Anyone on the left waking up yet?

[ccbatson]

Absolutely...If you look at my responses to the topic of Republican spending, i have never wavered on this issue.

[Detroitej72]

Unfortunately for real conservatives that doesn't appear likely any time soon.

[ccbatson]

What is a "real" conservative in your mind?

[Detroitej72]

Think more Barry Goldwater, less Bush and other neo-cons.

[ccbatson]

Agreed, but not an answer to the question...it is not an example, but a definition.

[rb336]

let's apply some critical thinking to this:

ccbatson:What is a "real" conservative in your mind?


Detroitej72:Think more Barry Goldwater, less Bush and other neo-cons.

ccbatson:Agreed, but not an answer to the question...it is not an example, but a definition.


Bats, did his comment "Think more Barry Goldwater" convey an impression? If so, then it is, indeed, an answer. You never said "define a real conservative." Frankly, the example conveys a stronger impression than a mere definition would, thus a better answer. You just can't let things go, can you? even when someone says something you agree with, you have to get in some sort of weak jab. pathetic

[elganned]

Bats loves to beg the question, even his own question.

[gibran]

When I think of a model for conservatism and responsibility Ford and Eisenhower comes to mind...when I think of conservative based on control and domination I think of Reagan's neocon buddies; their attempted control of our future and lack of compassion..I do give Bush Senior more credit he seems to have fought that mold ...even while employing some...

I really believe the neocons were the ruin of our last ten years, before and during the Bush admin..they seemed to have pushed agenda's based on fear, foreign commitments and a new world order...they were all over the map: In print Kistol et al and in the state department Perle Wolfowitz etal..and in High visibility Bolton and Kirkpatrick...their vision of the world made us to move away from our countries needs and best interests. They created a extended world agenda and spending spree and used 9/11 as an excuse to crater our relationships abroad and economically. They were everything we should fear ...and the likes of Krauthammer and even Cheney along with the think tanks they sunk back into have consistently attacked our President since, losing control in DC.

[rb336]

Bats loves to beg the question, even his own question.

he hasn't met a rhetorical fallacy he hasn't liked

[ccbatson]

OK, rephrased then. What is your definition of a real conservative?

[rb336]

a real conservative errs on the side of caution, rather than profit, believes in living within ones means [[that does not mean merely via cutting taxes on the wealthy, which is clearly NOT real conservatism, just a late 20th century addition from the bircher fringe).

a political conservative seeks to keep power, both economic and political, to a small group of elites and believe that what benefits those elites is by definition, beneficial to the nation as a whole. Liberals seek to expand the power base as widely as possible and believe that what benefits the most best benefits society best. Both of those have their basis firmly in historic fact and usage

[ccbatson]

Perhaps, but in this case the power targetted for preservation is INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY. The one instance where power greed is highly virtuous.

[vetalalumni]

Revisiting the original thread topic. Any DYes posters now have "buyers remorse".

[Mikeg]

In Saturday's NY Times, there is evidence that Frank Rich is "waking up":

Barack Obama promised a change from this revolving-door, behind-closed-doors collaboration between special interests and government. He vowed to “do our business in the light of day� — with health care negotiations broadcast on C-Span — and to “restore the vital trust between people and their government.� He said, “I intend to tell the corporate lobbyists that their days of setting the agenda in Washington are over.�........

Obama’s promise to make Americans trust the government again was not just another campaign bullet point; it’s the foundation of his brand of governance and essential to his success in office. At the first anniversary of the TARP bailout of the banks, we can see how far he has to go. Americans’ continued suspicion that Washington is in cahoots with powerful interests in joints like Tosca is contributing to their confusion and skepticism about what’s happening out of view in the battle over health care reform.
The public is not wrong. The administration’s legislative deals with the pharmaceutical companies were made in back rooms.

Two weeks ago, Rich was writing about the "violent rage surging in town-hall meetings all summer". Now, it's "The public is not wrong." Just the way he phrased it tells you that it pains him to have to finally admit it.

[ccbatson]

It WILL happen for any libs with half a brain...it is just a matter of time. Deprogramming the less endowed is going to be very difficult however.