Saving Detroit - TheCall Detroit 11.11.11 Ford Field

**softailrider** · November-10-11, 03:39 AM

Originally Posted by 1953

I anticipate that no one will show up for this event, since 11.11.11 is National Corduroy Day.

http://corduroyclub.com/

Yeah but, it's been too warm to break out the corduroy pants. Who wants to wear corduroy when the temp has been in the 60's??

**Dexlin** · November-10-11, 03:52 AM

Lowell, did you honestly not know what this event was about before you advertised it [[which is exactly what you did)? Seems to me that this was probably something better to ignore unless someone else here brought it up.

**Lowell** · November-10-11, 07:18 AM

No advertisement on my part; this is a very Detroit-related issue. If tens thousands descend upon one of the largest Muslim-populated metros in the US to listen to a pastor talk about the rising tide of Islam and the fate of Detroit while spending millions of dollars in our fair city it raises several interesting issues and has many facets.

Like any convention, it offers a significant economic impact potential. It also begs the question of does the potential controversy surrounding the event stimulate a reaction, as it seems to be already, that could possibly spin out of control and create economic and marketing loss? In other words is dealing with the 'devil' worth the rewards he offers and something to be further pursued for economic gain? We do need all the business we can get after all.

For better or worse, our constitution gives voice to these groups. Do we want their money or not?

**Detroit Stylin** · November-10-11, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

There are already thousands of churches in Detroit. I counted a few dozen [[now abandoned) storefront churches on Conner between I-94 and Mt. Oliver cemetery once. I see all those bumper-stickers that say " I lift Detroit in prayer." I think God is not praised by all of it. I am of the heritage that says faith without works is dead. Detroiters need to clean up and need to raise their children and give them better homes and higher aspirations. Prayers without works [[ living and acting with personal and civic standards) is worthless. And don't tell me that all the prayer people do have standards. Those are the people that keep excusing that scammer Kilpatrick because they love to hear how he prays.

I agree wholeheartedly...

**Dexlin** · November-11-11, 04:28 AM

EDIT: Forget about it. Really not even worth the reply.

Ravine · November-11-11, 05:21 AM

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

I'm always weary of overly passionate religious folk that gather people in masses. I mean, unless he's doing it to get loads money you can't really say anything against him.

But hey, if it saves Detroit, I'm all for it.

I'm really hoping that an overdose of facetiousness went sailing right over my downward-looking head, because I'd hate to think that there was an atomic particle of sincerity in that post.
Or, maybe, like I was, you were a fan of Norm Crosby.

**Zacha341** · November-11-11, 06:27 AM

No comment re. the Islamic aspect. But opinions vary regarding abortion, especially as applied and utilized within poorer urban areas. To some this is a crisis and I support their voice to express this opinion in the public forum.

Originally Posted by Pam

I don't think Islam or abortion has anything to do with Detroit's or the nation's crisis.

Ravine · November-11-11, 06:34 AM

I just knew that if I listened in on some of those clips, I would hear some bloated hyena repetitively pronounce "humble" without sounding the "h" at the beginning.
Sure enough.

**Zacha341** · November-11-11, 06:41 AM

I hear you, I just say don't tell me all the prayer people DON'T have standards! LOL!

Indeed the issues and criticisms you raise have merit, but what is forgotten is that these issues are of concern, discussed and debated 'within' the faith, not just the detractors [[and may indeed be part of this event)! And the more discussion towards solutions the merrier. Hypocrisy [[which IS not 'exclusive' to the religious minded), lack of tangible works, vanity, standards, and raising standards ala quality of life and of course sincere prayers will hopefully BE part of this event.

I would not assume that these issues are 'not' be on the minds of at least 'some' participants and as topics brought forth at the event.

Originally Posted by SWMAP

There are already thousands of churches in Detroit. I counted a few dozen [[now abandoned) storefront churches on Conner between I-94 and Mt. Oliver cemetery once. I see all those bumper-stickers that say " I lift Detroit in prayer." I think God is not praised by all of it. I am of the heritage that says faith without works is dead. Detroiters need to clean up and need to raise their children and give them better homes and higher aspirations. Prayers without works [[ living and acting with personal and civic standards) is worthless. And don't tell me that all the prayer people do have standards. Those are the people that keep excusing that scammer Kilpatrick because they love to hear how he prays.

**Barbara Nadel** · November-11-11, 07:24 AM

Good luck with this, Detroit! I must say I always have a very 'European' response to such events. From Ireland to Istanbul most of us shudder when religious extremism breaks out. The horrors of the former Yugoslavia are still fresh in our minds and religion was used as an excuse for those. Live and let live? But then where do you draw the line on free speech? My government here in the UK has just banned a group of Islamic extremists because they threatened to burn poppies at our Armistice Day remembrances today. My ancestors fought in World War 1 and 2 and I hate to see poppies disrespected in this way. It makes me feel sick. But do these people also have a right to their opinions and feelings? I have no answer.

Ravine · November-11-11, 08:04 AM

Barbara, I am curious. Please explain the significance of poppy-burning.

**Pam** · November-11-11, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by Ravine

Barbara, I am curious. Please explain the significance of poppy-burning.

Found it. Google is our friend.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...y-protest.html

Muslims clashed with police after burning a large poppy in protest at Britain's wars in Iraq and Afghanistan which was timed to coincide with Armistice Day's two-minute silence.

Ravine · November-11-11, 08:55 AM

P-A-M!! P-A-M!!
[[pumps fists into air)

**animatedmartian** · November-11-11, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by Ravine

I'm really hoping that an overdose of facetiousness went sailing right over my downward-looking head, because I'd hate to think that there was an atomic particle of sincerity in that post.
Or, maybe, like I was, you were a fan of Norm Crosby.

LOL.

Looking back it does feel naive to have any benefit of the doubt. Though my gut feeling was always that this is just a sham.

**Lowell** · November-11-11, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by Ravine

Barbara, I am curious. Please explain the significance of poppy-burning.

If you turn on CBC 9 or BBC right now you will see all the announcers wearing paper red poppies on their lapels in remembrance of the end of World War I and veteran's days. They used to show up here too, but it is largely a Canadian and Brit thing as they suffered far more in that war.

I believe their legend arose from red poppies ironically flowering in the devastated mud and cratered no-man's land when springs came along the Western Front in World War I. Being bright red they came to symbolize the blood of soldiers mixed with hope and new life defying death.

**SWMAP** · November-11-11, 09:53 AM

Poppies are symbolic of the millions of soldiers who lost their lives in WW I. The cemetaries were seeded with poppies and they continue to bloom today. Taken from a poem by a promising Canadian poet/physician who died in the war theatre of pneumonia just as the war was ending:

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

**justanotherboy** · November-11-11, 10:02 AM

It has nothing to do with Islam. Why does Christians praying for healing and revival and whatever else they want to do worry Muslims? Give me a break.

Maybe if they cleaned up their own religion, they wouldn't have to worry about some Detroiter praying.

http://thereligionofpeace.com/

**EastsideAl** · November-11-11, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by justanotherboy

It has nothing to do with Islam. Why does Christians praying for healing and revival and whatever else they want to do worry Muslims? Give me a break.

Maybe if they cleaned up their own religion, they wouldn't have to worry about some Detroiter praying.

Ummmm, did you not read the first post in this thread? Makes it pretty clear that some of this so-called outpouring of love is aimed directly at hating Islam and Muslims.

As for that site you posted, that's like taking today's convention of hateful money-grubbing idiocy as being representative of all Christians. Islam is a diffuse religion with no central hierarchy, dozens of sects, and as many points of view as there are mosques, so exactly who is supposed to run this "cleaning up" you speak of? It's a bit like asking the Pope to rein in Pat Robertson.

Ravine · November-11-11, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by justanotherboy

It has nothing to do with Islam. Why does Christians praying for healing and revival and whatever else they want to do worry Muslims? Give me a break.

Maybe if they cleaned up their own religion, they wouldn't have to worry about some Detroiter praying.

http://thereligionofpeace.com/

Say what you will. Having looked into their site and watched a few of the video-clips, I am still hoping that my flesh stops crawling, sometime soon.
And the site at the business end of your link had the same effect on me.

**Detroitnerd** · November-11-11, 01:32 PM

"This is a strange place, and extraordinary place, and interesting. There is nothing resembling it at home. The people are all insane, the other animals are all insane, the earth is insane, Nature itself is insane. Man is a marvelous curiosity. When he is at his very very best he is a sort of low grade nickel-plated angel; at is worst he is unspeakable, unimaginable; and first and last and all the time he is a sarcasm. Yet he blandly and in all sincerity calls himself the 'noblest work of God.' This is the truth I am telling you. And this is not a new idea with him, he has talked it through all the ages, and believed it. Believed it, and found nobody among all his race to laugh at it." --Excerpt, "Satan's Letter," from Mark Twain's "Letters from the Earth"

Ravine · November-11-11, 01:48 PM

I'm sure the Callites will "pray for" Twain.

**maxx** · November-11-11, 02:15 PM

RE: Poppies in Flanders fields. "Marieke" by Jacques Brel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tewPJ...eature=related

Ay, Marieke, Marieke

The Flanders sun burns the sky

Since you are gone

Ay, Marieke, Marieke

In Flanders field the poppies die

Since you are gone

Zonder liefde, warme liefde

Waait de wind de stomme wind

Zonder leifde, warme liefde

Weent de zee de grijze zee
Lyrics www.allthelyrics.com/lyrics/jacques_brel_is_alive_and_well_and_living_in_paris _soundtrack/

Zonder liefde, warme leifde

Lijdt het licht het donk're licht

En schuurt het zand o ver mijn land

Mijn platte land mijn Vlanderland

Ay, Marieke, Marieke

The stars look down, so soon, so soon

The day is done

Ay, Marieke, Marieke

The Flanders moon won't light your way

The day is done

**Detroitnerd** · November-11-11, 02:18 PM

I love Flanders Field's first stanza and hate the rest of it. Much better to consider "Grass"

Pile the bodies high at Austerlitz and Waterloo.
Shovel them under and let me work -

I am the grass; I cover all.

And pile them high at Gettysburg
And pile them high at Ypres and Verdun.
Shovel them under and let me work.
Two years, ten years, and passengers ask the conductor:

What place is this?
Where are we now? I am the grass.
Let me work.

**SWMAP** · November-11-11, 02:37 PM

Both beautiful. Jacques Brel 's work captures the bitter-sweet reflective mood of western Europe as it contemplated the horrible sacrifice that had been exacted. I remember when Jacques Brel was a big thing here. Can't remember, though, where it was. As to Grass - Detroitnerd, you are right. Much more evocative. But the Muslim protestors could hardly burn grass in mockery.

And a note about cultural literacy: did Ravine not know about poppies?

**EastsideAl** · November-11-11, 03:02 PM

I'm old enough to remember the days when WW1 veterans still roamed the earth [[including my grandfather) and we had the poppies right here in the U.S. Back in the deep dark '60s we all brought a dime or quarter or two to our Detroit Public School in November on "Poppy Day" to put in the can to get our paper and wire "poppy," which we would proudly wear through our buttonholes for the next several days even though we had only the vaguest notion what they symbolized.

I believe the passing out of poppies pretty much ended here when most of the WW1 veterans began to die off. And the memory of the poppies' meaning and even their existence pretty much died off here with those veterans too, so I wouldn't expect anyone younger than, say, 45 to know about them. But you certainly still see them over in Canada this time of year.