Shoppes At Gateway

**corktownyuppie** · May-17-12, 12:06 AM

I'm reading through the entirety of this thread an y'all crack me up. "I'll believe it when I see it"?!?! You guys do realize that "seeing it" is like step 431 out of a 431-step process, right?

It's like the M-1 Rail, or the Book Cadillac, or Capitol Park, or Broderick Tower, or the David Whitney Building, or ABC, or XYZ. These projects are GIGANTIC in scope, with lots of moving parts.

I get the desire to avoid being a head-in-the-clouds pollyanna, but if you let yourself get jaded, then how can we ever accomplish hard things? Remember that everything we're trying to do right now...save the city...restructure government...streamline operations...improve services...redevelop property...etc. These are all gigantic undertakings, most of which require multiple parties to all simultaneously come together in a highly orchestrated ballet of balancing interests, good timing, and fearless leadership.

There's a lot that's out of our control as pawns in this whole game. But one thing that we can do is inform ourselves as to what normal progress is and reserving judgment until you have a good understanding of all the facts involved.

The problem with the collective attitude in the city now is that when something gets pushed back, doesn't go as planned, disappoints with their results...the reflex response is that someone out there is trying to screw us. And, YES, sometimes that's true...and corruption, graft, etc. are really enemies that we have to combat.

But other times, the enemy isn't a person, or a race, or another city, or another political party. Sometimes the enemy is that THIS SHIT IS COMPLICATED AND THERE ARE NO EASY, SIMPLE ANSWERS TO COMPLEX PUZZLES.

Like I said, there's not a lot we can do as pawns in the game. But one thing that would go a long way is be able to better discern whether we're getting screwed or whether we're making slow progress on an uphill obstacle course. Hint: Though there exceptions, more often than not it's the 2nd

Because every moment we spend blaming "X" for how difficult stuff is, we're not spending that moment on trying get from step 34 to step 35 on the 742-step process of solving problem "Y".

[/endrant]

**313WX** · May-17-12, 12:37 AM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

I'm reading through the entirety of this thread an y'all crack me up. "I'll believe it when I see it"?!?! You guys do realize that "seeing it" is like step 431 out of a 431-step process, right?

It's like the M-1 Rail, or the Book Cadillac, or Capitol Park, or Broderick Tower, or the David Whitney Building, or ABC, or XYZ. These projects are GIGANTIC in scope, with lots of moving parts.

I get the desire to avoid being a head-in-the-clouds pollyanna, but if you let yourself get jaded, then how can we ever accomplish hard things? Remember that everything we're trying to do right now...save the city...restructure government...streamline operations...improve services...redevelop property...etc. These are all gigantic undertakings, most of which require multiple parties to all simultaneously come together in a highly orchestrated ballet of balancing interests, good timing, and fearless leadership.

There's a lot that's out of our control as pawns in this whole game. But one thing that we can do is inform ourselves as to what normal progress is and reserving judgment until you have a good understanding of all the facts involved.

The problem with the collective attitude in the city now is that when something gets pushed back, doesn't go as planned, disappoints with their results...the reflex response is that someone out there is trying to screw us. And, YES, sometimes that's true...and corruption, graft, etc. are really enemies that we have to combat.

But other times, the enemy isn't a person, or a race, or another city, or another political party. Sometimes the enemy is that THIS SHIT IS COMPLICATED AND THERE ARE NO EASY, SIMPLE ANSWERS TO COMPLEX PUZZLES.

Like I said, there's not a lot we can do as pawns in the game. But one thing that would go a long way is be able to better discern whether we're getting screwed or whether we're making slow progress on an uphill obstacle course. Hint: Though there exceptions, more often than not it's the 2nd

Because every moment we spend blaming "X" for how difficult stuff is, we're not spending that moment on trying get from step 34 to step 35 on the 742-step process of solving problem "Y".

[/endrant]

You'll just have to accept hat everyone has a different outlook on life.

It's not a matter of being jaded, it's just that everyone has had their own life experiences and they've learned from their experience how they should expect and accept things.

I believe everything in life is pre-destined. What's going to happen is simply going to happen, and you can't really do anything to change it. The problem is we as humans don't know what's pre-destined to happen.

We can only take educated guesses based on our past experiences. For example, if a person has had nothing but negative experiences in their life, they're going to assume the worst of a situation in their life, that way they won't get disappointed if things don't go their way.

**brizee** · May-17-12, 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

I'm reading through the entirety of this thread an y'all crack me up. "I'll believe it when I see it"?!?! You guys do realize that "seeing it" is like step 431 out of a 431-step process, right?

It's like the M-1 Rail...

I get what you were going for...

But I don't think you could have picked a worse example to start with.

**pkbroch** · May-17-12, 08:43 AM

We can all stop calling this center the SHOPPES AT GATEWAY.

They took that sign down and replaced it with at GATEWAY MARKETPLACE. Also there was heavy equipment in there yesterday.

Progress I Hope.

**JBMcB** · May-17-12, 09:09 AM

Groundbreaking ceremony today at noon. Yesterday it looked like there were actual contractors on-site, not just the handful of dirt-pushers that have been there on and off for the last couple of years.

**Hypestyles** · May-17-12, 12:36 PM

... I wonder who are the construction firms involved-- and were there any job announcements in recent months leading up to this-- or any open jobs now? Obviously these won't be permanent jobs-- but in any case, at least this is finally happening.

**hybridy** · May-17-12, 01:52 PM

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...text|FRONTPAGE

Redico Management Inc. is handling construction management. Still disappointed that this is just another strip mall. Long long ago this project was supposed to be "upscale" and include fast casual/sit down retaurants and mid-range stores. Not surprised where the tenant list stands with the state of city and local economy. Hope this doesn't end up hurting nearby property values down the line.

-Meijer
-Marshalls
-K&G Superstore
-McDonald's [[even though theres one at 7 mile and woodward)
-PNC Bank

How quickly we've forgotten.
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...ll+moves+ahead

Plans call for about 40 shops, each between 5,000 and 10,000 square feet, offering "medium to upscale discount" shopping, he said.
There will be no dollar stores in the mix. Nor will there be a central food court or fast-food outlets. Instead, the mall will offer casual family dining along the lines of Red Lobster or Applebee's, Schrott said.

**gthomas** · May-17-12, 07:36 PM

http://gatewaymarketplacedetroit.com/

**canuck** · May-17-12, 07:51 PM

Well if it brings jobs to Detroit, I'm all for it.

**Wheels** · May-17-12, 07:58 PM

There will be no dollar stores in the mix. Nor will there be a central food court or fast-food outlets. Instead, the mall will offer casual family dining along the lines of Red Lobster or Applebee's, Schrott said.
"We're very protective of the community. The people who live there are going to be our customers," Schrott said.
"We don't want to put in anything that will be offensive to the people who live or shop there."
The mall will draw customers from the surrounding Detroit neighborhoods of Sherwood Forest and Palmer Woods, as well as from the suburbs of Hazel Park and Ferndale and other areas of southern Oakland County, he said.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz1vB7IPsUl

I guess this was written before there were squatters in Palmer Woods.

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · May-17-12, 09:39 PM

site plan.

http://media.mlive.com/business/detr...fa208752d8.jpg

**Squirtle** · May-18-12, 12:10 AM

As much as I despise strip malls [[demotes walking, parking lots inefficient use of land, etc), we are really not in a position right now to pick and choose who we let develop our vacant land. Meijer's, Marshalls, and the other tenants stepping up to the plate is truly impressive.

Today we take what we can get, be thankful that we got it, and hope that tomorrow we can choose a greater opportunity.

That said, it still sucks to see this not be an actual walkable shopping district like it was supposed to be.

**corktownyuppie** · May-18-12, 06:54 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

You'll just have to accept hat everyone has a different outlook on life.

It's not a matter of being jaded, it's just that everyone has had their own life experiences and they've learned from their experience how they should expect and accept things.

I believe everything in life is pre-destined. What's going to happen is simply going to happen, and you can't really do anything to change it. The problem is we as humans don't know what's pre-destined to happen.

We can only take educated guesses based on our past experiences. For example, if a person has had nothing but negative experiences in their life, they're going to assume the worst of a situation in their life, that way they won't get disappointed if things don't go their way.

I'm not hating on anyone for basing their worldview on their past experience. Certainly that's not just understandable, but it's the generally accepted way of going through the world.

I'm challenging the community to question their past experiences and ask whether or not their worldview makes the community more effective or less effective at creating the social change needed to propel us to a better city.

At the heart of all personal change -- or cultural change when you aggregate all the changes at a personal level -- will require an introspection of our system of beliefs and re-interpretation of past experiences. For example, if you grew up witnessing your mother being beaten by your father, it's normal for a child to believe that she doesn't deserve any better. Or for a son to believe that violence is an acceptable response to anger. Or -- on the opposite side -- that anger is never an acceptable response to anything. In all 3 cases, the child lacks the cognitive ability to understand what is happening and is very prone to learning the wrong lessons...which will come back to haunt them as adults if not dealt with.

In some ways I think we are in similar shoes. Our city is in a serious void of leadership. Not just at the top levels of government, but almost at a core, cultural level. We're in desperate need of people who are able to set a vision of normal, healthy relationships. Effective strategies of conflict resolution. Teaching that in the long term, the skills of survival are better based on intellect and communication, not on power or force. Based on disciplined effort and growth, not on discouragement and victim-hood.

In other words, we need to shift our mentality to say, "We believe in a vision we can not see. But we are going to persistently work toward it, learn from our mistakes, and keep building." In other words...we need leadership.

I understand that such a shift in consciousness might literally take 2 generations to come about. But I'm putting my stake in the ground and saying that this is the picture we need to move toward instead of constantly looking back to how things used to be and lamenting that things are not that way anymore.

The waves are coming...let's learn to swim and built lots of boats! I know that this post will likely subject me to ridicule and criticism. So be it. I've met too many great Detroiters in my life who have been hard-working leaders in their own lives. Too many of them grew up and were in a hurry to escape. But they are starting to return to their roots, and we've now demonstrated that we can be a community that nurtures future leaders. Let's encourage their efforts rather than standing on the sidelines with our arms crossed, angry about the world. And maybe one day we can even step out on the playing field and join them in re-inventing who we are.

**DetroitPlanner** · May-18-12, 06:58 AM

Squirtle, Strip malls need not be the bane of your existence. There are lots of strip malls that are well landscaped, include transit options and provide pathway connections to nearby neighborhoods. It is rare to see these in the mid-west, but in other parts of the country you will see these. We need to force planning commissioners to vacation where these exist so they can begin to demand these things of developers.

This site however, has its best pedestrian connections with the neighborhoods of Ferndale, which lies on the opposite side of a huge trunkline. In recent talks with MDOT I've learned that there are going to address issues that will allow for that pedestrian connections. On the Detroit side it is surrounded by the closed fairgrounds and a cemetary.

**Novine** · May-18-12, 07:19 AM

"Today we take what we can get, be thankful that we got it, and hope that tomorrow we can choose a greater opportunity."

This is the kind of mindset that guarantees you won't get greater opportunities in the future. If you don't have any standards now, don't expect to attract future development that will conform to higher standards. That's why you generally don't see decent looking and functioning standards in Detroit and surrounding communities. We accept mediocre development because we're willing to take what anyone has to offer because we don't think we have any choice.

**hybridy** · May-18-12, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by Novine

"Today we take what we can get, be thankful that we got it, and hope that tomorrow we can choose a greater opportunity."

This is the kind of mindset that guarantees you won't get greater opportunities in the future. If you don't have any standards now, don't expect to attract future development that will conform to higher standards. That's why you generally don't see decent looking and functioning standards in Detroit and surrounding communities. We accept mediocre development because we're willing to take what anyone has to offer because we don't think we have any choice.

Can I get a HELL YES?!

**hybridy** · May-18-12, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast

site plan.

http://media.mlive.com/business/detr...fa208752d8.jpg

So McDonald's will be at the corner of 8 Mile & Woodward...glorious! Parking out front and a fast food joint as the gatway to the city. And I'm sure no one had the forethought to force retailers to not put up obnoxious monumental signage 30' in the air. Classy touch. Welcome to Detroit!

**Detroitdave** · May-18-12, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

This project happening is about as likely as finding Jimmy Hoffa.

Hey 313WX get ready to eat your words :-) would you like catsup
with that ? LOL just kidding :-) of BTW the found Jimmy Hoffa :-)

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · May-18-12, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by hybridy

So McDonald's will be at the corner of 8 Mile & Woodward...glorious! Parking out front and a fast food joint as the gatway to the city. And I'm sure no one had the forethought to force retailers to not put up obnoxious monumental signage 30' in the air. Classy touch. Welcome to Detroit!

It'll probably look nicer than most of 8 Mile Road.

**Hypestyles** · May-18-12, 12:46 PM

...another McDonald's? Eh.. I wonder were there proposals from indie restauranteurs, or if there is still room to allow for other types of restaurants-- Indian/south asian, Italian, mediterranean, etc.

..when all of this is finished and up and running.. I wonder how site management is going to handle security, enforcing against loitering/panhandling, and the inevitable neer-do-wells..

[and I presume the Meijer carts will have the magnetic locks on them, as opposed to the ostentatious cages in front of many urban Detroit grocery shops]

**313WX** · May-18-12, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by Hypestyles

[and I presume the Meijer carts will have the magnetic locks on them, as opposed to the ostentatious cages in front of many urban Detroit grocery shops]

Those are the carts the Kroger on 7 Mile and Gratiot had...

**casscorridor** · May-18-12, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by Hypestyles

...another McDonald's? Eh.. I wonder were there proposals from indie restauranteurs, or if there is still room to allow for other types of restaurants-- Indian/south asian, Italian, mediterranean, etc.

Indie restaurants?? In a strip mall on the outskirts of the city? This is a corporate plaza designed with corporate stores in mind, and catering to the demographics of the area. Indie restaurants may already be found in Ferndale but not Applebees.

**corktownyuppie** · May-18-12, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by casscorridor

Indie restaurants?? In a strip mall on the outskirts of the city? This is a corporate plaza designed with corporate stores in mind, and catering to the demographics of the area. Indie restaurants may already be found in Ferndale but not Applebees.

I love the idea of indie restaurants. But they don't usually have the credit necessary to sign the long-term leases developers require to qualify for construction loans.

Think about it from a banker point of view. So you want me to lend you $50MM for construction. But it will be paid back by the lease revenue you generate. Ok, well, who are the tenants going to be? One guy shows up with Walgreens, MCD, Applebees, each who have signed a 7-year lease backed by the entire company and their nationwide revenue. The other guy shows up with 4 independent restaurants, each who have $5,000-$10,000 in a savings account [[if they're lucky).

There are markets for independent restauranteurs, but this isn't gonna be one of them.

**pkbroch** · May-18-12, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by hybridy

So McDonald's will be at the corner of 8 Mile & Woodward...glorious! Parking out front and a fast food joint as the gatway to the city. And I'm sure no one had the forethought to force retailers to not put up obnoxious monumental signage 30' in the air. Classy touch. Welcome to Detroit!

The McDonalds at 7 and Woodward is moving to the Gateway location, the land is being sold. It is supposed to look like the new style ones like the rehab at 13 and Woodward.

What this center need is a DSW warehouse or Famous Footware. A store like this was being negotated with, girls gotta have shoes.