Suspected Copper Thief Shot Dead In Palmer Park...

[Danny]

The deadly shooting of the cooper theives was NOT justified. The guard should have warned him to leave the property or face arrest. If the copper theif had pulled a weapon as an attack against the gaurd and shot the theif. The shooting is justified.

[Mackinaw]

A+ Danny. Neither justified nor defensible, indeed.

I understand and agree with the sentiments about how this disrupts the peace of mind in a neighborhood and could lead people towards anger and violence, quite justifiably. But murder is not under that umbrella. Further, the theory does not hold water here because a security guard, charged to cooly and calmly deal with these situations [[or, better yet, take measures to prevent them), committed the act, not an enraged homeowner.

But yes, all of this property crime creates an intolerable sense of vulnerability and constant assault which cannot stand. Some creative solutions are needed, because it appears the police cannot help, as was the case during 2008-9 when some nice homes in GP Park and such went vacant and were promptly scrapped; an initial wave of crime occurred, but a proper response that basically shut it down followed. It also helped, of course, that the vacated homes were quickly resold.

Now, perhaps private security guards in more well-to-do neighborhoods could be the alternate solution for the lack of police action. But this news account suggests that some other solutions still need to be found.

Again, prosecutorial action against the source of the demand may be best, and it is hard to explain why it has not been taken.

[Det_ard]

It [[legally) cannot be used for piping hot water where it's under pressure. Though you could probably use CPVC if codes permit.

Most are using PEX these days. Cheaper than copper, freeze-proof, and no scrap value.

[Wesley Mouch]

Scrappers are pests and criminals, sure, but they are only mainfestations of a much larger problem: the growing poverty in our region. This guy should have been prosecuted, as should people who buy the stuff, but it's too bad he had to die.

He didn't have to die.

Alternatives exist. He could have chosen them. There are soup kitchens, churches, shelters, etc. He chose to steal.

[Wesley Mouch]

Are you trying put more trash this city's streets? One thing you never really see lying around in Detroit is anything that has deposit on it and that is largely thanks to deposit law. The redempetion rate is 97%, if any thing the should be expanded to include bottle water and juices

If anything, the deposit should be indexed UP with the inflation rate. 10 cents back when the deposit was put into effect was about the same as 25 cents now. This would also help encourage use of non-disposable containers.

[Kevgoblue]

A copper thief doesn't steal copper, he steals a person's sense of control, of self-worth, of vunerability. Come home and the copper-thieves have fed on the house down the street - or next door - and a man worries that he will be next. He worries for his wife, his life. He buys a gun and prays not to use it.

My house is occupied. So the copper thief that gutted the house next door did not substantially increase my fear that mine may be next. Therefore fear for my life and my wife have not increased either.

What I do fear however is that the copper theif has rendered this house next door uninhabitable. So now I'm wondering different things about the house next door. Previously I was wondering if the new neigbors will be nice or not, if they'll have kids, if a slumlord would buy it as an income property, etc. Now I'm just concerned as to whether this house will sell at all. Or if I will wind up next door to a home that needs repairs that cost more than the house is worth. If the house will turn into the next squatter's haven or drug den.

The copper theif has done much more damage to the neighborhood than to my personal psyche.

[Carey]

Wesley:

Yeah, he chose to steal a thing, a piece of material. But the guard made a choice, too: He chose to execute the thief. The guard's choice could get him a prison term.

I also sympathize with that homeowner on the east side who shot the burglar after he had been burglarized a few times. But he shot the thief as the thief was retreating, and now the homeowner is in prison. Society takes the killing of people much more seriously than the stealing of things, as it should, though I guess those laws will be changed if some of the people on this thread have their way.

[Lowell]

^ Agreed. The administration of punishment must be by the law. Punishment must fit the crime and it is not the prerogative on any one to execute another human being except in the case of self-defense or protection of another life. Lawlessness will never be ended by more lawlessness.

That said the punishments for these acts or receiving of the their stolen properties, like my catalytic converter lol, need to be stiffened.

But there are no laws against gratifying fantasies of punishments. One such is the fate of captured gold 'scavenger' Spanish conquistadors who were said to have been executed by having molten gold poured down their throats. After a fair trial of course.

[Jimaz]

... like my catalytic converter lol, ...

Has anyone here tried a Cat Clamp? Do they work?

[7miledog]

Kym Worthy is on the case....

http://www.freep.com/article/2011092...text|FRONTPAGE

[Carey]

Here's the key phrase from the article: "Stephens said the police investigation indicates Khalil shot Jones as he appeared to be leaving the building."

There's clearly a lot of unaswered questions in this case, but Khalil's decision to execute a scrapper looks like it was a bad one.