Occupy Detroit

[BShea]

If you need me to tell you if I'm heckling you, god help you.

So then you agree with me. Excellent!

And before some genius tries to go this route: I'm not at all supportive of the police actions like the pepper spray incident at UC-Davis. That was obscene and will hopefully be punished. Very few things enrage me like police abuse of power. There are few greater violations of trust than those we entrust to protect us and uphold the laws violating that trust so blatantly, pointlessly and stupidly. But it's a fine line when anarchists start suddenly occupying private property, smashing windows, etc. -- all things OWS says are anathema to the movement -- because the cops do have to take action then. Nothing like that was going on at UC-Davis, which makes it so awful.

[maxx]

missingdetroit:

point of information: That Chapel Hill dealership was vacant.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/11/...-franklin.html

[Scottathew]

I just gotta laugh at some of this shit. At the root of this, many of these complaints are political complaints disguised as quality-of-life complaints. Oh, some may deny it, but, let's face it: We know what's driving these complaints.

Now that the park will be a site for public defecation [[but non-political!), many will be satisfied.

My complaint is very legitimate. Every day at lunch I take my daughter for a walk. We USED to go to Grand Circus, but once the occupation took it over we no longer went there. It's now too cold anyway to go outside, but back when it was warmer, we didn't go there.

Yes, I politically don't agree with Occupy folks, I haven't hid that. But also, I wasn't able to use the park so they could go camping.

I know it's hard for you to believe that conservatives work downtown, have children, and take them to parks, but it's true.

Besides that, we've been nice enough to grant them EXCLUSIVE use of the park for a very long time now. We've obliged them, it's time for the occupiers to release this public space back to the public.

[Detroitnerd]

Vacant for years, and owned by an out-of-town dude. No destruction of property took place by protesters, and yet police ran in on them, apparently toting shotguns.

To protect and serve ... property.

[Detroitnerd]

I know it's hard for you to believe that conservatives work downtown, have children, and take them to parks, but it's true.

Nonsense. I suggest you recalibrate whatever microscope you are using to read between the lines.

[noise]

My complaint is very legitimate. Every day at lunch I take my daughter for a walk. We USED to go to Grand Circus, but once the occupation took it over we no longer went there. It's now too cold anyway to go outside, but back when it was warmer, we didn't go there.

Yes, I politically don't agree with Occupy folks, I haven't hid that. But also, I wasn't able to use the park so they could go camping.

I know it's hard for you to believe that conservatives work downtown, have children, and take them to parks, but it's true.

Besides that, we've been nice enough to grant them EXCLUSIVE use of the park for a very long time now. We've obliged them, it's time for the occupiers to release this public space back to the public.

Oh no! You couldn't take your daughter to one specific park?!? Do they not know the world revolves around you?

[bopcity]

Ah, something has integrity only if you agree with it? If I'd written a piece of hagiography for HuffPo, you'd be all in favor of it, no?

"NO" would be the correct answer. I'm at a loss as to how you'd arrive at such a conclusion but it's incorrect and further underscores my initial take on your piece. Let's be real: Bullshit's bullshit, whoever happens to be flinging it about.

You claim your report was intended to be honest but I've read far too many descriptions of the disparate OWS sites and most inject the same buzz words, somewhat akin to the pompous Newt's disingenuous "get a job and take a bath" garbage. And I don't believe that's accidental.

Being "lovingly mocked in recent days by Colbert, Stewart and Triumph the Comic Insult Dog from Conan" is nothing unusual; as comedians, Colbert and Stewart spare few sacred cows, though their body of work indicates Colbert's widely circulated "reality has a liberal bias" quote seems far more in line with their actual thinking.

It's a Leftist movement whose organizers sit on the Hard Left, and those insisting it's some populist/centrist groundswell representative over everyone is engaging in the most gross intellectual dishonesty. The anti-capitalism is proudly on display in both Zuccotti Park and Grand Circus Park. Trying to argue otherwise is the worst sort of lie.

I can certainly think of much worse, the latest deceptive tirade of any generic GOP mouthpiece on the news today would probably qualify, take your pick as to which.

There's a difference between being "anti-capitalist" and "anti-crony capitalist"; my feeling is the latter is where the majority of American opinion resides these days.

The Tea Party was a politically effective movement, from an X's and O's mechanical perspective.

Sure, the Tea Party was a politically effective movement, a veritable 'Dick Armey' spearheaded by the former GOP congressman. It's also established fact that it was no spontaneous uprising, it was manufactured and financed by right-wing corporate extremists like the Koch brothers, exploiting racist hatred for a duly elected black president.

Of course, The Economist is to be dismissed as a fascist mouthpiece of the 1 Percent, I'm sure. Right?

The "supercilious entitlement of liberal arts majors aggrieved by the realisation that student loans aren't gifts" quip would tend to support such a belief.

Sitting in a public park and being angry at everything and demanding someone, somewhere, do something about everything isn't exactly following the proven templates for change.

For the sake of giving your comments some semblance of credence, can you please give the dismissive Luntzian rhetoric a rest, for at least a paragraph or two? While you're at it, might you also explain what "the proven templates for change" would be?

To me, the OWS movement is the equivalent of the canary in a coal mine, one could liken it to the first eruption of a long dormant volcano.

Or someone running from a building screaming "Fire!"

I suppose you could stop such a person and explain the proper decorum for advising others that a building was in flames before heeding the warning but the essential message would remain the same, wouldn't it?

I just call it as I see it, and I'm not trying to change minds. I enjoy arguing too much, and am repulsed by the idea of mandatory consensus and ideological purity [[I fit into neither the Republican or Democratic parties, and disagree with Tucker Carlson on many issues). The idea of one-party rule, or single ideology [[such as all Progressive, all the time), nauseates me with fear.

The only contingent I see marching in ideological lock-step is the radical right, and your article just happens to dovetail with that ideology. Strange coincidence, isn't it?

Several links to the "Great Unwashed" for anyone who's interested...

http://www.getmoneyout.com/

http://rebuildthedream.com/

http://movetoamend.org/

"Because something is happening here but you don't know what it is...
Do you, Mister Jones?" - Bob Dylan, "Ballad Of a Thin Man"

[Danny]

My Comrades!


The Occupy Detroit may lose Grand Circus Park, but we not going to lose our occupation in City of Detroit. We will find a promise land to camp and take on those who have a need for greed. The 99 Percenters are on your side my brothers and sisters. We the 99 Percenters will prevail against the powers that be. One day my comrades our socialist mantra will be heard not only in America but also all over the world. We will change the face of human society where everyone will have a home, education, job and free health care. The 99 Percenters are still growing all over the world. World governments and corporations must give in to our cries or face economic failure. Other occupy sites may be pushed out by authorities, but we the 99 Percenters are still occupy anywhere we want. Let the police come. Let them spray us with pepper spray, beat us with their clubs. Let them arrest us and take us to jail. That will not stop us from our protest of peace. Let the greedy corporations mash us to bits. We the 99 Percenters will rise and hundred fold. One my brothers and sisters liberty will come to us. We have a world to win. We have nothing to lose but our chains.


WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

For the 99 Percenters, for the Spirit of Guy Fawkes

Neda, I miss you so.

[bopcity]

My complaint is very legitimate. Every day at lunch I take my daughter for a walk. We USED to go to Grand Circus, but once the occupation took it over we no longer went there. It's now too cold anyway to go outside, but back when it was warmer, we didn't go there.

Weren't the Occupy activities confined to the west side of Woodward? Is there some reason the east side wasn't suitable for your walk? Are the 'occupiers" not part of the public? Sounds to me like you're insisting on having the entire park for your 'EXCLUSIVE' use.

[gnome]

Hold the phone, 48091, only one side of GCP had tents, the east side was occupied by the usual bums and fathers with their daughters. Your complaint is far from legitimate, just because you don't agree with someone politically is no reason you can't walk through the park.

If that was the case, you'd have to ban yourself from Ann Arbor, good chunks of Lansing, Traverse City, parts of Birmingham, all of Ferndale and even slivers of Grosse Pointe.

You're gonna have to come up with something a little better, and that comes from a Republican who first worked on Goldwater's campaign.

[Scottathew]

Oh no! You couldn't take your daughter to one specific park?!? Do they not know the world revolves around you?

So I'm in the wrong because I'm noting that the park wasn't available to me and others for usage.

However, when these people want to indefinitely camp out in the park for months, that's OK?

Your thinking is warped.

[Gistok]

I don't know why anyone would want to take their offspring to that park... every time I pass thru it, it's like playing a game of Packman.... I have to plan a route thru the maze carefully so that I don't get hit up by an endless stream of folks begging for money to get a bus or some food [[of the liquid form)....

Someone please inform me which section of the park is preferable to the OWS section, so I can avoid the unpleasantries of the panhandlers....

[Scottathew]

I don't know why anyone would want to take their offspring to that park...

It's actually a rather nice park. There are the occasional panhandlers, but they're pretty much everywhere, including our beloved Campus Martius.

I take my daughter to various parts downtown that I deem safe. We like to go different places because I take my lunch with her every single day. We frequent Campus Martius the most, but we also like:

Harmonie Park [[On Grand River near Madison)
Hart Plaza \ River Walk
Cadillac Square
Capitol Park [[although there's usually too many bums there)
And the new garden that Compuware built on Michigan next to the Coney's.

Grand Circus was on our list, until the takeover by Occupy. It's a bummer because it's one of the flagship downtown green spaces.

I know people find it offensive that I would dare to want to use a variety of parks so that I can have fun with my child, but that's just the way I am.



Those of you that believe these folks should be allowed to stay and camp there, for how long do you propose? Do you think that there should be a time that the park is given back to the public, or should the Occupiers be allowed indefinite use of the park?

[bopcity]

So I'm in the wrong because I'm noting that the park wasn't available to me and others for usage. However, when these people want to indefinitely camp out in the park for months, that's OK? Your thinking is warped.

Democracy can be messy so pretend you're an Iraqi and learn to share the space, at least no one's shooting at you.

The Occupiers are as much the public as you are, not sure why you don't get that, you could have pretended they were having a big picnic. But from what I've heard the park's been cleared so it's now academic, occupy to your heart's content.

[Scottathew]

The Occupiers are as much the public as you are, not sure why you don't get that, you could have pretended they were having a big picnic. But from what I've heard the park's been cleared so it's now academic, occupy to your heart's content.

Yes, but the access I want is non-exclusive and doesn't prevent others from using the park. The Occupy folks in various cities come in, take over spaces, and don't allow the space to be used by the rest of the public.

I 100% agree with the right of these people to protest, whether I agree with their points or not. However, I'm not quite sure the freedom of speech extends to the freedom to take over public spaces and setup a tent city.

[Lowell]

Packing up on Monday. All gone today and with the cold driving rain I am sure they are glad to be gone.

[Searay215]

Packing up on Monday. All gone today and with the cold driving rain I am sure they are glad to be gone.

OMG.....Where will the homeless go? Where will they eat?.....somebody help.

[noise]

So I'm in the wrong because I'm noting that the park wasn't available to me and others for usage.

However, when these people want to indefinitely camp out in the park for months, that's OK?

Your thinking is warped.

I expect logic would be warped in the mind of the person who sets up false barriers and then complains that they're not getting what they're "entitled" to have.

[antongast]

Do you dispute anything I wrote, or are you just offering up something that almost, but not quite, reaches the level of a balcony bon mot from Waldorf and Statler of The Muppets?

Are you trying to prove yourself to be someone capable of competent, intellectually honest journalism, or are you trying to win Internet Argument points? Not that you're succeeding at either, but.

[bopcity]

Do you dispute anything I wrote, or are you just offering up something that almost, but not quite, reaches the level of a balcony bon mot from Waldorf and Statler of The Muppets?

Excuse me but I believe I did.

[Scottathew]

I expect logic would be warped in the mind of the person who sets up false barriers and then complains that they're not getting what they're "entitled" to have.

False barriers? When you cover nearly every square foot of a public space with tents and temporary structures and turn it into a tent-city, it's no longer a park public use.

[Jimaz]

False barriers? When you cover nearly every square foot of a public space with tents and temporary structures and turn it into a tent-city, it's no longer a park public use.

It's first-come, first-served. What could be more fair than that? If you're late to the party, take your place at the back of the line like everyone else and STFU. The 99% have been relegated to the back of the line for far too long. No more cutting to the front of the line!

No more line-cutting! Take your turn like everyone else.

The 1% are not as privileged as they imagine.

Quit your bitchin' about life being too unfair to the unfairest among us.

And stop using your daughter as a pawn. It makes you look really bad.

[Scottathew]

It's first-come, first-served. What could be more fair than that? If you're late to the party, take your place at the back of the line like everyone else and STFU. The 99% have been relegated to the back of the line for far too long. No more cutting to the front of the line!

No more line-cutting! Take your turn like everyone else.

The 1% are not as privileged as they imagine.

Quit your bitchin' about life being too unfair to the unfairest among us.

And stop using your daughter as a pawn. It makes you look really bad.

My daughter isn't a pawn. It was merely a personal example of how letting a group take over a public space stops other people from using it.

They're using the public space to try to make some kind of political point by occupying it 24/7 for months, denying others the use of the park.

I want to use the public space to enjoy some time with my family. I know telling me to "STFU" really articulates your point so well, but you fail to address the issue. Although it's quite funny, that you don't even want me to articulate my point online, but see no issue with people taking over a park.

Jimaz: Want to express your opinion that's contrary to mine in an online forum? STFU!
Jimaz: Want to express your opinion that I agree with by taking over a public space for months? Go for it!


Seems rather contradictory. I guess you're only for people expressing themselves if they agree with you?

[Jimaz]

Get to the back of the line like everyone else.

No special cuts for you.

[gnome]

The longer you cling to that indefensible position, the sillier you appear. Those people could not have harmed you or your daughter in any way, if not for the simple fact that the CoD provided 24/7 police protection for the last 6 weeks. In fact, I would lay a C note on the fact that GCP has just experienced it's lowest crime rate in 30 years.

That said, you are certainly allowed to harbor any opinion you desire, but I will say that you need some better material.

Come on, you can do better, just believe in yourself ...