "shameful", "typical" and "suburban". If you wanted an answer more tailored to your preconceptions you should have been more specific.


Everyone knows you can get away with shit in the city that would never fly outside the city. Wake the fuck up, cupcake. Take your lumps, you asked a basic question and received a simple answer, no need to get all testy with "some suburbanites" for no relevant reason.

All I can say is "the truth hurts."

[antongast]

Excuse me antongast, the question asked by R8RBOB was "could you provide an example of a police agency outside of Detroit that enforces the law differently?", which I clearly did.

It was not "what are your problems with DPD", as you seem to think, and while that is an interesting topic which you may wish to pursue further, it is a spurious response to my answer.

Fair enough. Strictly speaking, you answered his question, and I jumped to a conclusion based on what you chose to focus on in your answer. Traffic enforcement still strikes me as a weird thing to latch onto, though, in terms of what sets DPD apart from other police departments in other cities.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Bankruptcy isn't the same as going into receivership.

Thx for the correction, but technically neither one is good thing.

[Dexlin]

It is funny how paying into pensions and health care benefits are bankrupting municipalities and corporations. I suppose things like outsourcing of jobs, gambling on Wall Street and straight theft didn't have a role in these municipalities and corporations crying broke. I bet you believe that the 2008 financial meltdown was the result of poor people taking loans they could not pay back to buy homes.

Maybe I'm not familiar with erikd, but did he anywhere in that post say that the elimination of pensions and healthcare becoming a luxury for the rich was a good thing, 'cause I sure as hell didn't see it. Sounds to me he was painting out exactly what is happening all over this country. At the end of the day, making healthcare a tax that you pay out on the front end instead of continually dealing with this failed idea that we can do this through private insurance, is the only thing that's going to save local government, that is, unless we're content with eventually only the well-off being able to afford healthcare. Otherwise, there are going to be many more Detroits.

[skyl4rk]

Fixing the health care and health insurance systems is as important a job as fixing local government.

My comment on replacing the DPD was based on what is happening in Pontiac, where the County took over policing from the City by EFM decree. Based on reports posted at this forum, apparently the Sheriff has more stringent enforcement standards than the City did.

Because of the size of the City of Detroit, there is probably no organization that could take on policing of the entire area other than DPD. But you might find an EFM contracting out to provide additional police services in high crime areas, or developing areas.

[Novine]

"The public sector has no choice but to follow suit. Detroit will probably be one of the first major government entities to have to deal with this crisis, but it is just a matter of time before this situation hits even the most fiscally sound units of government."

Huh? You would have a hard time finding any government that's not facing these same problems and struggling with how to deal with them. Health care costs have been going up for everyone in the public and private sectors. Pension systems, like your 401ks, were hammered by the Wall Street crash in 2008. Most are recovering nicely as the stock market has moved up. But the need for increased contributions at a time when revenues has plummeted has pushed them into crisis mode. Not everyone is going to be pulled down though. Some, like Oakland County, have restructured their benefits enough that they'll probably weather the storm in decent shape.

[R8RBOB]

Fixing the health care and health insurance systems is as important a job as fixing local government.

My comment on replacing the DPD was based on what is happening in Pontiac, where the County took over policing from the City by EFM decree. Based on reports posted at this forum, apparently the Sheriff has more stringent enforcement standards than the City did.

Because of the size of the City of Detroit, there is probably no organization that could take on policing of the entire area other than DPD. But you might find an EFM contracting out to provide additional police services in high crime areas, or developing areas.

I think many in Detroit wouldn't mind if Wayne County had more than an active role in policing within the city limits. We have a crime problem in Detroit and though Detroit has decreased in population we still have the same 138 sq mi. which gives a lot of room for criminals to roam.

One of the things that pisses me off in regards to Detroit going broke is that no one is talking creating a new Detroit or come up with a plan to rebuild Detroit. Detroit needs a "Marshall Plan" because this city needs to increase the population. It needs home owners, not renters. That should be number 1 but the city needs to tackle the crime problem, the school problem, the services problem, the auto-insurance problem. the housing problem before people move to the city in mass.

[Danny]

So this is KING BING'S plan for Detroit after all!


1. Became a EFM Dictator.

2. Privatize all Detroit city services from D-DOT to Detroit Dept. of Waterworks.

3. Separate Detroit City Council from the people's vote to a evil ward like infrastucture: each district, each invidual with the peoples vote in each evil ward.

4 Invite corporations in. Give them a 20 year tax break and plan to gentrify the inner cities and expand to the black ghettohoods to Detroit.

5. Transform the inner city Detroit ghettoes into a yuppified culture community with higher rent lofts, supercondos and luxury apts. Also prevent section 8 housing from returning to the inner city areas.

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

"It's time for all of y'all po-folks, mutants, crazies and black folks to hit 8 Mile Rd." sez... KING BING.

For the 99 Percenters and Guy Fawkes

I miss you so, Neda.

[corktownyuppie]

"The public sector has no choice but to follow suit. Detroit will probably be one of the first major government entities to have to deal with this crisis, but it is just a matter of time before this situation hits even the most fiscally sound units of government."

Huh? You would have a hard time finding any government that's not facing these same problems and struggling with how to deal with them. Health care costs have been going up for everyone in the public and private sectors. Pension systems, like your 401ks, were hammered by the Wall Street crash in 2008. Most are recovering nicely as the stock market has moved up. But the need for increased contributions at a time when revenues has plummeted has pushed them into crisis mode. Not everyone is going to be pulled down though. Some, like Oakland County, have restructured their benefits enough that they'll probably weather the storm in decent shape.

It kills me that people are shocked this was coming. As you say, just about every governmental unit is dealing with this problem in one degree or another. Back in 2008 and 2009 when just all private sector financing, construction, and real estate development came to a halt, that didn't change municipal operations one bit. I had clients whose businesses were literally bringing in less than 20% of the sales that they do in an average year.

So what's going on Detroit is the same thing everyone else went through. Just 2-3 years delayed. I, for one, am looking forward to the restructuring of the city. And I recognize that my father's pension will unfortunately have to be affected. But once and for all we can deal with all our problems in one fell swoop, rather than spending 6-12 months in negotiations with 47 governmental departments and unions over the next 7 years. We don't have time for that.

What's good for Detroit won't necessarily be good for Detroiters. But it's what needs to happen.

[R8RBOB]

Bing is ready to privatize.

http://www.freep.com/article/2011111...yssey=nav|head

[Searay215]

OMG....where do I start,

1. City council has too many staff members, and other perks.

2. They have city owned cars, let them drive their own cars

3. Make all city workers pay a share of their health care, reduce how much the city puts into the pension fund and have the employees pay into it.

4. Turn over Belle Isle to the Metro Parks and charge a small fee to get on.

5. Turn over more of the city services to the private sector, garbage, lighting, etc.

6 Renegotiate all contracts with the unions....again!!

Anyone want to add to the list.....? Go for it!!

[iheartthed]

4. Turn over Belle Isle to the Metro Parks and charge a small fee to get on.

This has been discussed ad nauseum around here. Metro Parks does not want Belle Isle.

[SWMAP]

Pry property taxes out of homeowners. Get the State to allow more sanctions against deadbeats who don't pay their property taxes and stay around for years. I see in the Plante Moran study that most cities [[even poor cities) can depend on property tax collections for 60% of their general Fund. Detroit property taxes collections only fund 14% of our general fund. This is sick and a slap in the face to those residents who do pay their taxes. Where is Joann Watson on this topic???

[firstandten]

"He's a businessman, he's a businessman. OMG, he's a businessman. That's what Detroit needs is a businessman. Government needs to be run like a business. It's about time we got a businessman running Detroit!!!!"

Meanwhile Detroit is run no different than it has been for the last 6 decades. I tried to tell people we would be better off with Cochran in the Manoogian, but NOOOOOOOOOOOOO... I don't imagine the problems Detroit is facing at this point are reversable. We've long past that point. It's all downhill from here.

If Bing had decided he was a businessman instead of a politician we might be on our way to solving some of the problems. He should have rolled up his sleeves accepted the mayor's salary from the beginning, convinced himself that he would be the one-term mayor he campaigned on and begin to do the things that were necessary but wouldn't get him re-elected. Now people are so upset he won't get re-elected anyway.

[Lowell]

Bing to Address Issue at 6PM Nov. 16


Bing expected to unveil plan to privatize Detroit bus, lighting

Detroit Mayor Dave Bing is expected to announce today an effort to privatize management of the city's beleaguered bus system and its troubled public lighting department...

Link

[Scottathew]

4. Sell off of "assets" like CAY/City Airport, Department of Public Lighting, city's share of tunnel revenue, etc.

I thought Kwame sold the tunnel?