General Motors is BANKRUPT!

[Blarf]

Now please tell me what exactly is the reason for having a car shipped [[whether whole or in pieces) from halfway across the world?

Toyotas built in Mississippi and Tennessee and shipped from halfway across the world?

[mjs]

I do my best to support American products when I can. . . It is getting next to impossible to do so, but when it comes to supporting the Big 3, that's where I do have a choice and I choose to support my fellow Americans, what some of you do is your business. I say Buy American automobiles. I've said this since I joined this forum and will continue to do so.

You didn't do your best when buying a computer.

Whoa there big fella...your screen name is "Buy American" and you continually rail about how people should buy American products and now you're talking about buying a Mac? A computer whose parts are from a different country and is assembled in a different country? How about if you put your money where your big mouth is and buy one of these computers assembled in the USA with American union workers...
http://www.unionbuiltpc.com/home.php

Remember what you computer you buy, computes America.

Thanks again for all the advice, both pro and con. I am sold on the Mac.

Look, I agree that what people buy is their own business. I'm not the one writing "OUT OF A JOB YET? KEEP BUYING FOREIGN". I agree with supporting American vehicles, but I mean American made vehicles and you mean vehicles that add to the big three's bottom line. Have all of your "American" vehicles been assembled in the US? Doesn't buying a US assembled vehicle do the most to support your fellow Americans? Your numerous posts state that point of assembly need not be a consideration.

[Buy American]

Good. Now shut up and stop telling people to buy American.

Barf.....that's what you make me feel like doing.

[Blarf]

Hopefully you clean it up with American made cleaning products.

[Danny]

"Buy American" It hard to buy American when globalization is the norm in our capitalistic society. When I go shopping, I looked at the tag on a paticular shirt and I see "Made in China". Or I go to a Radio Shack and look into a model information for a digital camera and see "Made in Japan" letters on it. Or when I car shopping at FORD dealership and I see 2010 Focus car model. It 's got FORD brand on it but the parts are made from oversees. Same goes with General Motors and Chrysler.

WORD FROM THE GHETTO!

There is NO " Made in the U.S.A." anymore.

[Danny]

Here's a good ole' American tip for you all. Tell your friends not park their foreign cars in your driveway. American driveways are American car owners ONLY!

[mjs]

I doubt BuyAmerican is suggesting that we must purchase every single item from a domestic source. That's simply not feasible in today's global economy. A better suggestion is to "buy American" whenever a quality built American made product is available. Fortunately there is no shortage of quality cars designed and manufactured right here in Metro Detroit!

So, I want a Civic Hybrid. I've been waiting seven fricken years for Detroit to make a competing model. I've settled on buying two used GM vehicles in that time. How long do I have to wait for my compact hybrid! GM says we don't want your business, your market is beneath us, and I'm supposed to say that I insist? I need to keep taking second best on what you guys keep saying is the second biggest purchase I can make so someone making more than me can go to another company event?

[Buy American]

No, he's not. He only cares if people buy American made cars. The rest of the trappings of daily life that are made in China, Mexico, Europe and God knows where else don't matter to him. He doesn't work for their industries.

I don't work for the Big 3 either.

[jcole]

Tier One or Two supplier?

[mjs]

He works or worked for local government. He's trying to protect the local tax base. He supports Michigan keeping all their eggs in one basket and vigorously protecting that basket. Its apparent if you replace American with Michigan in every post he's ever posted. A supplier would have cared more about where the parts were coming from.

[jcole]

Thanks, MJS, makes sense. I'm all for Michigan and America,too, but it's like the Singer sewing machine. For a long time they claimed to be the only American made sewing machine on the market. Fine, but every single part was made overseas, and they were even mostly assembled in Great Britain. When almost done, they came back here and got a 'Assembled in America' sticker slapped on them. The company was American OWNED, not really supporting our economy or workers.

[Johnnny5]

Toyotas built in Mississippi and Tennessee and shipped from halfway across the world?

That's strange I don't remember saying they were? I can tell you that when you buy one you sure as hell are not saving or creating any jobs here in Metro Detroit!

So, I want a Civic Hybrid. I've been waiting seven fricken years for Detroit to make a competing model. I've settled on buying two used GM vehicles in that time. How long do I have to wait for my compact hybrid! GM says we don't want your business, your market is beneath us, and I'm supposed to say that I insist? I need to keep taking second best on what you guys keep saying is the second biggest purchase I can make so someone making more than me can go to another company event?

If you "Want a Honda Civic Hybrid" this is America and you are free to buy one. My point is that there are consequences to our actions and purchases. It's not just those "going to company events" who will suffer with the loss of our auto industry.

[mjs]

Johnny5, your argument is why its not already in my driveway. I don't mind people like you pointing out the advantage to Michiganders of buying Michigan manufactured products or to Americans in buying American manufactured products. I do mind hypocritical people misrepresenting things to villanize those that choose otherwise after carefully taking all relevant factors into account.

[Blarf]

If you "Want a Honda Civic Hybrid" this is America and you are free to buy one. My point is that there are consequences to our actions and purchases. It's not just those "going to company events" who will suffer with the loss of our auto industry.

Why does their have to be consequences to our actions as consumers?

Why doesn't the blame get shifted to these American car companies instead? If they ran their businesses and marketing properly and offered products people want to buy over the competitors, there wouldn't be a problem.

[Johnnny5]

Why does their have to be consequences to our actions as consumers?

Why doesn't the blame get shifted to these American car companies instead? If they ran their businesses and marketing properly and offered products people want to buy over the competitors, there wouldn't be a problem.

The main causes for GM and Chrysler's recent downfall are not the result of poor business practices, lack of product lineup or faulty marketing strategies. Over the past 5 years GM has improved in all of those areas, yet they still went bankrupt. Toyota and Honda are also suffering record losses, they simply have the financial backing to make it though.
Rapid increases in health care costs [[While the Japanese and South Koreans have some of the lowest cost systems in the industrialized world), a failed credit market and worldwide decrease in demand, record setting fuel and material costs [[As a result of market speculation) and strengthened environmental requirements have all sent G.M over the cliff. G.M is to blame for many short sighted decisions they made in the past, but recent events triggered the implosion.

[Buy American]

Why does their have to be consequences to our actions as consumers?

Why doesn't the blame get shifted to these American car companies instead? If they ran their businesses and marketing properly and offered products people want to buy over the competitors, there wouldn't be a problem.

Why are there consequences?

This is hopeless.

[Det_ard]

So, I want a Civic Hybrid. I've been waiting seven fricken years for Detroit to make a competing model. I've settled on buying two used GM vehicles in that time. How long do I have to wait for my compact hybrid! GM says we don't want your business, your market is beneath us, and I'm supposed to say that I insist? I need to keep taking second best on what you guys keep saying is the second biggest purchase I can make so someone making more than me can go to another company event?

Are you aware of the Ford Fusion Hybrid? Similar quality to the Honda, a few thousand more on the MSRP but that difference may be minimal in the real world. The Fusion gets better city MPG while being a foot longer, several inches wider and significantly heavier. It has a larger trunk and holds 17 gallons of fuel vs 12 for the Civic, meaning the Fusion's range is almost 700 miles. The Honda gets better highway MPG but overall they're very close on efficiency.

[Blarf]

Rapid increases in health care costs [[While the Japanese and South Koreans have some of the lowest cost systems in the industrialized world), a failed credit market and worldwide decrease in demand, record setting fuel and material costs [[As a result of market speculation) and strengthened environmental requirements have all sent G.M over the cliff. G.M is to blame for many short sighted decisions they made in the past, but recent events triggered the implosion.

So basically no car companies aren't profitable?

In that case, even if we did buy American cars only, the companies would still be bankrupt and it wouldn't matter?

[East Detroit]

There is NO " Made in the U.S.A." anymore.

Sure there is. And the arguments that buying local doesn't matter because you can't buy everything local are really lame.

I actually look at the labels. Sometimes it works. Some PENN tennis balls for my dog, some Pinnacle golf balls for me to lose in the woods, some Duracell batteries, etc. Takes a couple extra seconds to look and I do and then remember. And I feel good about it.

I also have a mental hierarchy I use when I can't find "Made in the USA".... "Made in Canada" comes next... then "Made in Mexico"..... and "Made in China" is close to the bottom of that list.

It's not easy, as some point out, but what's the effort?

This book is an interesting case study of the challenge:
A Year Without "Made in China": One Family's True Life Adventure in the Global Economy

[mjs]

Are you aware of the Ford Fusion Hybrid? Similar quality to the Honda, a few thousand more on the MSRP but that difference may be minimal in the real world. The Fusion gets better city MPG while being a foot longer, several inches wider and significantly heavier. It has a larger trunk and holds 17 gallons of fuel vs 12 for the Civic, meaning the Fusion's range is almost 700 miles. The Honda gets better highway MPG but overall they're very close on efficiency.

I looked at buying American from every possible angle. The American assembled Civic hybrid gets 20% better highway mpg for more than $6600 less than the Mexican assembled Fusion hybrid. On top of it, I don't need anything bigger than a compact. I'm not 7' tall, I'm not 300 lbs, I rarely ever have more than one passenger, and I don't understand why anyone needs to drive over 500 miles between fill ups. I'll take my second choice for a third time and get a Focus and try again in another seven years.

You guys do know that the saying whats good for GM is good for America first came from Secretary of Defense "Engine Charlie" Wilson when a congressional subcommittee asked him if after being GM CEO, he could make ant Defense decisions that were detrimental to GM. Ever wonder if we'd be at war in Iraq if our vehicles were far more fuel efficient? Whats good for GM can be very bad for America.

http://www.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/edmu...op=3&tab=print