Uniroyal property construction

[wolverine]

No kiddin the more public green space the better. The more attractive the vistas you can make from Jefferson to the River the more development you can attract for N of Jefferson. Sort of kills two birds with one stone.

Where it gets rough is you need some development dollars in order to justify the clean-up, Its definitely a tricky project.

The city can't take care of its existing parks. Therefore the city should not plan for more large open green space. Continue the riverwalk, connect with public easements, and develop the hell out of the rest of it.

I'm shocked you'd mention more greenspace. The last time I was in Detroit I saw numerous parks with overgrown weeds and deteriorating playground equipment.

As far as attracting development it's not just views. Indeed they make development more attractive, but the rest has to do with the neighborhood desirability....restaurants, retail, schools, built environment etc. If Jefferson can achieve a sense of place...which would be challenging, it may be successful in attracting more density northward.

[corktownyuppie]

My wish list...I hope they build place that:

[[1) ...will sell. First priority. We don't need a failed development.

[[2) ...is easy to secure. Not saying the place needs to be Fort Knox/Harbortown...but having only 2 or 3 points of entry rather than a traditional "grid" would be preferable, IMHO. If the area *does* need to be gated, all efforts must be made to have visibility of the development from outside, rather than just a 6' brick wall

[[3) ...is walkable to the Riverwalk and to other areas of downtown

[[4) ...is managed by a resident association, which will likely be more able to keep up with resident needs than general levels of city service.

[Gistok]

The city can't take care of its existing parks. Therefore the city should not plan for more large open green space. Continue the riverwalk, connect with public easements, and develop the hell out of the rest of it.

I'm shocked you'd mention more greenspace. The last time I was in Detroit I saw numerous parks with overgrown weeds and deteriorating playground equipment.

As far as attracting development it's not just views. Indeed they make development more attractive, but the rest has to do with the neighborhood desirability....restaurants, retail, schools, built environment etc. If Jefferson can achieve a sense of place...which would be challenging, it may be successful in attracting more density northward.

I can't speak for DP... but I think what he meant was that it would be nice if the Belle Isle Bridge approach had green space on BOTH sides of it, and not just on the left side [[Gabriel Richard Park). There's plenty of space to accomplish this. To have develpment right up to and abutting the bridge would not be desireable.

DetroitNerd... wouldn't it be easier for you to make 1 post and tell us WHAT you would like to see there, than to make 2 posts and tell us what you WOULD NOT like to see there??

[wolverine]

I can't speak for DP... but I think what he meant was that it would be nice if the Belle Isle Bridge approach had green space on BOTH sides of it, and not just on the left side [[Gabriel Richard Park). There's plenty of space to accomplish this. To have develpment right up to and abutting the bridge would not be desireable.

DetroitNerd... wouldn't it be easier for you to make 1 post and tell us WHAT you would like to see there, than to make 2 posts and tell us what you WOULD NOT like to see there??

But should there be? Park space should be useful space. Not just something nice to look at from a high-rise balcony.

Why not development abutting the bridge? There's already a 150' strip of grass near the bridge. Heck, better if the park space on both sides was gone. Imagine commercial and residential buildings flanking both sides of the approach creating a sort of "gateway." It's this sort of impressive urbanity that has been entirely lost in Detroit with green space being a sad substitute for improvement.

[antongast]

The Uniroyal site is bordered on the west by Mt. Elliott Park, which is nice enough, but underutilized. It's bordered on the east by Richard Park, which is nice enough, but underutilized. It's bordered on the south by a channel that separates it from Belle Isle. I'm having a hard time imagining a set of circumstances in which the best use of that land would be another park. Whatever problems that neighborhood might have, I think it's safe to say that they aren't caused by a lack of parks.

[DetroitPlanner]

I can't speak for DP... but I think what he meant was that it would be nice if the Belle Isle Bridge approach had green space on BOTH sides of it, and not just on the left side [[Gabriel Richard Park). There's plenty of space to accomplish this. To have develpment right up to and abutting the bridge would not be desireable.

DetroitNerd... wouldn't it be easier for you to make 1 post and tell us WHAT you would like to see there, than to make 2 posts and tell us what you WOULD NOT like to see there??

Let me reframe this a bit. At one time Chicago's Lakefront was also heavllily industrialized. Now if you look at Lincoln and Grant Park you see thats W of Lakeshore or Michigan is highly developed while the water side is open space. This was not done overnight.

While in college I ran across old articles about a plan to do exactly this from the Belle Isle Bridge to Downtown while researching another topic at the DPL. Coleman A Young Started the ball rolling when he developed Chene, St. Aubin, and Mt Elliot Parks. Now granted, there was a hiccup in this development when Harbourtown was approved. Parkland can be seen as an attractor for development. Even in miniture examples of this include that most of the homes facing Rouge Park are in much better shape than the homes several blocks from it.

[swingline]

Let me reframe this a bit. At one time Chicago's Lakefront was also heavllily industrialized. Now if you look at Lincoln and Grant Park you see thats W of Lakeshore or Michigan is highly developed while the water side is open space. This was not done overnight.

While in college I ran across old articles about a plan to do exactly this from the Belle Isle Bridge to Downtown while researching another topic at the DPL. Coleman A Young Started the ball rolling when he developed Chene, St. Aubin, and Mt Elliot Parks. Now granted, there was a hiccup in this development when Harbourtown was approved. Parkland can be seen as an attractor for development. Even in miniture examples of this include that most of the homes facing Rouge Park are in much better shape than the homes several blocks from it.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, Planner. If you're advocating for a Lakeshore Drive model for East Jefferson development, well, it's dreamy but completely infeasible. There's no point in spending any kind of time pursuing that model. It worked for Chicago, great. It won't work on the East Jefferson corridor with its substantially lower densities, property values and household incomes, not to mention the already existing abundance of riverfront parkland.

Government and the non-profit sector have done their share with the Riverwalk and hopefully now a Uniroyal cleanup. Perhaps now the marketplace can begin to fill in with urban walkable projects that can transform the area into an upscale taxpaying waterfront neighborhood. This area should generate more residents and taxes, not more grass to cut.

[DetroitPlanner]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, Planner. If you're advocating for a Lakeshore Drive model for East Jefferson development, well, it's dreamy but completely infeasible. There's no point in spending any kind of time pursuing that model. It worked for Chicago, great. It won't work on the East Jefferson corridor with its substantially lower densities, property values and household incomes, not to mention the already existing abundance of riverfront parkland.

Government and the non-profit sector have done their share with the Riverwalk and hopefully now a Uniroyal cleanup. Perhaps now the marketplace can begin to fill in with urban walkable projects that can transform the area into an upscale taxpaying waterfront neighborhood. This area should generate more residents and taxes, not more grass to cut.

This take a long time to accomplish. Windsor has done this though it is only in the last 20 years that all the land has been assembled. Given that Detroit has lots of land available for development, does it not make sense to use our assets wisely and build upon a nice wide part of the Riverwalk and establish playfields, gardens, etcetera and develop N of Jefferson in a dense fashion? Won't people want to live where they can see or be by the a riverfront park and have other amenities such as transit? Detroit does have a tool in its toolbox that Daniel Burnham never had when he developed Lincoln Park. The Riverwalk is managed by a nonprofit.

[wolverine]

This take a long time to accomplish. Windsor has done this though it is only in the last 20 years that all the land has been assembled. Given that Detroit has lots of land available for development, does it not make sense to use our assets wisely and build upon a nice wide part of the Riverwalk and establish playfields, gardens, etcetera and develop N of Jefferson in a dense fashion? Won't people want to live where they can see or be by the a riverfront park and have other amenities such as transit? Detroit does have a tool in its toolbox that Daniel Burnham never had when he developed Lincoln Park. The Riverwalk is managed by a nonprofit.

The majority of Chicago's heavy lakefront Residential density is NOT concentrated around parks, but only the lake. Grant Park and Millennium Park are not residential districts. They are primarily hotel and office. Most other development is fairly close to the lake with minimal park space. In fact, there's a proposal right now to rebuild a large section of lakeshore drive and move it further out into the lake, and fill everything in between with lagoon and parks. The proposal is receiving strong opposition since residents don't want to look at a park, they want to see water only. With the exception of Hyde Park and Southshore, the majority of the southside has failed to achieve any spectacular highrise residential development, despite that it has tons of greenspace bordering the lakefront...mostly unusued.

Now, around Lincoln Park and edgewater there is park space, but much of it is programmed with something....a Zoo, a Golf Course, a Conservatory. On the Near Southside, Soldier Field, McCormick Place, and the museum campus.

The parkspace is there to provide circulation between all of this and connect the lake. I find it unlikely Detroit would have these components when you already have them. Maybe they could build lagoons, but building open green space? Why? Rebuild the street grid and connect development close up to the lake. It's supposed to be an urban park....as in a riverwalk.

You already have an area that could be Detroit's "living room" like Millennium Park is to Chicago....Hart Plaza


Uptown-Edgewater-Ravenswood

[DetroitPlanner]

The parkspace is there to provide circulation between all of this and connect the lake. I find it unlikely Detroit would have these components when you already have them. Maybe they could build lagoons, but building open green space? Why? Rebuild the street grid and connect development close up to the lake. It's supposed to be an urban park....as in a riverwalk.

You already have an area that could be Detroit's "living room" like Millennium Park is to Chicago....Hart Plaza


Uptown-Edgewater-Ravenswood

That area is what 5 miles N of downtown? Its nearly Evanston!

The majority of Chicago's waterfront is a park. Why settle for a small concrete bunker like Hart Plaza? Why settle for mediocrity?

To paraphrase:

We only have one shot, why blow it? - Eminem

Make no small plans, they will not stir ones souls - Dan Burnham
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_JWo3cINbY
http://www.cpdit01.com/resources/pla...009-145000.pdf
http://www.cpdit01.com/resources/pla...pment.history/

[Detroitnerd]

DetroitNerd... wouldn't it be easier for you to make 1 post and tell us WHAT you would like to see there, than to make 2 posts and tell us what you WOULD NOT like to see there??

I was in a hurry yesterday and shooting from the hip a bit, but I think I said what I'd like to see. I'd like to see the street grid extended, human-scale lots, etc. Sorry, I'll try to express myself more clearly and succinctly next time.