DTE Reposses Highland Park Street Lights

[Danny]

Huh?

If you don't pay your bills, then you don't get utility service. It's not some evil greedy scheme to take over the world by screwing over poor people.

It sucks that Highland Park won't have well lit streets. However, there are more options than just having street light poles.

My neighborhood is well lit by public lighting, but many folks on the street still want more light and install porch lights.

So if folks in highland park don't feel safe because their street is too dark, install a porch light! a ~20 watt CFL light will provide around the same level of light as a 100 watt traditional bulb and will light up a lot of real estate.

DTE Energy and its Corporations must give the folks in Highland Park a break. They need their street lights to keep their ghettohoods safe. Yes they have been corrupted but they have a soft heart. Folks in those ghettohoods are just trying to survive. If they don't receive help and get a trained education. They would look to other sources to make and save money
for their own survival. If the corp pigs want to suck HP dry, then go right ahead. Those folks in Highland Park still have a compassionate heart to hang on their homes they work so hard to achive.

[ferntruth]

DTE Energy and its Corporations must give the folks in Highland Park a break. They need their street lights to keep their ghettohoods safe. Yes they have been corrupted but they have a soft heart. Folks in those ghettohoods are just trying to survive. If they don't receive help and get a trained education. They would look to other sources to make and save money
for their own survival. If the corp pigs want to suck HP dry, then go right ahead. Those folks in Highland Park still have a compassionate heart to hang on their homes they work so hard to achive.

I'm not sure which is more confusing - your rambling message or the fact you felt the need to bold the entire message.
What corp pigs? DTE Energy? Yes, how dare they expect payment for the service they provide. The repossession of the light poles was part of the settlement that HP and DTE reached over unpaid utility bills.

Not paying your bills has consequences.

[Scottathew]

DTE Energy and its Corporations must give the folks in Highland Park a break.

False. They are not required to give them a break.

However, the inverse it true. Highland Park is required to pay their bills, or suffer the consequences.

DTE has worked with Highland Park and has given them a lot of leeway, however, they exhausted this leeway and DTE had to act.

[Occurrence]

I
Not paying your bills has consequences.

You say this as if the people of Highland Park didn't pay the bill personally. For those who live in the city and pay taxes, why should they be punished by having their public safety put in jeopardy by lack of light?

[Scottathew]

You say this as if the people of Highland Park didn't pay the bill personally. For those who live in the city and pay taxes, why should they be punished by having their public safety put in jeopardy by lack of light?

No, we [[and the news articles) say the city of Highland Park did not pay DTE.

And yes, DTE most certainly has the right to yank service for non-payment. Even if it negatively effects people.

The people of a city are responsible for their local government. If public lighting is important enough, they should get a public lighting millage on the ballot.

My feeling is that folks would rather have dark streets than to pay more in taxes.

[Occurrence]

No, we [[and the news articles) say the city of Highland Park did not pay DTE.

And yes, DTE most certainly has the right to yank service for non-payment. Even if it negatively effects people.

The people of a city are responsible for their local government. If public lighting is important enough, they should get a public lighting millage on the ballot.

My feeling is that folks would rather have dark streets than to pay more in taxes.

But, I just saw an upbeat DTE commercial on television telling people how to save energy, because they care about people!

Taking away the citizens streetlights, which may jeopardize their public health, is a very mean thing to do. I thought they cared about people?

[313WX]

But, I just saw an upbeat DTE commercial on television telling people how to save energy, because they care about people!

Taking away the citizens streetlights, which may jeopardize their public health, is a very mean thing to do. I thought they cared about people?

You actually believe everything that comes out of a corporation's mouth?

[Occurrence]

Yes. If it was in the commercial than it must be true. They wouldn't dare give the illusion that they care about people, would they?

[313WX]

Yes. If it was in the commercial than it must be true. They wouldn't dare give the illusion that they care about people, would they?

If it meant better PR for them then yes.

Better PR usually leads to bigger profits for them.

[Scottathew]

Taking away the citizens streetlights, which may jeopardize their public health, is a very mean thing to do. I thought they cared about people?

Sweet. Just what I wanted. The cost of lighting Highland Park, instead of being charged to those residents, can be stretched across all of DTE's paying customers.

Get over it folks. If you don't pay your bills, you get your services cut off. It doesn't matter if you're a person, a business, or a city.

The folks at DTE need to get paid too, they don't work for free.

Want public lighting? THEN PAY FOR IT!

[Occurrence]

I don't know about that. Removing much needed streetlights in a deeply troubled and impoverished city such as Highland Park can't be good PR for the company.

I understand the whole "pay your bills" concept some people are spouting off here, but lighten up. Highland Park isn't that big of a city, let them have their lights. I'm sure whoever runs the company isn't starving.

[detroitsgwenivere]

When I was contracted with DTE on the NESO Project [[Neighborhood Energy Savings Outreach), we made education the primary objective for reducing consumption of energy and saving people money on their utility bills. It was a relatively expensive project that hired certified weatherization specialists to assess homes for energy loss, install energy saving measures, and educate people about their energy bills. At one point, we had over 20 crews going into 7-8 homes a day in Detroit, Highland Park, and Hamtramck 4 days a week. We managed to perform evaluations in over 35,000 homes in less than one year. Was it intended for PR? Absolutely. Detroit and DTE has the worst rated relationship between a city populace and it's utility provider in the entire country.

This education was necessary to help people understand that, without changing their behavior, the CFL's and water saving devices we would install would not be enough to lower the bills in the long run. The cost of energy is not going to go down. As demand increases, as well as the need for new green infrastructure, so will the cost. You guys would be surprised just how uneducated most people are about consumption and what it takes to bring power to their homes.

One of my pet peeves was installing lightbulbs in porch, backdoor, and flood fixtures just for the very issues that this thread has brought up. In some neighborhoods where our program had heavy influence, especially ones whos utility poles never seem to have working lights, the difference in outdoor light production was visible immediately and the best part was it cost a fraction of what it would have had people used incandecent bulbs. Some people had lived in their house for years and had never had a bulb in their porch's perfectly working fixture.

I don't condone all of DTE's practices. Danny speaks some truth to his reference of their being a corporation, and it is indisputable that the nature of corporations is to make a profit, sometimes at the expense of the society they operate in. And I have serious gripes about their lack of investment and upgrade to Detroit's power infrastructure, considering how much we pay into it. But it seems to me that too many people [[and cities) feel that their energy usage is an entitlement, and make no connection to conserving and investing in long term energy- efficiency as a means to keep their bills down and the lights on. People who leave their lights on day and night and keep the heat on 80F in November tend to be the same people in city government who think DTE should just give away power for the greater good. They fail to realize that the power system still belongs to all of us, if we didn't pay for it it wouldn't exist, and when people don't pay for their usage, the rest of us do. Should they have taken away the poles in HP and turned off the streetlights? I wouldn't have, but I also choose not to vote for politicians who condone monopolizing and corporatizing our basic needs.

LEDs are expensive upfront, but they burn almost 80% less electricity than high pressure sodium bulbs and give off almost no heat, preventing several expensive fixture issues that plague the current ones. HP could have applied for a grant to pay for these lights years ago, but apparently this non-rocket-science type of logic is escaping the managers who run that city.

Hell, I'd fill out the paperwork for 'em.

[Occurrence]

Get over it folks. If you don't pay your bills, you get your services cut off. It doesn't matter if you're a person, a business, or a city.

Aside from pissing away our tax dollars like a bad MC Hammer Behind the Music story, our own Government doesn't pay it's bills.

I'll pay an extra $.50 cents a month so the people of Highland Park can keep their stupid street lights on. I have more important shit to worry about, I'm not going to complain about a financially troubled community receiving simple basic city services like streetlights.

[surenowinlife]

Well maybe its time for everyone to move out of H.P,and turn it into a farm.
Thank God for solar powered lights around my yard!

[Scottathew]

I'll pay an extra $.50 cents a month so the people of Highland Park can keep their stupid street lights on. I have more important shit to worry about, I'm not going to complain about a financially troubled community receiving simple basic city services like streetlights.

I won't.

Cities all around Michigan are having to layoff folks, pick and choose which services to run and at what levels.

If Highland Park wants light, then they can pay for them.

If you want Highland Park to have lights, but you don't want them to pay for them, you should form a charity and collect donations from like-minded people.


Or, optionally, people can just turn on their porch lights if they think having a well lit street will make them safer...

[Dexlin]

Yeah, because porch lights illuminate sidewalks. lol These folks aren't living on some farm road. Anyway, as is typical Metro Detroit, this is literally a case of the last person out the door turning the lights off only, now, they won't even have to turn the lights out, themselves.

I got mine, now go get your own, indeed.

[Scottathew]

Yeah, because porch lights illuminate sidewalks.

My 20-watt CFL porchlight most certainly does. In fact, it even illuminates the street as well. My porch light combined with the porch lights of my neighbors keeps our neighborhood lit rather well.

If it's so cheap and not a big deal to provide this service, then Highland Park should just choose to raise their taxes to cover it.

Also, if we start forcing utilities to provide services for free, then who's going to be the next city, and the next city, and the next city until the point that your electric rates start going up.

Usage should be paid for by the people using it.

[313WX]

I don't know about that. Removing much needed streetlights in a deeply troubled and impoverished city such as Highland Park can't be good PR for the company.

Well if they create enough of an illusion, as you say, that tehy care about people, then it can be.

The keyword there is illusion.

[Detroitnerd]

Usage should be paid for by the people using it.

I agree. I think it's outrageous that my tax dollars are paying for roads in the state of Michigan, 99 percent of which I DO NOT USE. Why should the costs of all these roads be stretched across all of these people who do not use them? I never go north of Mackinac, and seldom north of Saginaw. What the f*ck are my tax dollars doing paying for roads I will never, ever use? That's socialism, pure and simple!

[Danny]

I'm not sure which is more confusing - your rambling message or the fact you felt the need to bold the entire message.
What corp pigs? DTE Energy? Yes, how dare they expect payment for the service they provide. The repossession of the light poles was part of the settlement that HP and DTE reached over unpaid utility bills.

Not paying your bills has consequences.

People the have power and the right to considate their debts with their collectors. Including Highland Park. Those folks have the tax dollars to pay some the bills. They even made their hard earned sacrifices in order to keep their street lights in their ghettoes for the last 40 years. But it seems to me that DTE Energy have to feed the fat cats making their stock derivatives in Wall Street. Therefore payment arrangements are over and taking the lights away from their ghettohoods [[ making crime and robberies a gold mine for tramps and theives). If its the their way to settle their debt so be it. But the ghettohoods Highland Park should NOT be in the dark! It is ethnically and morally WRONG! Payment arrangements should have been done in the first place.

[Scottathew]

I agree. I think it's outrageous that my tax dollars are paying for roads in the state of Michigan, 99 percent of which I DO NOT USE. Why should the costs of all these roads be stretched across all of these people who do not use them? I never go north of Mackinac, and seldom north of Saginaw. What the f*ck are my tax dollars doing paying for roads I will never, ever use? That's socialism, pure and simple!

A good illustration but a little faulty. There are some usage taxes for roads, the obvious are tolls, but the less obvious are registration fees and the gas tax.

The more you drive in Michigan, the more you pay for road maintenance.

Roads at the local level are in part funded by the community that uses them. For example, the city of Warren has a road millage on the ballot to fix our local roads. We're not forcing Highland Park to pay for our local roads, were going to fund it ourselves.

But you do bring up a good point, the some services are indeed paid for by all, and used by virtually all people, but in varying amounts and ways.

I still totally disagree with subsidizing mismanaged city's utility bills via my bill. If public lighting is so important, Highland Park will find a way to make it happen. However, it's simply not important enough to the residents to do something about it. Their government has decided that they'd rather have cops to arrest the crooks than lights to see them walk down the street.

I fully support Highland Park's right to choose not to have street lights. I would also fully support their right to choose to have street lights. I support their right to choose what city services to have, but I don't think other folks ought to pay for them.


Supplemental info - Michigan Transportation Funding: http://www.youtube.com/user/Michigan.../0/jUki2tR8lJM

[Occurrence]

I won't.

Cities all around Michigan are having to layoff folks, pick and choose which services to run and at what levels.

If Highland Park wants light, then they can pay for them.

If you want Highland Park to have lights, but you don't want them to pay for them, you should form a charity and collect donations from like-minded people.


Or, optionally, people can just turn on their porch lights if they think having a well lit street will make them safer...

Yet you don't complain about the government pissing our tax dollars away and not paying their bills. How ironic.

If $.50 cents is that important to you, I will personally mail you a check every month for that amount to help cover your electric bill. Tough times call for tough measures. I care about you.

[Detroitnerd]

A good illustration but a little faulty. There are some usage taxes for roads, the obvious are tolls, but the less obvious are registration fees and the gas tax.

The more you drive in Michigan, the more you pay for road maintenance.

But it's UNFAIR! SOCIALISM! LET THEM BUILD THEIR OWN ROADS IF THEY WANT TO DRIVE ON THEM! MY MONEY! MINE! ME! MINE!

[j to the jeremy]

But it's UNFAIR! SOCIALISM! LET THEM BUILD THEIR OWN ROADS IF THEY WANT TO DRIVE ON THEM! MY MONEY! MINE! ME! MINE!

Don't forget about that socialist Police force! If Health care is socialist, then public safety is as well!

[Scottathew]

But it's UNFAIR! SOCIALISM! LET THEM BUILD THEIR OWN ROADS IF THEY WANT TO DRIVE ON THEM! MY MONEY! MINE! ME! MINE!

LOL, I wouldn't call it socialism.

Keep in mind, roads are part of a large system that take you across city, county, and state boundaries.

However, a streetlight in Highland Park ONLY lights Highland Park. It provides no benefit to folks that are not in Highland Park.

However, a state road going through Highland Park, let's say, Woodward, paid for at a state level takes me from where I work Downtown, through city borders, through county borders, and home to where I live.

Roads are different than street lights, because they're part of a system that services people that are not only in the city, but those that want to go through it.

Understand, that typically a side-street is funded locally, but a main road could be a county or state road, as their importance and use is of a high level and is used by more people.