RIP Detroit Public Schools

**R8RBOB** · September-20-11, 07:13 AM

I caught this story in the News this morning - http://www.detnews.com/article/20110...1-500-teachers and I haven't been up to date with what's going on with DPS. It looks like the state have a new bureaucracy called the the Education Achievement Authority in which bad schools are managed by the state [[question: is this the GOP idea of small government?)

We know that DPS has been on the edge of the cliff and now with teachers stated to be reduced by 40% and schools slated to be handed over to the state I have two questions.
1) Will the state forgive some of the debt that occurred at DPS now at $327 million?
2) Will the state do a better job of running schools inside Detroit?

**casscorridor** · September-20-11, 07:19 AM

1) No
2) No

**R8RBOB** · September-20-11, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by casscorridor

1) No
2) No

I have the same answers LOL

**Danny** · September-20-11, 07:32 AM

Detroit Public Schools remains super stuck in its debt forever! The system needs to reform and so is its students coming from broken homes and the ghettohoods of Detroit. But DPS still have some eductional power towards its students. Their high schools like Rennaisance, MLK, and Western International and Cass Tech is still in its best performace ever. Their magnet middle schools doing well and its elementary school had made some improvements to give the students the educational requirements they need for brighter future for college and beyond the workforce. Former EFM dictator Robert Bobb make sure financial situation of DPS is taken care of. I went to talk to this 12 years African American boy who lives in Taylor. He likes to go to Cass Tech High School for its educational performance then going to any high school in the suburbs. I would like to see some parents from the suburbs to do the same. DPS is a struggling school district, but still can educate its students.

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

I'm #174 Danny and I'm a Detroit Public School graduate Cody High School and Randolph Vocational Techical Career Center 2003.

Neda, I miss you so

**Kevgoblue** · September-20-11, 02:48 PM

Here's the comment from the article I found to be most interesting:

"Under Snyder's plan, the EAA will manage the schools, but DPS will own and maintain the buildings and any debt service. Funding for the EAA may come from state per-pupil aid — $7,390 per child this year."

The EAA gets to manage the schools. Most likely with brand new teachers / administrators, as existing teachers would not get to keep their seniority and benefits. But DPS retains ownership of the cost to maintain the building and pay off current debt. And this would apply to 40 schools, including 16 of the 20 high schools.

So roughly 1/3 of the student population will transfer over to the EEA. DPS will keep 100% of its fixed costs and lose a third of its funding. EEA will get the 1/3 funding and have zero fixed costs.

I see a trainwreck coming on the horizon.

**R8RBOB** · September-20-11, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by Kevgoblue

Here's the comment from the article I found to be most interesting:

"Under Snyder's plan, the EAA will manage the schools, but DPS will own and maintain the buildings and any debt service. Funding for the EAA may come from state per-pupil aid — $7,390 per child this year."

The EAA gets to manage the schools. Most likely with brand new teachers / administrators, as existing teachers would not get to keep their seniority and benefits. But DPS retains ownership of the cost to maintain the building and pay off current debt. And this would apply to 40 schools, including 16 of the 20 high schools.

So roughly 1/3 of the student population will transfer over to the EEA. DPS will keep 100% of its fixed costs and lose a third of its funding. EEA will get the 1/3 funding and have zero fixed costs.

I see a trainwreck coming on the horizon.

This is the result when the state can put a puppet in place to rubberstamp every state mandate.

**firstandten** · September-20-11, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

This is the result when the state can put a puppet in place to rubberstamp every state mandate.

Yes that is the effect but what about the cause. Local control lost its way with petty politics and corruption. The number of City of Detroit,DPS employees and vendors going to jail could fill up a wing of a good sized prison. Now is too late to be crying about loss of local control. Hopefully if we ever get control of the schools back from the state Detroiters will approach things differently.

**Thames** · September-20-11, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

This is the result when the state can put a puppet in place to rubberstamp every state mandate.

No.This is the result of a government entity being so over run with corruption that the state government had to step in.

**mikefmich** · September-20-11, 08:18 PM

This kinda stuff gives me a headache. At one time, Detroit had one of the premier school systems in the country. At this point, I wouldn't send my dog to being schooled there.

Like so much else Detroit, I have no answers, only tears.

**DetroitTeacher** · September-20-11, 09:59 PM

The uncertainty is what worries me. Who is to say who stays and who goes? I know I am a good teacher and put everything I have into my kids. I just don't think anyone, besides the kids and the people I directly work with, knows this. I think I'll start having my kids and their parents write me some letters of recommendation. I really don't think that getting rid of the folks who care the most about the kids is the answer. We need to look at the top-heavy admin who are stealing from the kids [[in essence). I really think they are targeting the wrong folks in the slash and dash movement.

No one I have spoken with, in the teaching field, is willing to teach in Detroit because of all of the issues and the uncertainty of every day life in DPS. One day you're here, the next you're gone, the next day after that, you're back and then gone again by the end of the day. It's craziness. I don't even know of any newbie teachers willing to risk working for such a jacked up system. What's left right now are we die-hards who really believe in the kids [[teachers and building admin). The rest have gone on to safer pastures.

**R8RBOB** · September-20-11, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitTeacher

The uncertainty is what worries me. Who is to say who stays and who goes? I know I am a good teacher and put everything I have into my kids. I just don't think anyone, besides the kids and the people I directly work with, knows this. I think I'll start having my kids and their parents write me some letters of recommendation. I really don't think that getting rid of the folks who care the most about the kids is the answer. We need to look at the top-heavy admin who are stealing from the kids [[in essence). I really think they are targeting the wrong folks in the slash and dash movement.

No one I have spoken with, in the teaching field, is willing to teach in Detroit because of all of the issues and the uncertainty of every day life in DPS. One day you're here, the next you're gone, the next day after that, you're back and then gone again by the end of the day. It's craziness. I don't even know of any newbie teachers willing to risk working for such a jacked up system. What's left right now are we die-hards who really believe in the kids [[teachers and building admin). The rest have gone on to safer pastures.

DetroitTeacher, I understand your concern. I have mention many times over that upon my return from California, I got a contract job working for DPS and I had to go to the schools throughout the city. I have to admit that the kids and their conduct made me miserable, scared for our very future. l would meet and engage with a number of teachers through my journeys and I feel for the teachers because there are teachers who do care for the kids and they along the children are the scapegoats for the crooks who bled DPS dry.

Back to the teachers, I remember one in particular. I can't remember her name but she was in the computer lab teacher at Burton International. I remember her because she was selling bags of Better Made and candy in the lab when I was doing the inventory of PCs. The students respected her and I had to take notice that she cared for her students. Sadly, she was killed in a car accident when two idiots decided to drag race. The accident made the news and I knew the teacher when they showed her face.

I, being a product of DPS is sad that our school system has come to this.

**firstandten** · September-20-11, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitTeacher

The uncertainty is what worries me. Who is to say who stays and who goes? I know I am a good teacher and put everything I have into my kids. I just don't think anyone, besides the kids and the people I directly work with, knows this. I think I'll start having my kids and their parents write me some letters of recommendation. I really don't think that getting rid of the folks who care the most about the kids is the answer. We need to look at the top-heavy admin who are stealing from the kids [[in essence). I really think they are targeting the wrong folks in the slash and dash movement.
.

If the state district works like the Louisiana Recovery District, probably everyone will get fired teachers and administrators. The Mich school district will probably put on a nationwide full court press to hire teachers [[teach for america, etc).

My suggestion is if you're not at CT or Renaissance or a Bates type school, you will almost certainly be put into this state recovery district. I would spend this year updating the portfolio and getting letters of recommendation for the interviewing I'm sure will happen.

**Novine** · September-20-11, 11:29 PM

Did everyone forget that the state took over the district when Engler was in office? How did that work out?

**firstandten** · September-20-11, 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by Novine

Did everyone forget that the state took over the district when Engler was in office? How did that work out?

Not very well. However that state takeover and this state takeover are as different as night and day. This state takeover is a lot more draconian in nature

**corktownyuppie** · September-21-11, 12:48 AM

Originally Posted by Novine

Did everyone forget that the state took over the district when Engler was in office? How did that work out?

I wasn't following Detroit politics when Engler was around, so I can't speak intelligently to that question. But comparing today's state takeover to that state takeover is like blaming Obama for the actions of Richard Nixon. Or blaming Reagan for the actions of LBJ.

Plus, the state isn't taking over the whole district, right? It's just the failing schools statewide? Detroit's not getting singled out here. And once the failing schools moves out of the "bottom tier", they go back to home rule.

**Novine** · September-21-11, 06:08 AM

The question isn't about blaming anyone. It's pointing out that the previous comments cheering the state takeover and blaming local officials:

1. Don't remember how poorly the state managed the last takeover.
2. What a mess the state left behind for local officials when control was returned to them.

I'm not going to defend the incompetence and ineptitude of the work done by some in DPS over the past decade. But the idea that a state takeover leads to better days isn't matched by the experience of the state taking over DPS last time. But I suppose those who fail to learn from history....

**R8RBOB** · September-21-11, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

I wasn't following Detroit politics when Engler was around, so I can't speak intelligently to that question. But comparing today's state takeover to that state takeover is like blaming Obama for the actions of Richard Nixon. Or blaming Reagan for the actions of LBJ.

Plus, the state isn't taking over the whole district, right? It's just the failing schools statewide? Detroit's not getting singled out here. And once the failing schools moves out of the "bottom tier", they go back to home rule.

I think what the comment was suggesting that the last time the state took over DPS had a bond of $1.5 billion voted by the citizens and by the time DPS was turned over to local control, the money was gone and the deficit was growing.

cy, the state has controlled the whole district since Jennifer Granholm declared a financial emergency and brought in Robert Bobb in 2009. As for this newest bureaucracy, it was created with Detroit in mind. Name another school district that has 20 high schools? As for the schools going back to "home-rule" well first Detroit must find a way to pay down the $327 million that floats above its head. Final thought: when Jenny called Bobb to the rescue, the debt was around $200 million give or take. Funny how the state's EFM added over $100 million to the debt. As I stated earlier, I wish the state all the best.

**kraig** · September-21-11, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

I wasn't following Detroit politics when Engler was around, so I can't speak intelligently to that question. But comparing today's state takeover to that state takeover is like blaming Obama for the actions of Richard Nixon. Or blaming Reagan for the actions of LBJ.

Plus, the state isn't taking over the whole district, right? It's just the failing schools statewide? Detroit's not getting singled out here. And once the failing schools moves out of the "bottom tier", they go back to home rule.

Before the state took over the first time, DPS had a budget surplus and the test scores were more competitive. When the state took over, test scores went down, the surplus got wiped out, a deficit took its place and the district was left in a worse position than when the state took over. Flash forward to Robert Bobb taking over and you have the same thing. Test scores went down and the deficit grew.

The single biggest reason that the state takes over DPS is due to the district's ability to borrow huge amounts of money. There was 1.5 billion in bonds when Engler took it over. Which made for good living for the no bid contract crowd. When Bobb took over, the district borrowed 500 million to build new schools. And of course, Bobb got to choose the contractors. No one involved in these takeovers has given a damn about the kids or their education. It's all about the money.

**fryar** · September-21-11, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitTeacher

I don't even know of any newbie teachers willing to risk working for such a jacked up system. What's left right now are we die-hards who really believe in the kids [[teachers and building admin).

The following excerpts from the article were striking in this regard:

The district has about 3,800 teachers this fall, down from 6,230 five years ago.

[[Detroit Federation of Teachers president Keith) Johnson said about 1,900 DPS teachers are eligible to retire.

**detroitbob66** · September-20-11, 11:48 PM

My question here is HOW THE HELL is DPS so much in debt, but yet they PAID for the demolition of Finney, Chadsey, Munger, Earhart, King, and Cass Tech. Then they still have money left to BUILD BRAND NEW schools for Finney, Munger, Earhart, MacKenzie, King, and Mumford. NOW THAT DOESNT MAKE A BIT OF SENSE!

bartock · September-21-11, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by detroitbob66

My question here is HOW THE HELL is DPS so much in debt, but yet they PAID for the demolition of Finney, Chadsey, Munger, Earhart, King, and Cass Tech. Then they still have money left to BUILD BRAND NEW schools for Finney, Munger, Earhart, MacKenzie, King, and Mumford. NOW THAT DOESNT MAKE A BIT OF SENSE!

The monies come from different sources.

**louis** · September-21-11, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by detroitbob66

My question here is HOW THE HELL is DPS so much in debt, but yet they PAID for the demolition of Finney, Chadsey, Munger, Earhart, King, and Cass Tech. Then they still have money left to BUILD BRAND NEW schools for Finney, Munger, Earhart, MacKenzie, King, and Mumford. NOW THAT DOESNT MAKE A BIT OF SENSE!

the same way we can aford to build a new bridge. with someone elses money

**R8RBOB** · September-21-11, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by louis

the same way we can aford to build a new bridge. with someone elses money

Well said. OPM is the lifeline of doing things in America.

**maxx** · September-21-11, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by louis

the same way we can aford to build a new bridge. with someone elses money

Rich people build stadiums with other people's money.

**kraig** · September-21-11, 03:35 PM

Above all else, no matter who's in charge, the teachers need to be allowed to teach. The most disappointing part, IMHO, has been that no matter who's been in charge, the teachers have been under constant attack. I've seen King and Southeastern improve dramatically when the teachers were left alone. I've also seen both schools take dramatic downturns just as fast due to interference with the teachers. The teacher/student relationship is what makes or breaks an education. Hopefully someone in charge will put that aspect of the system as a higher priority than the contractual issues.