Snyder to propose high-speed bus network to knit Detroit, suburban systems

[ghettopalmetto]

Great post.

Interesting that Snyder has already floated more transit ideas than Granholm ever did...

You mean the whole five minutes it took to fish the ideas out of SEMCOG's dumpster?

[iheartthed]

Great post.

Interesting that Snyder has already floated more transit ideas than Granholm ever did...

This wasn't his idea: http://www.michigandaily.com/content...irport-detroit

[ghettopalmetto]

That's sad. More than ten years have passed, and there still isn't even a once-daily commuter bus between Ann Arbor and Detroit. But people can sure as shit put time, money, and effort into Super Bowls, Final Fours, casinos, freeway reconstructions and building demolitions.

Absolutely freaking pathetic.

[DetroitPlanner]

Great post.

Interesting that Snyder has already floated more transit ideas than Granholm ever did...

Unfortunately the blog that DN quotes from is complete garbage. SEMCOG's largest year was probably about $700 million in federal funding. It also has population weighted voting so the number of delegates does not really matter. Detroit has the Mayor, 2 City Council Members,and votes from Wayne County's Legislative and Executive branches.

Incidentally MOSES' suit was thrown out of court because it had no merit.

Granholm also tried to get the Transit Authority in Detroit, but it was blocked by the Republicans. Snyder will have many of those same issues. Granholm was a leader in getting funding for both the Woodward train nand the Ann Arbor to Detroit Train as well. She also passed complete streets and unified planning ordinances. To say she did nothing is not quite factual.

[R8RBOB]

"In a symbol of regional failure, Detroit is unique among large metros for operating separate transit systems for its central city and the surrounding suburbs — a byproduct of the Motor City’s stark racial segregation. That creates a logistical nightmare for transit riders. ..."

Myron Orfield, author of “American Metropolitics, says of SEMCOG, “It is really probably the worst in the country. Detroit builds massive highways into cornfields and doesn’t reinvest in the existing infrastructure or build transit. Detroit is a catastrophe.”

With organizations like this, we're never going to have regional planning that really understands cities, transit, urban development, etc.

The last part of the blog summed up Metro Detroit nicely.

When I lived in the Bay Area, I loved the fact that I could park my car at one of the BART stations and take the BART to S.F. and then hop on a cable-car to Fisherman Wharf or take the BART to the airport. It was so convenient. Why oh why couldn't Metro Detroit be so convenient. [[Don't bother to answer it. I already know...LOL)

[sycloneman]

“It is really probably the worst in the country. Detroit builds massive highways into cornfields and doesn’t reinvest in the existing infrastructure or build transit. Detroit is a catastrophe.”

That is the quote of the century for me! So blunt and so true! Haven't seen it put any better!

[R8RBOB]

That's sad. More than ten years have passed, and there still isn't even a once-daily commuter bus between Ann Arbor and Detroit. But people can sure as shit put time, money, and effort into Super Bowls, Final Fours, casinos, freeway reconstructions and building demolitions.

Absolutely freaking pathetic.

You know back in the 90's when I was in my 20's, I would have loved to be able to hang in A2 since it is a college town but I was not going to drive from Detroit to Ann Arbor to do that. It would have been nice if they had a bus or a rail for daily trips to A2.

[Bham1982]

"In a symbol of regional failure, Detroit is unique among large metros for operating separate transit systems for its central city and the surrounding suburbs — a byproduct of the Motor City’s stark racial segregation. That creates a logistical nightmare for transit riders. ..."

I am always wondering why folks repeat this nonsense. If anything, it's quite rare for a city to share bus service with surrounding suburbs.

Looking at the largest U.S. cities, almost all have separate city and suburban networks.

NYC, LA, Chicago, DC, SF all have separate networks.

Phily and Boston have shared networks.

So obviously the main issue isn't the separate networks. It works fine for many cities.

[j to the jeremy]

I have talked to a lot of people in the over-40 crowd from A2 who also would love to come out to Detroit for a night but can't do it because they can't drink at dinner, etc.

[Detroitnerd]

Unfortunately the blog that DN quotes from is complete garbage. SEMCOG's largest year was probably about $700 million in federal funding. It also has population weighted voting so the number of delegates does not really matter. Detroit has the Mayor, 2 City Council Members,and votes from Wayne County's Legislative and Executive branches.

Complete garbage? Now, if you want to haggle over facts, that's a fair cop, but even with your "corrections," I believe the substance of the article, that SEMCOG under-represents urban areas and minorities, remains true. For Livingston County to have four representatives, fairness would dictate that Detroit would have to have had four times as many, or 16.

Granholm also tried to get the Transit Authority in Detroit, but it was blocked by the Republicans. Snyder will have many of those same issues. Granholm was a leader in getting funding for both the Woodward train nand the Ann Arbor to Detroit Train as well. She also passed complete streets and unified planning ordinances. To say she did nothing is not quite factual.

That wasn't what he said. He argued that Snyder has done more than Granholm, not that Granholm had done nothing.

What's with you today, DP? Wrong side of bed?

[R8RBOB]

I am always wondering why folks repeat this nonsense. If anything, it's quite rare for a city to share bus service with surrounding suburbs.

Looking at the largest U.S. cities, almost all have separate city and suburban networks.

NYC, LA, Chicago, DC, SF all have separate networks.

Phily and Boston have shared networks.

So obviously the main issue isn't the separate networks. It works fine for many cities.

Every city you listed have some form of mass transit. Metro Detroit's only form of transit is buses.

[Danny]

No, that's called "exceeding the speed limit". But theoretically, such a thing is called a Commuter Bus, which most other large cities already have. Its purpose and operating characteristics are far different from that of rapid transit. Basically, a commuter bus functions just like a commuter train, but handles lower-volume routes where the railroad tracks don't go.

Then again, folks here on DYes barely know the difference between "light rail" and "commuter rail", so I digress.

Just go on the high speed bus, ghettopalmetto. and see how it flow like bullet train. I should think that getting on either D-DOT or SMART bus would make you think it would go rapid.

[ghettopalmetto]

I am always wondering why folks repeat this nonsense. If anything, it's quite rare for a city to share bus service with surrounding suburbs.

Looking at the largest U.S. cities, almost all have separate city and suburban networks.

NYC, LA, Chicago, DC, SF all have separate networks.

Phily and Boston have shared networks.

So obviously the main issue isn't the separate networks. It works fine for many cities.

Bullshit. All of those cities have either extensive rail transit or regional rail networks, into which the local suburban bus systems feed.

SMART essentially stops at the Detroit City Limits, as does DDOT from the opposite direction. You could have bus staring contests at Eight Mile Road. There is barely any linkage between the two services.

[Danny]

Darta is dead!

The Woodward High Speed Rai proposal is stuck in some bureaucratic table
.
and Snyder's Nerd-express is finished!

Keep dreaming fellas.

[DetroitPlanner]

So obviously the main issue isn't the separate networks. It works fine for many cities.

The main issue with Detroit is not so much that it has separate networks, it is that both are underfunded and that there is no authority coordinating the two. In order for an authority to exist the State must approve legislation. This has been floated before both Engler and Granholm and never approved. Hopefully Snyder's messages of coordinating services will make this a no brainer, but there are a lot of out-state legislators who may see no value in this for their consituency and try to hook pork onto it and eventually kill it.

[Danny]

Bullshit. All of those cities have either extensive rail transit or regional rail networks, into which the local suburban bus systems feed.

SMART essentially stops at the Detroit City Limits, as does DDOT from the opposite direction. You could have bus staring contests at Eight Mile Road. There is barely any linkage between the two services.

A 120 years ago Metro-Detroit had regional rail that can reach from Toledo to Port Huron from Ann Arbor to Detroit and Detroit to Pontiac, to Flint and all points beyond. Detroit used to have the DSR. Now we just have the D-DOT and SMART that would only in city limits pretty soon by December 12th. Go drive a car fellas.

In the meantime watch th DSR opening

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYTH3...eature=related

[Detroitnerd]

I am always wondering why folks repeat this nonsense. If anything, it's quite rare for a city to share bus service with surrounding suburbs.

Looking at the largest U.S. cities, almost all have separate city and suburban networks.

NYC, LA, Chicago, DC, SF all have separate networks.

Phily and Boston have shared networks.

So obviously the main issue isn't the separate networks. It works fine for many cities.

Nonsense? That's kind of a strong word. Do I detect an emotional reaction to the proposition that Detroit and its suburbs could share anything?

Don't forget, Detroit was hemmed in almost a century ago by the insistence upon home rule and stopping the city's growth. So, it's a relatively small city, geographically, by U.S. standards. It is, in fact, about the size of Philly, and almost twice as large as Boston, both of which you say have shared networks. For D.C., there are political barriers to surmount, for SF, there are geographical barriers to cross. Chicago is almost twice as large as Detroit and New York City three times the size.

Also, you neglect to mention that, while many cities have different bus networks from their suburbs, many of those cities have very successful regional transit authorities.

Don't be afraid. Regionalism wants to help you, not steal your wallet and force you to live with the unwashed masses.

[iheartthed]

I am always wondering why folks repeat this nonsense. If anything, it's quite rare for a city to share bus service with surrounding suburbs.

Looking at the largest U.S. cities, almost all have separate city and suburban networks.

NYC, LA, Chicago, DC, SF all have separate networks.

Phily and Boston have shared networks.

So obviously the main issue isn't the separate networks. It works fine for many cities.

None of those cities have separate city and suburban networks. I can use the same Metro Card in my pocket right now, that I used to get to work this morning on the NYC subway, on any MTA bus in Long Island or Westchester County.

[Detroitnerd]

None of those cities have separate city and suburban networks. I can use the same Metro Card in my pocket right now, that I used to get to work this morning on the NYC subway, on any MTA bus in Long Island or Westchester County.

MTA runs buses in Long Island? I guess I forgot that. Come on, now, certainly SOME of what Bham posted must be true...

[DetroitPlanner]

Complete garbage? Now, if you want to haggle over facts, that's a fair cop, but even with your "corrections," I believe the substance of the article, that SEMCOG under-represents urban areas and minorities, remains true. For Livingston County to have four representatives, fairness would dictate that Detroit would have to have had four times as many, or 16.

That wasn't what he said. He argued that Snyder has done more than Granholm, not that Granholm had done nothing.

What's with you today, DP? Wrong side of bed?

The point I made was that SEMCOG does count votes based upon population not by the number of representatives at the meeting. It should also be noted that if we had more matching dollars devoted for transit, then the amount of transit programmed each years as a piece of the pie would be much larger.

[Detroitnerd]

The point I made was that SEMCOG does count votes based upon population not by the number of representatives at the meeting. It should also be noted that if we had more matching dollars devoted for transit, then the amount of transit programmed each years as a piece of the pie would be much larger.

Yes, but, to quote TRU: "The voting structure for General Assembly and Executive Committee resolutions requires, firstly, a vote of delegates based on municipality membership, which is weighted heavily in favor of a suburban and fringe region vote. Only if an item is passed in this vote can a request be made to re-vote under the population-weighted vote procedure."

Tricky, tricky, tricky!

[iheartthed]

MTA runs buses in Long Island? I guess I forgot that. Come on, now, certainly SOME of what Bham posted must be true...

Yup. They're all the same as the NYC buses except they say "MTA Long Island Bus" instead of "MTA New York City Bus".

[Detroitnerd]

Yup. They're all the same as the NYC buses except they say "MTA Long Island Bus" instead of "MTA New York City Bus".

I think I took one of those out to Jones Beach once.

[iheartthed]

I think I took one of those out to Jones Beach once.

Yeah, that's the only time I've ever used a LI bus [[going to Jones Beach). But I've seen them running in the outer areas of Queens before.

[Bham1982]

Every city you listed have some form of mass transit. Metro Detroit's only form of transit is buses.

This is false [[Detroit has the People Mover), but it has nothing to do with my post.

I was obviously referring to DDOT vs. SMART, and the perception that the two agencies would automatically be much stronger as a single entity.