Grosse Pointe Shores to join Macomb County?

[kraig]

This is very interesting. Depending on the logistics of it, this could turn out to be an easy sale to the Pointers. If the selling point is that they would not have to continue to share their school system with Harper Woods, which is on its way to becoming majority black, they may go for it in a big way. My sister and brother-in-law moved to the Pointes when they got married and had to constantly provide documentation to the schools proving that they were residents of the Pointes and that their kids were eligible to attend the schools there. They finally reached a point were they not only had filed a suit against the school system. But they also filed suits against a number of individual parents for harassing their children. At which point their particular problems stopped. But I can imagine that this same type of harassment has increased with Harper Woods black population growing. Therefore, a lot of residents would probably gladly vote for anything that would provide them more leverage in that regard.

As far as county services and taxes go. As a proud Detroiter and resident of Wayne County that owns property in Wayne, Oakland, Macomb and St. Clair Counties. I have to admit that Wayne County [[and this is just going by County Services not the City of Detroit) probably provides the least as far as services go. True, Wayne County services seem to be a little bit better the Southern and Western parts of the county. But it sucks in the northeastern part of the county, which is where the Pointes are located.

Meanwhile, I would say that you receive more bang for your buck from Wayne County than the other three, with St. Clair County pulling in at a close second.

By the way Detroitnerd, I'm with you on the walkable cities stuff. I don't know if you ever have, but check out Utica, Romeo and Armada in Macomb County. All three have some nice walkable areas. Romeo is good for having a lot of themed festivals as well [[Hey, I love pushing Michigan). I think you'll enjoy yourself.

[Gistok]

Anyone here actually live in GPS so we can get an opinion from an actual resident?

I believe only The_Rock is from there....

[Detroitnerd]

By the way Detroitnerd, I'm with you on the walkable cities stuff. I don't know if you ever have, but check out Utica, Romeo and Armada in Macomb County. All three have some nice walkable areas. Romeo is good for having a lot of themed festivals as well [[Hey, I love pushing Michigan). I think you'll enjoy yourself.

Well, the country Detroitnerds live out in Ray Center, and it's been a while since I've been out there, so my experiences out that way have been mostly rural. I went to a fruit fest in Armada once, but it's hard to see the day-to-day life when it's festival time. I'll give it another shot when I'm out that way.

[Gistok]

Kraig... good point about the school system... this affects the Woods and the Shores much more than the Farms, CIty and Park.... since most of kids in the Woods and Shores would attend public school at Grosse Pointe North, where Harper Woods students attend. Those in the Farms, City and Park attend GPS, which is mainly students from those cities.

And for that very reason I could see a scenario where the Woods and Shores opted to unite and become part of Macomb County... and having a separate school district.... sans the Harper Woods students. The pressure to unite would be less for the Farms, City and Park, which uses Grosse Pointe South High School.

[Goose]

http://www.grossepointenews.com/Arti...ol-briefs.html


this is the worry that residents of grosse pointe have... call it racism, call it classism, call it bigotry, call it all of these, but call it reality....

why is poupard school, in the same school district, same curriculum, same teacher hiring practices... ranked so low?

now the state wants to split the GP's into to representative districts, and has proposed allowing any non-resident access to their schools.... maybe they are looking at every and all options to be able to retain some control of their communities....

i know to many this will all just boil down to racism.... thats so easy to say and it's a very popular way to degrade a position today......

[BrushStart]

If the Shores wants to "merge" with Macomb County, so be it. I don't care.

But, that doesn't mean the rest of the Pointes get to join Macomb County, too, even if they do merge into one. Just consider how ridiculous that idea is.

Perhaps Canton, Plymouth, and Livonia should all merge together and join Washtenaw County. Better yet, why doesn't Detroit decide it's going to merge with Oakland County? Maybe every city can merge with into a bordering county and we can all just forget about Wayne County. Come to think of it, the entire state should just merge into a single county, then we'll have nothing to talk about.

This whole idea is nothing but stupid gamesmanship. If people really cared about lowering taxes, they would move to eliminate the entire lame-ass county system that does absolutely nothing for us but waste money. You know what else would lower taxes? Combining municipal services just like our Republican, I repeat, Republican governor has suggested. Yet, nobody wants to truly make any sacrifice. People croon and croon for lower taxes, but they want to give up nothing. Well, it just doesn't work that way.

[Scottathew]

Interesting proposal. I'm a Macomb county resident and I would welcome the the Pointes.

[Bham1982]

Notwithstanding popular perception, the Pointes are rather distinct from one another, and I would not be surprised if there were considerable resistance to consolidation.

GP Shores, for example, is VERY different from GP Woods, which is VERY different from GP Park.

GP City and Farms are pretty close, though, at least in terms of basic demographics/economics.

I don't know if folks would want to be part of Macomb, but I could see the frustration re. their complete political irrelevence. They are basically a political appendage of Detroit, and presently have no chance of effective representation in the U.S. House.

[mwilbert]

How would changing what county they are in affect their congressional representation? Michigan congressional districts don't honor county lines as far as I can tell.

[DetroitPole]

The Pointes are indeed very different socio-economically from one another.

However, this isn't going to be popular, but uh, you see, there are many people who believe...who may have the impression...that...Macomb County is white trash with money. There is also some truths to stereotypes.

If anything, the Grosse Pointes have more in common with the older affluent Oakland County suburbs except for the Jewish part. Further, Grosse Pointers at least historically, and disproportionately today have been professionals who work downtown. This is emphatically not true for MC.

I really doubt anything will come of this. GP may be poorly represented, but it really is a small population despite its wealth, history, and influence.

[iheartthed]

How would changing what county they are in affect their congressional representation? Michigan congressional districts don't honor county lines as far as I can tell.

It won't. Michigan doesn't.

[JBMcB]

GP Shores, for example, is VERY different from GP Woods, which is VERY different from GP Park.
GP City and Farms are pretty close, though, at least in terms of basic demographics/economics.

This is somewhat over-generalizing. Within the distinct Pointes there is a fairly large range of economic levels that overlap quite a bit. There are relatively inexpensive single family detached homes in GPW, and equally inexpensive duplexes in GPF. There are large mansions and cheap apartments in nearly all of them.

You could say that, overall, one city might have more expensive houses than the other - but I wouldn't call them extremely different.

[bartock]

If the Shores wants to "merge" with Macomb County, so be it. I don't care.

But, that doesn't mean the rest of the Pointes get to join Macomb County, too, even if they do merge into one. Just consider how ridiculous that idea is.

Perhaps Canton, Plymouth, and Livonia should all merge together and join Washtenaw County. Better yet, why doesn't Detroit decide it's going to merge with Oakland County? Maybe every city can merge with into a bordering county and we can all just forget about Wayne County. Come to think of it, the entire state should just merge into a single county, then we'll have nothing to talk about.

This whole idea is nothing but stupid gamesmanship. If people really cared about lowering taxes, they would move to eliminate the entire lame-ass county system that does absolutely nothing for us but waste money. You know what else would lower taxes? Combining municipal services just like our Republican, I repeat, Republican governor has suggested. Yet, nobody wants to truly make any sacrifice. People croon and croon for lower taxes, but they want to give up nothing. Well, it just doesn't work that way.

\

IT IS A STATE LAW. START COMPARING APPLES TO APPLES. JESUS.

Gamesmanship? Check your definition of the word. You clearly don't understand it. Grosse Pointes can do what they might do, for reasons that go beyond the "lame-ass country system" that you speak of. About 80 counties in this state would agree that the system you are talking about - and ostensibly defending for no rational reason -the goddam vaccuum that is Wayne County- would actually agree with you, for the exact opposite reasons as your apparent agenda.

This system has supported exactly that which you use as a sword against everything "Republican" or "suburban" that you ignorantly rant about. The laws have been there, they can do what they want. If things are as "stupid" as you characterize them, the Wayne County would literally be gone. Have some personal perspective before discussing schools; know your history or have some fucking clue about the present before ranting about this.

[Goose]

This is somewhat over-generalizing. Within the distinct Pointes there is a fairly large range of economic levels that overlap quite a bit. There are relatively inexpensive single family detached homes in GPW, and equally inexpensive duplexes in GPF. There are large mansions and cheap apartments in nearly all of them.

You could say that, overall, one city might have more expensive houses than the other - but I wouldn't call them extremely different.

Grosse Pointe Shores has NO commercial properties, NO apartments or multi-family condos [[there are some detached condos but they are the same as a standard residential house), and although Im not 100% sure there are NO two family homes.

[bartock]

The Pointes are indeed very different socio-economically from one another.

However, this isn't going to be popular, but uh, you see, there are many people who believe...who may have the impression...that...Macomb County is white trash with money. There is also some truths to stereotypes.

If anything, the Grosse Pointes have more in common with the older affluent Oakland County suburbs except for the Jewish part. Further, Grosse Pointers at least historically, and disproportionately today have been professionals who work downtown. This is emphatically not true for MC.

I really doubt anything will come of this. GP may be poorly represented, but it really is a small population despite its wealth, history, and influence.

I can get with this. At least there is some perspective behind it. But, in recent years, those moving out of the GPs are moving to Macomb County. Whether or not that ultimately results in some or all of the GPs actually deciding to go to Macomb County if they can remains to be seen. But I do not agree at all with the notion [[not from you) that the number one, number two, number three, etc., reason would be to "get over" on Wayne County.

[JBMcB]

After talking to some relatives in the Pointes - consolidation is definitely on the table. There was talk about merging the park systems not to long ago [[believe it or not, probably the most contentious factor in merging.) The libraries and schools are unified. The fire and police departments coordinate with each other. I think they even pool resources for water and street maintenance. There isn't much left separating them other than name.

I could see a single "City of Grosse Pointe" with semi autonomous wards - GPW, GPS, GPP, etc...

[1953]

I live in Grosse Pointe Woods, close to the Shores border. My take, from listening to local news, is that the Shores is a bit dysfunctional and its residents throw out all sorts of wacky ideas all the time, since their city is too small and singularly purposed to make it a real community. Could this go somewhere? Yes. The Shores has many professional residents who can make things happen. Do I think it will? I'd be skeptical.

My question would be what recourse, if any, the county would have. And further, why are we playing county games? Shouldn't there be regionally coordinated government?

1953

[Alley]

not likely...

Why not likely?

I was born and raised in, and recently [[and thankfully) moved back to, Grosse Pointe Park.

[casscorridor]

How about a metropolitan government, while maintaining the individual identities of neighborhoods and towns within the metropolis? Create different levels of decision making based on who is affected. Block issues are decided by the blocks themselves. Neighborhood issues by neighborhoods, and metro-wide issues decided my the whole metro.

We could levy the taxes of 5 million people, and distribute it more equitably. Resources will go to communities that need them. Development could be directed in strategic existing areas where infrastructure is already in place, rather than further and further out into farmland. Existing infrastructure could be enhanced or upgraded, and new infrastructure could be built, including an extensive mass transit system, ultramodern IT networks, upgraded lights, streetscapes and plumbing and the most extensive public park system in the United States.

Abandoned neighborhoods of Detroit could be rebuilt, through a combination of upgraded and new infrastructure, new residential, commercial building, large parks and an immigration program that would attract thousands of new residents to metropolitan Detroit and give them access to land and buildings to start businesses.

Funding seeds could also be given to cooperative enterprises seeking to produce things usually imported or provided by corporations. This way we could begin to break free from reliance on corporations for everything.

Of course this is all a dream world. But dreams can shape reality, if put into practice.

[BrushStart]

\

IT IS A STATE LAW. START COMPARING APPLES TO APPLES. JESUS.

Gamesmanship? Check your definition of the word. You clearly don't understand it. Grosse Pointes can do what they might do, for reasons that go beyond the "lame-ass country system" that you speak of. About 80 counties in this state would agree that the system you are talking about - and ostensibly defending for no rational reason -the goddam vaccuum that is Wayne County- would actually agree with you, for the exact opposite reasons as your apparent agenda.

This system has supported exactly that which you use as a sword against everything "Republican" or "suburban" that you ignorantly rant about. The laws have been there, they can do what they want. If things are as "stupid" as you characterize them, the Wayne County would literally be gone. Have some personal perspective before discussing schools; know your history or have some fucking clue about the present before ranting about this.

You need to reread my post because you obviously didn't comprehend it.

First, I don't care what state law says about this subject. The bottom line is that Grosse Pointe Shores thinks that it will save on taxes and get better political representation if it merges into Macomb County.

The problem with that logic is that Macomb County [[and all the other counties) are the source of the problem. County governments are huge, wasteful government bureaucracies. Government is the problem, not the solution. Southeast Michigan is a massive, conglomerate of municipal government waste, stupid repetition of services, needless make work, etc. etc. Grosse Pointe Shores leaving Wayne County to merge with Macomb County is like dumping one freeloader to start dating another. It makes no sense.

Personally, suburbs can do whatever the hell they want. I have no problem with them other than the fact that their entire existence is the result of massive government subsidies, but that's another discussion. While I can't blame Grosse Pointe Shores for wanting to merge with Macomb County, I can certainly label it gamesmanship, because that's exactly what it is.

I think that if Grosse Pointers want to be in Macomb County, then they should exercise their liberty to move there. So long as we have these superfluous governmental entities called "counties," then the cities located within them shouldn't be allowed to squirm from one to the other whenever it seems to benefit their bottom line.

Americans have the right to move freely wherever they want, but cities do not have any such rights. They are merely entities tied to a geographic area. If you are a person sick of living in Wayne County, then move. If you are a city sick of being under the management of Wayne County, then either fight to get rid of the ridiculous county system, which is is wasting my hard-earned money, or at least be more proactive in reforming it.

[Gistok]

Grosse Pointe Shores has NO commercial properties, NO apartments or multi-family condos [[there are some detached condos but they are the same as a standard residential house), and although Im not 100% sure there are NO two family homes.

Goose, you are correct... GPS has ONLY single family houses.... and only 2 businesses... Grosse Pointe Yacht Club and the Ford House.

DetroitPole, I'm not sure of how many Grosse Pointers work downtown... but I bet A LOT of them work right in the Grosse Pointes, as well as in St. Clair Shores, Roseville and Clinton Township in medical offices [[lots of doctors and dentist offices, especially along Mack, Greater Mack and Little Mack)... not to mention the 4 office buildings [[2 in Detroit, 2 in Grosse Pte. Woods) in the St. John Medical Center. The same is true for lawyers.

[EastsideAl]

How did that come to be? What's the history? Does Grosse Pointe Shores predate the county line? Sincerely.

Grosse Pointe Shores dates from 1911, long after the county line was drawn. It was set up as a village in Grosse Pointe Township to include the mansions along Lakeshore Dr. and the streets immediately behind them.

It's always been my understanding that when the Ford family built their house at Gaukler Point in the late '20s they asked to have the small area around their land included in the Grosse Pointe Shores village, even though it actually sat in Macomb County's Lake Township.

In 1951 the rest of Lake Township was incorporated into the City of St. Clair Shores, which left only the tiny portion with the Ford estate on it that was part of GPS. Lake Township ceased to exist when GPS incorporated as a city in 2009.

[CLAUDE G]

I live in Grosse Pointe Woods, and I would support moving the Macomb county for the following issues...

#1 I advertise in the Yellow pages and to advertise in the Grosse Points you actually need to advertise in the Macomb County Directory. The reason for this was that AT&T research determined that more people in the points used services from Macomb county than wanye county.

#2 36th District court is a zoo to try to do anything with. Many times if possible my lawyer will file in Macomb district court to avoid the hassle.

#3 As a white business professional, a member of my household gets called for jury duty atleast once per year. They got 700,000 people living in Detroit, yet the pick out someone from my family to show up because they know we won't ignore their summons and actually show up.

#4 People who live in my area, do not share the same views as Hanson Clark, or Kwamie Kilpatricks mother. The only reason why we voted for Hanson Clark is to send a message Kwamies mommie to show her how much of a fuck up her son really is and that we hate how he screwed Detroit.

#4 Lower property Taxes that actually get spend in our community rather than projects in Detroit.

#5 A possibility to finally be able to break away from the Harper woods school system completely.

Only disadvantage would be that I would have to give up my classic "313" phone number, but I'll gladly change to 586. Atleast it will be a local call, when I call the rest of my family that lives in Macomb county.

[Gistok]

Claude, you wouldn't have to give up your area code or phone number. There are 2 streets in St. Clair Shores [[North and South Colonial Court, at the north end of Morningside Dr.) that are in the 313 area code. These 2 streets happen to be south of the Milk River, and can only be gotten to from GPW or GPS.

I doubt that AT&T would change any phone numbers if there was a county change for any of the Pointes. Wayne County alread uses the 313 and 734 area codes [[734 is used by other counties)... so having 2 area codes for Macomb County is no biggie...

[Alley]

The GPW park is actually in St. Clair Shores, which is Macomb County

from
http://www.gpwmi.us/departments/parksAndRec.html
"The acreage was acquired in 1948, after residents of Grosse Pointe Woods voted in 1947 to purchase the land adjacent to the Edsel and Eleanor Ford home. The City purchased the land for $60,000 from Eleanor Clay Ford, who was the original owner. The land is in the jurisdiction of St. Clair Shores and, as a result, Grosse Pointe Woods pays taxes to that city in the amount of $100,000 annually. In return, St. Clair Shores provides police, fire and emergency services."