Federal Judge to Order a New Management System for the Detroit Water & Sewerage Dept.

[detroitsgwenivere]

If you don't like the way Detroit runs the water dept., than pay for and build your own.

Just feel free to disconnect the main line at your city's limit at any time.

[MikeM]

If you don't like the way Detroit runs the water dept., than pay for and build your own.

Tell it to the judge, honey!

[kraig]

The root cause committee's report explained the difficulties in maintaining compliance with the CWA and suggested remedies which the court adopted.

The Committee, half of which consisted of Charles Pugh and Gary Brown, recommendations only dealt with administrative aspects and not the actual operations of the department that would bring DWSD into compliance.

See for yourself. http://www.freep.com/assets/freep/pdf/C4181459114.PDF

And their poor excuse for a report never even bothered to look at the on the ground problems that are causing the pollution. The report dealt with money, that's all this is about.

[MikeM]

The department can't staff itself sufficiently. It can't train personel adequately. It can't purchase needed equipment in a timely manner. It deferred maintenance too long. Too much bureaucracy in the procurement process, etc. The end result is a solids inventory the system can't handle. The judge is helping remove impediments to solve those issues.

[kraig]

The department can't staff itself sufficiently. It can't train personel adequately. It can't purchase needed equipment in a timely manner. It deferred maintenance too long. Too much bureaucracy in the procurement process, etc. The end result is a solids inventory the system can't handle. The judge is helping remove impediments to solve those issues.

Weak. Those are management issues. It still doesn't answer the pollution questions. Where is the pollution? Where in the system is it coming from? What is the break down in the system? What will be done to fix the problem?

Here's what you just don't seem to comprehend. A vague, overview concept is not the answer to an extremely particular problem. For example, when the City of Detroit holds hearings for blight violations. The City wants to know what has been done about fixing the blight. They don't care about what is going on in your personal life. They don't care about the internal mangement issues of your business. They only care about what will be done to fix the problem. Changing your companies by-laws or administrative structure isn't going to cut it.

It's not an administrative problem, it's an environmental problem that needs to have an environmental answer.

Would it be sufficient for the DIBC to go to court and say it's adopted new by-laws without actually addressing the changes that the judge has ordered them to make? I don't think so.

[internet_pseudopod]

Umm, the suburbs never "begged" to be part of the system; Detroit regularly solicited suburbs to join the system.....

After Detroit stopped soliciting and started saying no the suburbs begged just a little bit until they got what they wanted.

[Mikeg]

Weak. Those are management issues. It still doesn't answer the pollution questions. Where is the pollution? Where in the system is it coming from? What is the break down in the system?.....

The "pollution" is the result of too much solids being discharged into the Detroit River. Why aren't enough solids being removed before they discharge the effluent into the river? Because of chronic breakdowns of mechanical systems. Why can't they keep the systems up and running? Because the DWSD doesn't do any preventive maintenance, in other words, it's because of management issues!

With Feikens gone and Cox in place, the word went down that if the DWSD didn't get their systems working so they can operate within their permitted discharge limits, there would be no more excuses and the responsible DWSD managers would be heading off to jail. That caused the DWSD managers to finally get serious and they've been awarding emergency contracts all year to try and get key systems fixed so they can operate in compliance.

The DWSD sewage treatment plant's "modus operandi" for the last 40+ years has been to use federal dollars as much as possible to fund the new treatment systems. However federal dollars can only be spent on "new technology" and not on the repair or maintenance of existing systems. So the game that has been played is to install a new system with federal assistance, run it into the ground and in five years or so get federal funds for a new system using slightly different technology, then rip the old system out once the new system is up and running, rinse, lather and repeat.....

The Jefferson plant used to be able to burn most of its sludge on-site and send the ash to landfills and only have to use the very expensive method of trucking sludge to landfills during peak periods. But because of lack of maintenance on the furnaces, the DWSD has become heavily dependent on the high-cost trucking of sludge, but hey - who cares as long as they can just pass the costs on to the users?

Where there's big money to be made in something like sludge hauling, you can be sure the opportunists will be coming out of the woodwork. As an example of the ineptitude and lack of communication between DWSD's purchasing and engineering management, they guaranteed Synagro more daily sludge than their automated truck docks could load onto Synagro's trucks. I think the penalties that the DWSD had to pay Synagro whenever they couldn't deliver the contracted amounts of sludge helped Synagro cover the "commissions" they paid to get the business.

All this was happening under Feikens' nose and Cox is simply cleaning up the mess that festered on his watch and making the necessary management and policy changes that are required to bring the Jefferson plant into compliance as soon as possible.

[JBMcB]

Weak. Those are management issues. It still doesn't answer the pollution questions. Where is the pollution? Where in the system is it coming from? What is the break down in the system? What will be done to fix the problem?

I don't think you read the court's findings as it lays out the rationale precisely. The EPA cites the city for a particular violation. They work out a method with the DWSD to fix the problem. The city doesn't implement the solution. The EPA sites them again, they work out a plan, the city doesn't implement. Lather, rinse, and repeat, for three decades. If the management of the DWSD can't figure out how to implement a remediation plan that they agreed to, they need to go.

[kraig]

The "pollution" is the result of too much solids being discharged into the Detroit River. Why aren't enough solids being removed before they discharge the effluent into the river? Because of chronic breakdowns of mechanical systems. Why can't they keep the systems up and running? Because the DWSD doesn't do any preventive maintenance, in other words, it's because of management issues!

With Feikens gone and Cox in place, the word went down that if the DWSD didn't get their systems working so they can operate within their permitted discharge limits, there would be no more excuses and the responsible DWSD managers would be heading off to jail. That caused the DWSD managers to finally get serious and they've been awarding emergency contracts all year to try and get key systems fixed so they can operate in compliance.

The DWSD sewage treatment plant's "modus operandi" for the last 40+ years has been to use federal dollars as much as possible to fund the new treatment systems. However federal dollars can only be spent on "new technology" and not on the repair or maintenance of existing systems. So the game that has been played is to install a new system with federal assistance, run it into the ground and in five years or so get federal funds for a new system using slightly different technology, then rip the old system out once the new system is up and running, rinse, lather and repeat.....

The Jefferson plant used to be able to burn most of its sludge on-site and send the ash to landfills and only have to use the very expensive method of trucking sludge to landfills during peak periods. But because of lack of maintenance on the furnaces, the DWSD has become heavily dependent on the high-cost trucking of sludge, but hey - who cares as long as they can just pass the costs on to the users?

Where there's big money to be made in something like sludge hauling, you can be sure the opportunists will be coming out of the woodwork. As an example of the ineptitude and lack of communication between DWSD's purchasing and engineering management, they guaranteed Synagro more daily sludge than their automated truck docks could load onto Synagro's trucks. I think the penalties that the DWSD had to pay Synagro whenever they couldn't deliver the contracted amounts of sludge helped Synagro cover the "commissions" they paid to get the business.

All this was happening under Feikens' nose and Cox is simply cleaning up the mess that festered on his watch and making the necessary management and policy changes that are required to bring the Jefferson plant into compliance as soon as possible.

So in essence what you're saying is that the bulk of the problems were of DWSD's own doing and mismanagement? And now the plan is to give the department that has been mismanaging its resources and awarding pathetic contracts more autonomy to do so with less transparency and oversight?

Again, I stand by my original assessment, this order by the judge will do nothing to address the real problems.

[Mikeg]

Again, I stand by my original assessment, this order by the judge will do nothing to address the real problems.

The threat of jail time is already producing some action, although its too early to know if it will produce the necessary results. I think that the rest of the changes Cox has ordered was to remove the excuses he was getting from them - no more real or imagined impediments. If they can't produce the necessary results at the city's "jewel on Jefferson", then Cox will find folks who can.

[kraig]

I don't think you read the court's findings as it lays out the rationale precisely. The EPA cites the city for a particular violation. They work out a method with the DWSD to fix the problem. The city doesn't implement the solution. The EPA sites them again, they work out a plan, the city doesn't implement. Lather, rinse, and repeat, for three decades. If the management of the DWSD can't figure out how to implement a remediation plan that they agreed to, they need to go.

The consent order is based off of the plan by the Root Cause Committee [[Pugh, Brown and Co). The plan by the committee doesn't address how the City is going to remediate the pollution issues. So even if the City executes the Committee's plan to perfection [[highly doubtful). That doesn't necessarily mean that the pollution problem will be addressed. That's why I provided the link to the Committee's recommendation, that's what the consent order, key word, order, not findings, as in this is what you are ordered to do.

[MikeM]

Weak. Those are management issues. It still doesn't answer the pollution questions. Where is the pollution? Where in the system is it coming from? What is the break down in the system? What will be done to fix the problem?

Here's what you just don't seem to comprehend. A vague, overview concept is not the answer to an extremely particular problem.

It's not an administrative problem, it's an environmental problem that needs to have an environmental answer.

If you're looking for the judge to dictate the day-to-day operation of the system then you will be disappointed. The judge isn't going to get into the details of every step of the operation of the system; he's not going to dictate which equipment the city buys or who they hire or when they work; he's working his way up the chain of events to deal with it at the top.

Where is the pollution? At the WWTP.
Where in the system is it coming from? The WWTP.
What is the break down in the system? Specifically: Belt filter presses, centrifuges, incinerators, conveyors. Generally: Aged equipment, poor or deferred maintenance, lack of qualified personnel, lack of training, an expensive and protracted procurement process.

[HistoryNotHisStory]

Weak. Those are management issues. It still doesn't answer the pollution questions. Where is the pollution? Where in the system is it coming from? What is the break down in the system? What will be done to fix the problem?

Here's what you just don't seem to comprehend. A vague, overview concept is not the answer to an extremely particular problem. For example, when the City of Detroit holds hearings for blight violations. The City wants to know what has been done about fixing the blight. They don't care about what is going on in your personal life. They don't care about the internal mangement issues of your business. They only care about what will be done to fix the problem. Changing your companies by-laws or administrative structure isn't going to cut it.

It's not an administrative problem, it's an environmental problem that needs to have an environmental answer.

Would it be sufficient for the DIBC to go to court and say it's adopted new by-laws without actually addressing the changes that the judge has ordered them to make? I don't think so.

The environmental issue is in the hands of the federal judge who has the authoritarian oversight of DWSD. Therefore, he can manage it as he deems fit.

[Gistok]

If you don't like the way Detroit runs the water dept., than pay for and build your own.

Just feel free to disconnect the main line at your city's limit at any time.

LOL.... I live in St. Clair Shores... and when I have a water related issue, my city takes care or investigates it ASAP....

When my late mother [[living in Detroit's far east side) had issues with her bill and water meter... it took 6 visits to the McNichols/Schoenherr DWSD office to get her problem straigtened out... but not before she got 2 disconnect notices because the DWSD claimed they could not read her inside meter to compare... even though she was home 100% of the time. We scheduled 3 special appointments [[where I was there waiting)... they were always no shows... by the end of the ordeal mom was so upset, that she never watered her grass again, even though she was always proud of how nice and green she had kept it.

It took a 6th and final visit to the DSWB, where I had to had to go postal and make a scene in front of the entire office to finally get her problem resolved.

Some of you who post here remind me of JoAnn Watson... you scream that the suburbs want to take your Jewels away... and yet every day "your" proverbial jewel becomes more and more unmanageable... but you can't seem to see it... oh well....

I just don't know why the city doesn't put it on the market for sale... so that you actually get some money back for the system that you paid for. You might actually be able to pay off the city's debt, and have some money left over for a rainy day fund.

But no... let's wait for the day when it finally is taken away... then the rest of us can say "I told you so"... [[even the ones of us that would have prefered that you be compensated for it via its' sale early on...).

[SWMAP]

Gistock, aren't the canals in St Clair Shores famously polluted with carcinogic PCB's for generations and no body in St Clair Shores can figure out where coming from and only now being remedied after residential lawsuits. And what about the beaches like at Blossom Heath? Aren't St Clair Shores beaches always closed due to pollution?
I would not be bragging on St Clair Shores as the epitome of good water
management if I lived there.

[Gistok]

Gistock, aren't the canals in St Clair Shores famously pluted with carcinogic PCB's for generations and no body in St Clair Shores can figure out where coming from and only now being remedied after residential lawsuits. And what about the beaches like at Blossom Heath? Aren't St Clair Shores beaches always closed due to pollution?
I would not be bragging on St Clair Shores as the epitome of good water
management if I lived there.

Nice try at a "Red Herring"...

That's NOT part of the Detroit Water & Sewage Department... but the EPA... they think that possibly DTE Energy [[or someone else?) may have buried some PCB laden transformers near Harper and Bon Brae, and they're leaching into the soil and groundwater. All the remedial efforts by the "federal government" over $6 million of EVERYONE's federal taxpayer dollars have been for naught in preventing the discharges from getting into the storm [[not sewer) drains.

And as for the beaches.. blaming SCS for not fixing the problem makes as much sense as blaming SW Detroit for not fixing the problem of being able to swim near Zug Island... the problems are upstream.

Also, in my comments, I only refer to their "inept" public service problems. If they can't handle something as simple as billing... what does that say about them handling the truly complex issues??

[kraig]

If you're looking for the judge to dictate the day-to-day operation of the system then you will be disappointed. The judge isn't going to get into the details of every step of the operation of the system; he's not going to dictate which equipment the city buys or who they hire or when they work; he's working his way up the chain of events to deal with it at the top.

Where is the pollution? At the WWTP.
Where in the system is it coming from? The WWTP.
What is the break down in the system? Specifically: Belt filter presses, centrifuges, incinerators, conveyors. Generally: Aged equipment, poor or deferred maintenance, lack of qualified personnel, lack of training, an expensive and protracted procurement process.

The judge doesn't need to dictate day-to-day activities. But he should dictate what DWSD is expected to do to clean up and then prevent the pollution. That's not in his order.

[kraig]

The environmental issue is in the hands of the federal judge who has the authoritarian oversight of DWSD. Therefore, he can manage it as he deems fit.

And what he's deemed fit is an inadequate plan presented by the Root Cause Committee. So what's your point?

[Goose]

Why should I or other Detroit citizens be forced to pay for something that we can't even control,

EXACTLY, and just so we are on the same page and not being hypocritical...

why should I or other citizens [[the 53%) be forced to pay for something that we can't even control [[welfare recipients).....

[MikeM]

The judge doesn't need to dictate day-to-day activities. But he should dictate what DWSD is expected to do to clean up and then prevent the pollution. That's not in his order.

The department knows what it needs to do but is unable to do it for various reasons. Those reasons, and proposed resolutions, were presented to the judge. That's in his order.

And what he's deemed fit is an inadequate plan presented by the Root Cause Committee.

Seems like you have an issue with where the blame is being directed. Can you give an example of how or what the judge should have ordered?

[English]

EXACTLY, and just so we are on the same page and not being hypocritical...

why should I or other citizens [[the 53%) be forced to pay for something that we can't even control [[welfare recipients).....

No. See, for instance:

http://thinkprogress.org/special/201...taxes-in-ever/

...if you look at state and local taxes, the working poor actually pay a higher percentage of their income in these taxes in every state except for Vermont. In “Alabama, for example, low-income families [[which make less than $13,000) pay 11 percent of their income in state and local taxes, while those making more than $229,000 pay just 4 percent.”

But I wouldn't want to interrupt the tit for tat. Please, carry on telling me why we should regionalize the water, but NOT regionalize DPS or transit.

*crickets*

[Jimaz]

...why should I or other citizens [[the 53%) be forced to pay for something that we can't even control [[welfare recipients).....

Why do you hate banks?!

[kraig]

The department knows what it needs to do but is unable to do it for various reasons. Those reasons, and proposed resolutions, were presented to the judge. That's in his order.



Seems like you have an issue with where the blame is being directed. Can you give an example of how or what the judge should have ordered?

I'll do you one better. Here's what a real consent decree looks like.

http://www.dnrec.delaware.gov/SiteCo...t%20Decree.pdf

As you can see, starting from page eleven it gets very descriptive and very particular.

[ferntruth]

If you don't like the way Detroit runs the water dept., than pay for and build your own.

Just feel free to disconnect the main line at your city's limit at any time.

Why? When it's easier to just take over the existing system?
Just another city jewel being stolen by the evil suburbs, blah, blah, blah.....

[Detroitnerd]

But I wouldn't want to interrupt the tit for tat. Please, carry on telling me why we should regionalize the water, but NOT regionalize DPS or transit.

*crickets*

Brava, English!