Snyder to propose high-speed bus network to knit Detroit, suburban systems

[canuck]

It's an interesting question, Canuck. If we're so well off - and I am not disputing your ranking - where does all the money go? Our schools are always in financial distress; our roads are awful; our transit is nonexistent. Our tax burden, overall, is probably comparable with other major North American cities [[though I haven't studied this). So since we clearly aren't paying for education or infrastructure, what ARE we paying for?

I think the answer is in the question. It may have to do with how much of the money goes to what instead of something else. The metro is rich, since the auto industry is still a mighty part of the economy, one of the motors that traditionally spurs other development that we now take for granted; like our beloved motorways. Wayne county may be more open to shysters and shifty characters of all sorts, and incompetency because it has become poorer, but it is easy to dismiss the wealth that surrounds it. The large middle class that makes up your metro is having hard time of it, but there is a lot of money around. The problem is not money; it never was, nor will it ever be. If the problem were money; dudes like Hank Ford would never have built the River Rouges of this world.

Detroit aint the only place this happens man, In my city, for every dollar spent on asphalting of streets, there is at least one zloty contributing to someone's cheap liquor and an easy girl.

[ghettopalmetto]

It's an interesting question, Canuck. If we're so well off - and I am not disputing your ranking - where does all the money go? Our schools are always in financial distress; our roads are awful; our transit is nonexistent. Our tax burden, overall, is probably comparable with other major North American cities [[though I haven't studied this). So since we clearly aren't paying for education or infrastructure, what ARE we paying for?

That's not hard to figure out just by looking around. Southeastern Michigan's population hasn't grown one iota in 40 years. But look at all the new roads, schools, and infrastructure that has been built out in the orchards in that time. Look at how much money is spent simultaneously tearing down buildings in the inner city. Add public subsidies for a couple stadiums, and suddenly you're talking about real money. The populace is too geographically spread to even maintain the amount of infrastructure that has been built, and the fiscal state of the cities, counties and state are testament to that.

Money isn't the issue, as much as laziness, xenophobia, parochialism and pure fiscal stupidity. And a more-than-healthy dose of nostalgia for the 1950s certainly dictates a lot of those misguided ideals.

[professorscott]

Amen, Ghettopalmetto.

[313WX]

That's not hard to figure out just by looking around. Southeastern Michigan's population hasn't grown one iota in 40 years. But look at all the new roads, schools, and infrastructure that has been built out in the orchards in that time. Look at how much money is spent simultaneously tearing down buildings in the inner city. Add public subsidies for a couple stadiums, and suddenly you're talking about real money. The populace is too geographically spread to even maintain the amount of infrastructure that has been built, and the fiscal state of the cities, counties and state are testament to that.

Money isn't the issue, as much as laziness, xenophobia, parochialism and pure fiscal stupidity. And a more-than-healthy dose of nostalgia for the 1950s certainly dictates a lot of those misguided ideals.

Exactly. I think this was what canuck was dancing all around, but never actually said in any of his/her posts [[not sure why).

Problem is folks collectively don't want to give up that type of lifestyle. They'd rather let it all crash and burn before doing things to repair this hot mess. It's all about "me me me" not "us us us."

[canuck]

Exactly. I think this was what canuck was dancing all around, but never actually said in any of his/her posts [[not sure why).

Problem is folks collectively don't want to give up that type of lifestyle. They'd rather let it all crash and burn before doing things to repair this hot mess. It's all about "me me me" not "us us us."

To your question; His posts 313WX.

The question remains;

How can a city like Detroit not attain goals such as top of the line transit infrastructure, not reverse the trend of attrition and dishevelment, and not restore the business density in the center, and main corridors?

How can it not do these things, in view of the fact that wealth does exist in the region and that world-class universities and institutions can provide leadership globally. Don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting that Detroit can't look elsewhere for guidance and inspiration, I am suggesting that there is a critical mass of experts in the region that should take on the beast and win. The urban planning faculties for instance have not been solid enough to take on the fight outside academia. Why the timidity and sluggishness? Couldn't they have been more involved in helping solve the city's problems? Were they at all interested?

It is not too late, but folks in the acadenic world do have a responsibilty in being more forthcoming with solutions, I think.

[iheartthed]

It's an interesting question, Canuck. If we're so well off - and I am not disputing your ranking - where does all the money go? Our schools are always in financial distress; our roads are awful; our transit is nonexistent. Our tax burden, overall, is probably comparable with other major North American cities [[though I haven't studied this). So since we clearly aren't paying for education or infrastructure, what ARE we paying for?

Canuck is right, Detroit has a larger GDP than Madrid, Sydney, Barcelona, Beijing, Montreal, Rome, Berlin... Well, pretty most major metropolises on Earth: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_GDP. It's inconceivable to me that Detroit is truly too broke to afford a transit system. It seems to me that the problem is a failure of leadership and misplaced priorities.

[Zacha341]

ROTFL! Take the famous DDOT Hamilton from Northland to downtown. It tends to be one of the speedier runs, especially seeing as how there are few lights and bus stops along Hamilton [[tumble-weed-and-broken-bottle) Rd. It hauls fast down Seven mile too before getting to Hamilton. Talk about fast....

I took it lately and we got downtown from Southfield [[Northland) in about 20 minutes, the driver weaving in and out of traffic, barely slowing to pick up passengers... The Imperial Express hauls but too having the advantage of using the Lodge for part of its run... Will more buses be using the freeways? LOL!

Who the hell wants to be on a speeding bus?!?!?!

[Zacha341]

You want it to 'speed' after you've been waiting two hours! ROTFL ------ !

Sandra Bullock?

[R8RBOB]

From satire to reality....Gov. Snyder says we need a high-speed bus system.

http://www.freep.com/article/2011110...12-Snyder-says

[Detroitnerd]

From satire to reality....Gov. Snyder says we need a high-speed bus system.

http://www.freep.com/article/2011110...12-Snyder-says

Aaaaarrrgghhh! It won't die! Going to the fucking "Michigan Rail Summit" to drum up support for a fucking BUS NETWORK. Oooooh, the buses are longer! They don't stop as often! Let's let the concrete contractors have a ball building "dedicated bus lanes"! The buses also can control traffic lights! Ooooh! MONORAIL! MONORAIL! MONORAIL! MONORAIL!


Snyder said he wants a public discussion "about how to do this the right way."

Don't do it.

[Wesley Mouch]

... It seems to me that the problem is a failure of leadership and misplaced priorities.

100%

But that said, it doesn't matter. Its what we have. So within that structure, what's best? For that very reason, I think BRT is the best choice. We don't have the competence, leadership, or priorities to run a light-rail system. And maybe not even BRT. But at least w/ BRT, the hardware is cheap and expected to wear out. And all our bad decisions will be able to be done right by our children -- without burdening them with the stranded costs of a fixed and inflexible, expensive system that was installed by corrupt contractors on routes chosen for their proximity to political friends. So get BRT going, and grow from there.

[downtownguy]

The big issue that I have is that our light rail needs to not compete with street traffic. I think our best compromise right now is running it up the middle of Woodward with light timings ALWAYS going green for trains.

I believe most BRT systems also operate with the lights going green for them.

[Detroitnerd]

Gov. Snyder: Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, diesel-powered, sixty-seat SUPERBUS!
What'd I say?
DetroitYES: SUPERBUS!
Gov. Snyder: What's it called?
DetroitYES: SUPERBUS!
Gov. Snyder: That's right! SUPERBUS!
[DetroitYES chants 'SUPERBUS' softly and rhythmically]
Concerned DYES poster: I hear those things are awfully slow...
Gov. Snyder: Those diesel engines really go!
Concerned DYES poster: Where does this mode fit the bill?
Gov. Snyder: They ride it way down in Brazil.
Concerned DYES poster: But will the mode draw TOD?
Gov. Snyder: Just like in Brazil, you see?
Concerned DYES poster: More rubber, gas and concrete miles?
Gov. Snyder: Aww, this thing runs on hugs and smiles.
Concerned DYES poster: But light rail costs a little more...
Gov. Snyder: Shut your mouth, you filthy whore!
I swear it's Detroit's only choice...
Throw up your hands and raise your voice!
DetroitYES: SUPERBUS!
Gov. Snyder: What's it called?
DetroitYES: SUPERBUS!
Gov. Snyder: Once again...
DetroitYES: SUPERBUS!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jF_yLodI1CQ

[R8RBOB]

Did anyone see the Ch. 7 report on DOT buses?

[iheartthed]

100%

But that said, it doesn't matter. Its what we have. So within that structure, what's best? For that very reason, I think BRT is the best choice. We don't have the competence, leadership, or priorities to run a light-rail system. And maybe not even BRT. But at least w/ BRT, the hardware is cheap and expected to wear out. And all our bad decisions will be able to be done right by our children -- without burdening them with the stranded costs of a fixed and inflexible, expensive system that was installed by corrupt contractors on routes chosen for their proximity to political friends. So get BRT going, and grow from there.

I doubt switching the mode of transportation will fix the problem. This BRT proposal is nothing new; it was proposed more than a decade ago. Metro Detroit has as much of a BRT system today as it did then. If anything, the proposal is likely to die a familiar death until the structural inefficiencies of Metro Detroit's system of leadership is addressed.

[ghettopalmetto]

I doubt switching the mode of transportation will fix the problem. This BRT proposal is nothing new; it was proposed more than a decade ago. Metro Detroit has as much of a BRT system today as it did then. If anything, the proposal is likely to die a familiar death until the structural inefficiencies of Metro Detroit's system of leadership is addressed.

It's just aggravating because every time this BRT distraction is raised, it detracts from a serious discussion of the very real transportation needs of the region.