June 1 - A Day of Infamy for Detroit

[Toolbox]

Yes, history and would have. Ah the good old days....they certainly were good.

I had to use my ID to badge my way into the office this morning. Something about security they tell me.

-Vin

Hell, the last place I worked I had to badge OUT so I could badge in the next time.

Opressors, meattossers.

[Buy American]

To enroll for a Nexus pass [[a quick way to enter Canada or the U.S.) you have to have an iris scan to verify who you are each time you cross.

[Lowell]

The real 'big deal' of about this is the millions in damage to our economies, the original point of this thread. A freely flowing border with long time friends and allies, ala what the European Union has been able to establish among recent former enemies, would save millions that are being wasted in delays and economic restrictions and earn million in the form of liberated commerce. Tourism in particular would flourish while industry would benefit from savings from not having delays.

If one is looking around for a quick and cost-free way to stimulate our suffering local economies, opening the border via a European Union-style treaty offers that opportunity.

This thread has devolved into a discussion of the 'little deal' of day-to-day life inconveniences created by our restricted border. Those are the extra costs we in Detroit-Windsor pay that other cities our countries don't [and this just not the cost of passports and intrusions into our private lives; it extends to postage stamps, cell roaming fees and more]. It is a secondary argument and, yes, it is not a BIG deal, but they are still a pointless pain in the a**.

[cloud_wall]

The real 'big deal' of about this is the millions in damage to our economies, the original point of this thread. A freely flowing border with long time friends and allies, ala what the European Union has been able to establish among recent former enemies, would save millions that are being wasted in delays and economic restrictions and earn million in the form of liberated commerce. Tourism in particular would flourish while industry would benefit from savings from not having delays.

I don't think there's evidence to support this. The Canadian government supports the passport requirement. A uniform, 1-document system will be better for everyone long term. It will be better for everyone who already has a passport on Day 1. There won't be delays, it will be faster.

So, in large part, the discussion really is about whether getting a passport is a minor or major inconvenience. To those who say it's a major problem that will keep them out of a nice country forever, I say let's trade problems.

The only real problem for industry is the new inspections of agricultural products that have gone into place. This is a major barrier to trade, especially considering that agricultural products must usually be shipped quickly. For SW Ontario, it's a particularly big deal. Hopefully the two countries can settle on a way to target shipments that might be a problem or are known to have been imported to Canada originally from a third-party country.

[Lowell]

There are of tons evidence to support "The real 'big deal' of about this is the millions in damage to our economies, the original point of this thread." If you have ever spent two hours idling on the bridge, as I have, you have seen a microcosm of the millions that are lost by border restrictions. The same thing would never happen if you were crossing between old enemies like France and Germany. You even go on to cite an example with agricultural products yourself albeit it is a slightly different issue. Even if everyone had their papers in order the time suck for id check, trunk snooping and more wastes time and money.

Then there are the millions of tax dollars wasted paying for the guards the xray machines and on and on...

The passport requirement is an annoyance for the common folk with the cost and privacy intrusions that come with requirements to stop for identification. It may be no problem for you or me at our income levels, but it is to a lot of families. It definitely discourages travel and tourism and both sides lose as a result. It stops impulse runs over to Windsor to a restaurant or event or short-cutting to Buffalo, if one leaves his or her passport at home or doesn't have one. Passport application and renewal takes time, money and paying for a mug shot, followed by a long wait. Even when you pay the expedited fee, as I have, it still take a couple of weeks.

It does and will kill commercial exchange and divides our countries.

[Bobl]

And, it does nothing to increase security.
Again, the bad actors will create or purchase bogus IDs, or find an alternative delivery method, perhaps the one mentioned by Lowell in a previous post.

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
Benjamin Franklin

[EastsideAl]

We need open borders now. If I can travel throughout Europe without going through a customs post or a need to show a passport or ID, in a place where, as Lowell correctly points out, millions were killed within living memory and two sides stood walled off in a nuclear standoff for another 45 years, then I should be able to go visit my cousins in Canada and go to my family's cottage there without going through an increasingly unpleasant rigamarole.

The rest of the world is moving towards customs unions and more open borders, but here in our increasingly xenophobic land we are moving in exactly the opposite direction, very much to the detriment of our area. There is no rational reason why the U.S. and Canada, peaceful friends and neighbors for 150 years or more, both first world nations with up-to-date technology and law enforcement, and with our economies already tied together through free trade agreements, shouldn't be in a customs union. This would allow the elimination border crossings posts that not only divide families, friends, and cities like ours, but perhaps more importantly, would speed the travel of goods and services saving millions of dollars a year and help cities on both side of the border - including some of the most depressed places in our country like Detroit and Buffalo. It would also create a cost savings on enforcement, as the two countries could then concentrate their resources on entries from outside, and share information and intelligence on those who enter from elsewhere.

Instead, for reasons that are hard to fathom, we have opted to make it more difficult and costly to cross our border, and have expended untold millions guarding a border that has been peaceful since the War of 1812, creating a wholly unnecessary animosity between two old friends and allies. Our senators and congresspeople, and those of other border areas, as well as MPs and other officials on the Canadian side, should be pushing the Obama administration hard now to move to open our purportedly "friendly" border, rather than continue the insane, costly, and pointless policy of closing it further and making it even more difficult and expensive for people and goods to cross.

[LodgeDodger]

Shall we do the same with our border with Mexico?

[jcole]

Shall we do the same with our border with Mexico?

I'm with you, LD. Those open borders in Europe are largely due to the European Union, so if we're so concerned about an open border with Canada, shouldn't we create a similar North American Union with Canada and Mexico, and share a currency, and pretty much everything else?

[GREENTROIT]

I'm pretty sure the goal IS to make it harder for people to cross the border. Wasn't it just a year ago that immigration and illegal immigrant status was a main national issue?

See, the difference between the German and French border is that Germans wouldn't risk their lives to get to France so they could illegally live there. There isn't a major clamoring by the French people to "escape" France and live in Germany. But hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of Mexicans, Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, Haitians, Guatemalans, Costa Ricans, and even Canadians would love the opportunity to stroll across an American border without questioning and take up illegal residence in the USA, to provide a higher standard of living for themselves and especially their American born children.

I understand that day trips to Windsor are nice. And I take them. It's as easy as showing my Passport, paying my 3 dollars and driving along. But, I have a strong suspicion that the problems that would arise from completely opening our borders would be far more complicated and serious than the problem of getting a Passport or Enhanced-ID. Take what you will from this post, but I'm pretty liberal on border issues and illegal immigrants... I just think that making our borders free and open would open a major can of worms.

[EastsideAl]

and even Canadians

How many Canadians are clamoring to get into the land of no health insurance and the highest medical and pharmaceutical costs in the world?

Open borders in Europe are not just between France and Germany, but also between Poland and Germany, or for that matter, Romania and Hungary or Portugal and Spain. While their has been a fair amount of in-migration between the countries [[far more than there would be between Canada and the U.S. I would think), the overall economic effect has been a positive one. Many of these countries that have far less in common culturally, linguistically, and in terms of a shared peaceful history than the U.S. and Canada do.

The trend here is going against the trend in the entire rest of the world, which is really madness. I've had an easier time crossing into the People's Republic of China or flying between Pakistan and India than some of the pointless grillings I've received at my own border between my two hometowns.

[GREENTROIT]

Off topic... But our high medical costs directly correlate with the best medical care, and best surgeons and doctors in the world.

[ejames01]

If someone has no money, it would matter if it was Jesus himself that was going to heal them.

Off topic... But our high medical costs directly correlate with the best medical care, and best surgeons and doctors in the world.

[EastsideAl]

Off topic... But our high medical costs directly correlate with the best medical care, and best surgeons and doctors in the world.

Which is why we have longer life expectancies and a lower infant mortality rates than those Canadians!

Ummm, hey, wait a minute...

[DetroitDad]

Off topic... But our high medical costs directly correlate with the best medical care, and best surgeons and doctors in the world.

Only relevant if you are one of the ones who can afford medical insurance.

[GREENTROIT]

Oh I'm with yall, healthcare reform should be addressed immediately. Our system's inaccessibility is a joke.

@ EastsideAl... Our healthcare system may not be as efficient or accessible as Canada's, but our healthcare quality is superior.

[cloud_wall]

There are of tons evidence to support "The real 'big deal' of about this is the millions in damage to our economies, the original point of this thread." If you have ever spent two hours idling on the bridge, as I have, you have seen a microcosm of the millions that are lost by border restrictions. The same thing would never happen if you were crossing between old enemies like France and Germany. You even go on to cite an example with agricultural products yourself albeit it is a slightly different issue. Even if everyone had their papers in order the time suck for id check, trunk snooping and more wastes time and money.

So your evidence is that one time BEFORE the passport requirement you sat in traffic for two hours at the bridge? First, the 1-document system will definitely speed up crossing times. Second, I had no idea there was such a strong inverse correlation between economic health and traffic jams. Must be why SE Michigan is thriving while it's cities and highways empty, and Chicago, LA, NY and DC are doomed.

I don't mean to be a jerk, but I agree with you overall that a sense of regionalism should include the SW Ontario area. I think it's important that we promote that within the framework of political reality, however.

Also, the US-Canada trade relationship is the world's most successful, and protecting it is of foremost importance to our respective governments. Both nations support the passport requirement. Probably with reasons and evidence as a basis.

Lastly, your comparison to the EU is not apples to apples. The EU has uniform standards on imports, immigration, etc. The US and Canada, although our standards are similar, do not have such a unified system. Therefore, we can't just let anything that was good enough for Canada come over our border unchecked. There's a big difference. I'd also be interested in seeing the percentage of EU'ers who carry passports despite their ability to pass through EU borders freely.

[Bobl]

First day of new U.S. border rules goes smoothly -- From USA Today:

No delays were reported at Detroit's two crossings with Ontario, Canada— the Ambassador Bridge and the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel — or at the Blue Water Bridge in Port Huron, Mich.



http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/...=DailyBriefing

June 15:
Bluewater Bridge traffic is lined up for a mile, with a wait exceeding an hour and a half today, according to WWJ Radio Traffic Reports.
The agents were taking a very lenient stance the first few days, allowing those with only a license and birth certificate through, with a reminder that secure ID or passport would be necessary "next time".

[irish_mafia]

I have my new Nexus card coming up. $50 per adult and $0 for the kids....good for 5 years. Expedited passage for car, air and most importantly boat.

All sounds good. i will let you know how it works