5 Dead in Wrong-way Crash on Lodge

**stinkytofu** · October-23-11, 12:44 PM

Tragic.

http://detnews.com/article/20111023/...-leaves-5-dead

This happens far too often on the Lodge. I don't know if it is poor signage, drunk driving, stupid drivers...or some mix, but it's very troublesome and, frankly, scary as heck. In rush hour coming down the Lodge I have no fears, but if I have to drive that stretch late at night I've considered taking Woodward for this exact reason...and I think I'm really going to abide by that now.

**Meddle** · October-23-11, 12:49 PM

Freep article: http://www.freep.com/article/2011102...text|FRONTPAGE

Five people died in a fiery crash this morning on M-10, near I-696.

According to Michigan State Police, one of the cars involved in the crash was driving the wrong way on M-10 at about 4:15 a.m. today when it hit the other car.

Four people were in an SUV and a 23-year-old was driving alone in the other car, said MSP Sgt. Nathaniel McQueen. The cars both caught fire and emergency personnel were required to pull the four from the SUV.

“Given the time of day, alcohol is a possibility, speed is a possibility,” said McQueen on their continuing investigation.

Southfield Police and Fire also responded to the scene.

**Gistok** · October-23-11, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by stinkytofu

Tragic.

http://detnews.com/article/20111023/...-leaves-5-dead

This happens far too often on the Lodge. I don't know if it is poor signage, drunk driving, stupid drivers...or some mix, but it's very troublesome and, frankly, scary as heck. In rush hour coming down the Lodge I have no fears, but if I have to drive that stretch late at night I've considered taking Woodward for this exact reason...and I think I'm really going to abide by that now.

Just look at what happened to our forum member Fnemecek.... driving down I-96 westbound late at night... getting plowed into the rear by some drunk woman going over 100MPH... and waking up over a week later in the hospital....

**313WX** · October-23-11, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by stinkytofu

Tragic.

http://detnews.com/article/20111023/...-leaves-5-dead

This happens far too often on the Lodge. I don't know if it is poor signage, drunk driving, stupid drivers...or some mix, but it's very troublesome and, frankly, scary as heck. In rush hour coming down the Lodge I have no fears, but if I have to drive that stretch late at night I've considered taking Woodward for this exact reason...and I think I'm really going to abide by that now.

The accident was in Southfield. Wouldn't taking Woodward take you out of the way? The Lodge is really the only way one can get to that part of town from downtown without going out of the way.

That said, no street is really safe at night. Drunk drivers can be everywhere and anywhere.

**stinkytofu** · October-23-11, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

The accident was in Southfield. Wouldn't taking Woodward take you out of the way? The Lodge is really the only way one can get to that part of town from downtown without going out of the way.

That said, no street is really safe at night. Drunk drivers can be everywhere and anywhere.

If you have to get to Bloomfield Township, the three options - Lodge to Evergreen, Woodward, 75 to Big Beaver - are pretty close timewise.

**Scottathew** · October-23-11, 01:19 PM

This is why that one judge always give jail for drunk driving. I couldn't agree with her more.

Best wishes to the families.

**ThisIsForTheHeart** · October-23-11, 01:32 PM

This is why its critical to get mass transit across the whole metro area so at least drunk people can at least have more options to get home. One time for a night out, I have taken the el from south loop to wrigglyville and coming back, the train was packed with younger people around 2:30AM going home after a night of drinking.

**Detwa** · October-23-11, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by 48091

This is why that one judge always give jail for drunk driving. I couldn't agree with her more.

Best wishes to the families.

I agree! I absolutely despise drunk drivers. That's not a slap on the wrist offense because its no different than walking outside with a blindfold and shooting off a gun into the street. Treat them just like murderers because they made the decision to attempt to kill someone else for their own selfishness. Just because they got pulled over before they could kill an innocent driver doesn't mean they wouldn't have. They get no sympathy from me, I say minimum 1 year jail term for first offenders! Ugh, hate them! Scum of the earth!

**bailey** · October-24-11, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by Detwa

I agree! I absolutely despise drunk drivers. That's not a slap on the wrist offense because its no different than walking outside with a blindfold and shooting off a gun into the street. Treat them just like murderers because they made the decision to attempt to kill someone else for their own selfishness. Just because they got pulled over before they could kill an innocent driver doesn't mean they wouldn't have. They get no sympathy from me, I say minimum 1 year jail term for first offenders! Ugh, hate them! Scum of the earth!

Problem with that logic is that we, as a society, tend to dislike "strict liability". .08 [[which might actually bounce back to .10 if the .08 law is allowed to sunset in 2013) may or may not affect everyone the same. Further, there is a HUGE difference between impairment at .08 and hammered at .15...or .20. Finally, getting popped for rolling a stop sign at an empty intersection and then having the cop figure out you might be a sliver over .08 because you had that extra glass of wine at your 35th wedding anniversary dinner, is a shitload different than being blotto and blowing down the highway at 100+ mph. That is why judges are supposed to use discretion and the guidelines are just that "guidelines". The particular judge who sentences people without taking into consideration the facts and circumstances of the arrest and simply throws the maximum at them is not doing her job. Nor is she solving the problem.

Occurrence · October-24-11, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

Problem with that logic is that we, as a society, tend to dislike "strict liability". .08 [[which might actually bounce back to .10 if the .08 law is allowed to sunset in 2013) may or may not affect everyone the same. Further, there is a HUGE difference between impairment at .08 and hammered at .15...or .20. Finally, getting popped for rolling a stop sign at an empty intersection and then having the cop figure out you might be a sliver over .08 because you had that extra glass of wine at your 35th wedding anniversary dinner, is a shitload different than being blotto and blowing down the highway at 100+ mph. That is why judges are supposed to use discretion and the guidelines are just that "guidelines". The particular judge who sentences people without taking into consideration the facts and circumstances of the arrest and simply throws the maximum at them is not doing her job. Nor is she solving the problem.

+ 1.

It's ridicules that people who blow .08 are placed in the same category are people who are near blackout drunk. It shouldn't be that black and white. Alcohol affects everyone differently. I'd rather be sharing the road with a drunken thick-necked lumberjack who drinks every night than some completely sober frail old confused people who don't know what the hell they are doing. DUI sentences should be done on an individual basis.

They always say how many accidents are caused by drunk drivers, but how many accidents are caused by bad drivers in general? You can't get numbers for things like that. That car going 8 mph under the speed limit could arguably cause just as many, if not more accidents than a drunk.

**Lowell** · October-23-11, 02:11 PM

Unfortunately neither article is very informative about the location and how the driver got southbound on the northbound. That part of the Lodge is wider and safer than the canyon through north Detroit. The pavement is newly rebuilt and in excellent condition.There is no way to cross the meridian around there, so maybe he got down the Ten Mile exit ramp. After Southfield the legal speed increases to 70; I say legal because it is difficult to drive on rest the Lodge under 70.

**Lowell** · October-24-11, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by Lowell

Unfortunately neither article is very informative about the location and how the driver got southbound on the northbound. That part of the Lodge is wider and safer than the canyon through north Detroit. The pavement is newly rebuilt and in excellent condition.There is no way to cross the meridian around there, so maybe he got down the Ten Mile exit ramp. After Southfield the legal speed increases to 70; I say legal because it is difficult to drive on rest the Lodge under 70.

It is now said that the tragedy occurred btw. Telegraph and Lahser. The expressway along there is divided by a large median for a great distance that includes a big mound and the Rouge River. I now speculate that the driver entered from northbound Telegraph taking a right turn rather that flowing with curve to the left. This is not an easy 'mistake' to make even for a drunk. It makes me wonder if this was a suicide.

**Meddle** · October-23-11, 02:11 PM

Treat them just like murderers because they made the decision to attempt to kill someone else for their own selfishness.

Not hardly.

**rjk** · October-23-11, 07:18 PM

Back in the late 80's a car was heading straight towards me on I-696 in Warren. I remember swerving out of the way and coming to a stop on the shoulder where I was shaking uncontrollably for what seemed like around 10 minutes. Talk about your life flashing before your eyes.

**Gistok** · October-23-11, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by rjk

Back in the late 80's a car was heading straight towards me on I-696 in Warren. I remember swerving out of the way and coming to a stop on the shoulder where I was shaking uncontrollably for what seemed like around 10 minutes. Talk about your life flashing before your eyes.

Had a similar experience on I-94 at 4:30AM... heading westbound on the 8 Mile curve [[I was in the right lane)... and some fool was coming my way in the left lane. I kept flashing my brights and honking my horn... but the clueless driver was likely drunk, and just zoomed past. Since he wasn't in my lane... I wasn't shaken... just annoyed...

**Russix** · October-24-11, 06:25 AM

They're called Ghost Drivers and they really are dangerous.

**Gannon** · October-24-11, 06:32 AM

I had one on I-25 heading up to Flagstaff out of Phoenix a few years back.

Just left a gas station in town where the young cashier severely warned me about driving after midnight, it was probably one in the morning.

I saw headlights on my side of the highway, WAY up the mountain. Made sure the road was straight, and called their highway patrol...gave them the play-by-play.

Flashed lights at him. He flashed right back. Gave me 'some' encouragement that they were at least responsive, but I had no idea until they passed me if they were suicidal. It was the most stressful five minutes of driving ever in my life.

The government cannot do anything against drunk driving until they make mass transit run when the bars let out. They don't actually CARE about curbing the drunks, they only want to PROFIT off of them! If they cared, they'd make reasonable and easy alternatives...

No cheers on any of this.

Sincerely,
John

**DetroitPlanner** · October-24-11, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by Gannon

The government cannot do anything against drunk driving until they make mass transit run when the bars let out. They don't actually CARE about curbing the drunks, they only want to PROFIT off of them! If they cared, they'd make reasonable and easy alternatives...

No cheers on any of this.

Sincerely,
John

John, I doubt that is the case, If the govt ran buses all night then there would be people screaming about how thier tax dollars were going to fund empty buses. The reason for the stiff penalties is to discourage this sort of behaviour. Its not that govt does not care, a person is reponsible for his own actions. Unfortunately, some people never learn.

Your example of Phoenix to Flagstaff I can imagine has some very desolate stretches of inter-city roadway. There would be no way you could get a bus system to operate without it being prohibitivley expensive. Govt is stilly laying off tens of thousands of people every month. It is being shrunk through less taxes coming in. Your proposal would not make it anywhere close to being a reality. Look at the cutbacks of service recently announced by all of our transit agencies.

**Jimaz** · October-24-11, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by Gannon

I had one on I-25 heading up to Flagstaff out of Phoenix a few years back.

I-17. Or maybe you were leaving Albuquerque?

I saw one on I-75 at night in the distance bouncing off the guard rails in showers of sparks.

**Scottathew** · October-24-11, 08:17 AM

I was on WB I-94 past Jackson once and saw a drunk driver. I called 911 and coordinated with the Michigan State Police. They had me flash my hazards when I went by the patrol car and they nabbed him.

**MikeM** · October-24-11, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by 48091

I was on WB I-94 past Jackson once and saw a drunk driver. I called 911 and coordinated with the Michigan State Police. They had me flash my hazards when I went by the patrol car and they nabbed him.

Wasn't there a lawsuit in Michigan about this in the past few years? An argument to the effect that a citizen report of a drunk driver was not sufficient probable cause for the police to stop a driver?

**Meddle** · October-24-11, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by MikeM

Wasn't there a lawsuit in Michigan about this in the past few years? An argument to the effect that a citizen report of a drunk driver was not sufficient probable cause for the police to stop a driver?

It isn't, but they don't make the stop without observing for themselves for some distance. You can call and report your suspicions and they take it from there to determine probable cause.

**drjeff** · October-24-11, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

It isn't, but they don't make the stop without observing for themselves for some distance. You can call and report your suspicions and they take it from there to determine probable cause.

4 or 5 years ago I was driving west on I-94 near Telegraph around 11 pm and was passed by a guy weaving all over the road, driving erratically, and clearly a serious safety hazard. I called 911 and they seemed not to care at all. Didn't even ask for the license plate until I asked if they wanted it.

**Gistok** · October-24-11, 09:43 AM

For anyone who is under the misconception that Mass Transit somehow eliminates or reduces drunk driving... reality check... just Google "Chicago Drunk Drivers".... you get page after page of Chicago area lawyers that specialize in drunk driving cases.... sorry but mass transit is not the panacea that some may think....

**Danny** · October-24-11, 09:51 AM

A warining sticker should be placed in ever atomobile:

The car is made for driving ONLY. It is not made for texting, drinking and smoking. Before I ride in the car with my family and friends. I have to tell them don't text, drink alcohol PERIOD! I am serious. Not with me in the car! If I'm not in your car. You can do whatever you want to kill yourself! I kind sound like the parent, but I can be one to your if your balance your ethnic morality to other people.