Because employment centers are so spread out, it makes it hard to live in the city...

bartock · August-23-11, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Genies is no more, but it has luckily been replaced by fragrant Bangladeshi restaurants ... mmmmm.

I guess it depends. Are you talking about somebody who has several job opportunities and refuses one that's a half-hour drive away? Or somebody who needs a job and can either take this job or stay on assistance? I don't think it's a knock on a place necessarily to say you wouldn't want to live there or work there. I lived in New York and had plenty of people visit who said it was a rush but not for them in the long run.

I think we're just now easing into this idea of employees who can choose among places where they want to work. I imagine it used to be a simple matter of which sub you live in and how long your commute is [[not my lifestyle -- as overheard in GM elevators). But with younger people who appreciate density and urbanity, it makes sense they'd live in Midtown or Corktown or someplace like that. Naturally, wouldn't they want that in their work life as well? I really do value being five miles from work and being able to walk to the store.

I guess I'm saying that if you can understand why somebody would live in exurbia and not mind a 40- or 50-minute commute, why would it conversely be difficult to understand somebody who lived in a dense, urban area and wanted a similarly shorter commute within a smaller radius?

If we're ever going to come together as a region, we need to understand that somebody's taste for a certain lifestyle needn't go hand-in-hand with unreasonable disdain for another? I mean, beside the obvious economic arguments about where subsidies should go in the long run ...

I'm just saying that apples should be compared to apples. You don't have to live in exurbia to have a 40 or 50 minute commute. Harper Woods from downtown would take 35 minutes in rush hour, and it is less than 10 miles from the CBD. A 30 mile drive on the freeway against the flow of traffic is a half hour or even a couple of minutes less. Taking the bus from 8 Mile and Woodard downtown for work is at least a half hour.

I don't begrudge someone's preference to live or work somewhere, but the alleged parameters as stated in the previous posts are much more limiting than suggested.

**Detroitnerd** · August-23-11, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by bartock

I'm just saying that apples should be compared to apples. You don't have to live in exurbia to have a 40 or 50 minute commute.

And yet, this is just anecdotal and based on my experience, people who value density also seem to value a tighter orbit and less time spent driving, whereas people who live in the exurbs [[at the other extreme) don't seem to mind ranging all over the metro as much. I think, again, of my sister, who drives probably 10 times as much as I do, and likely acclimated to it by living in the exurbs and being a chauffeur to her daughter. Don't you think a certain process of acclimation to environment, or a predisposition to an environment, play some role in how people view long commutes?

**Islandman** · August-23-11, 03:32 PM

Sometimes it's not the miles either; try getting from Rochester to Southfield during rush hour. A 20-30 minute drive [[usually) can go up to an hour or more.

bartock · August-23-11, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

And yet, this is just anecdotal and based on my experience, people who value density also seem to value a tighter orbit and less time spent driving, whereas people who live in the exurbs [[at the other extreme) don't seem to mind ranging all over the metro as much. I think, again, of my sister, who drives probably 10 times as much as I do, and likely acclimated to it by living in the exurbs and being a chauffeur to her daughter. Don't you think a certain process of acclimation to environment, or a predisposition to an environment, play some role in how people view long commutes?

Yeah, but I'm just saying [[as Islandman just did, better than I did) that distance does not always equate to time. As far acclimation to long commutes, from personal experience the conversation I have with myself goes a little like this "Aw, fuck this is a shitty drive. Why am I doing this? Aw, fuck that's right, the wife and kids. But aw fuck this is a shitty drive."

**Detroitnerd** · August-23-11, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by Islandman

Sometimes it's not the miles either; try getting from Rochester to Southfield during rush hour. A 20-30 minute drive [[usually) can go up to an hour or more.

That's true. I've had friends turn pale just talking about the 12-mile journey from Oxford to Lapeer!

**Detroitnerd** · August-23-11, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by bartock

Yeah, but I'm just saying [[as Islandman just did, better than I did) that distance does not always equate to time. As far acclimation to long commutes, from personal experience the conversation I have with myself goes a little like this "Aw, fuck this is a shitty drive. Why am I doing this? Aw, fuck that's right, the wife and kids. But aw fuck this is a shitty drive."

Perhaps Detroit is an exceptional place, since it has so much traffic redundancy [[freeways, trunk roads, little-known shortcuts) that I hardly ever have to get bumper-to-bumper with anybody. Well, let me just say something very simple then: I am grateful to be only five miles away from downtown, and my disinclination to drive goes hand-in-hand with my actions and choices. The only reason I swear is that, for some reason, motorists seem determined to get in my way and not let me drive 100 mph.

**R8RBOB** · August-23-11, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by bartock

Since when are Wixom and Shelby Township the middle of nowhere?

Wow, didn't think I would have to defend my "middle of nowhere" comment but here goes. The "middle of nowhere" is an expression that I would use to describe an area in which I do not frequently visit. Wixom is actually not that far from me and I would not have a problem driving to Wixom and as for Shelby Township it is a good 45 minute drive but as I was attempting to point out that driving or catching a bus to the "middle of nowhere" can be hell and don't let it get cold. And yes, SMART does go out to ST but up to 23 Mile Rd Don't have a J.O.B. in Washington Township. Wixom!!! you're hiking from Farmington Hills just to get there.

ferntruth · August-24-11, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

Wow, didn't think I would have to defend my "middle of nowhere" comment but here goes. The "middle of nowhere" is an expression that I would use to describe an area in which I do not frequently visit. Wixom is actually not that far from me and I would not have a problem driving to Wixom and as for Shelby Township it is a good 45 minute drive but as I was attempting to point out that driving or catching a bus to the "middle of nowhere" can be hell and don't let it get cold. And yes, SMART does go out to ST but up to 23 Mile Rd Don't have a J.O.B. in Washington Township. Wixom!!! you're hiking from Farmington Hills just to get there.

Using your criteria, most of Detroit is in the "middle of nowhere" since I do not frequently visit most areas of the city.

**R8RBOB** · August-24-11, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by ferntruth

Using your criteria, most of Detroit is in the "middle of nowhere" since I do not frequently visit most areas of the city.

Well we are in agreement because for the record, Detroit is a big fuckin' city. For example, I live on the northwest side but rarely do I ever visit the eastside. Never needed too. That said, if you were to kidnap me, blindfold me and and dumped me on the corner of Essex and Chalmers, I would be in the "middle of nowhere." Stop trying to over-analyze my play of words.

**iheartthed** · August-24-11, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

Well we are in agreement because for the record, Detroit is a big fuckin' city. For example, I live on the northwest side but rarely do I ever visit the eastside. Never needed too. That said, if you were to kidnap me, blindfold me and and dumped me on the corner of Essex and Chalmers, I would be in the "middle of nowhere." Stop trying to over-analyze my play of words.

I get that he's just trying to be a dick, but I don't think what you said here really defines "the middle of nowhere" properly. I have never been to Seattle, but I wouldn't say that the city is the "middle of nowhere". So I don't think we need to beat around the bush here... the fringe and points beyond are what we define as "the middle of nowhere". No need to spare the feelings of those who choose to live in the "middle of nowhere".

**R8RBOB** · August-24-11, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I get that he's just trying to be a dick, but I don't think what you said here really defines "the middle of nowhere" properly. I have never been to Seattle, but I wouldn't say that the city is the "middle of nowhere". So I don't think we need to beat around the bush here... the fringe and points beyond are what we define as "the middle of nowhere". No need to spare the feelings of those who choose to live in the "middle of nowhere".

As I stated before, my use of words pertains to my point of view in regards to areas that are unknown to me. I was not attempt to classify any area as the "middle of nowhere." I too have not been to Seattle but I would say it is in the middle of nowhere to me because I have no desire to go to Seattle just like people have no desire to visit Detroit.

**bailey** · August-24-11, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

As I stated before, my use of words pertains to my point of view in regards to areas that are unknown to me. I was not attempt to classify any area as the "middle of nowhere." I too have not been to Seattle but I would say it is in the middle of nowhere to me because I have no desire to go to Seattle just like people have no desire to visit Detroit.

Well, if you're going to insist on using the phrase "middle of nowhere" like no one else who could read a map would....don't get all offended when people get snarky with you about it.

bartock · August-24-11, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I get that he's just trying to be a dick, but I don't think what you said here really defines "the middle of nowhere" properly. I have never been to Seattle, but I wouldn't say that the city is the "middle of nowhere". So I don't think we need to beat around the bush here... the fringe and points beyond are what we define as "the middle of nowhere". No need to spare the feelings of those who choose to live in the "middle of nowhere".

Even the person you were attempting to defend disagrees with your assumptions.

**R8RBOB** · August-24-11, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

Well, if you're going to insist on using the phrase "middle of nowhere" like no one else who could read a map would....don't get all offended when people get snarky with you about it.

Listen, I don't care how people think about. All I said was don't try to over-analyze it. It is just a play of words. Nothing more.

**iheartthed** · August-24-11, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by bartock

Even the person you were attempting to defend disagrees with your assumptions.

Trying to defend? Reading comprehend much? I was actually disagreeing with him.

**R8RBOB** · August-24-11, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by bartock

Even the person you were attempting to defend disagrees with your assumptions.

I'm a big boy bartock. I don't need anyone on DetroitYes to defend my point of view. I addressed the issue of my words and now I'm done. There is no need to put more into it.

bartock · August-24-11, 11:47 AM

iheart, said: "So I don't think we need to beat around the bush here... the fringe and points beyond are what we define as "the middle of nowhere". No need to spare the feelings of those who choose to live in the "middle of nowhere".

Believe me, I am not trying to defend you R8RBOB. I guess if I knew your unique definition and play on words, I wouldn't have disagreed with your original comment.

Perhaps for iheart's sake I should have said that I fail to see where the "we" business in her statement came from. Rather than using the term "disagreeing", Iheart, I would say that you were injecting your own definition and impression of things into a "we" statement.

But what do I know, I apparently forgot that most basic lesson of reading comprehension that says that pronouns are interchangeable.

**iheartthed** · August-24-11, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by bartock

iheart, said: "So I don't think we need to beat around the bush here... the fringe and points beyond are what we define as "the middle of nowhere". No need to spare the feelings of those who choose to live in the "middle of nowhere".

Believe me, I am not trying to defend you R8RBOB. I guess if I knew your unique definition and play on words, I wouldn't have disagreed with your original comment.

Perhaps for iheart's sake I should have said that I fail to see where the "we" business in her statement came from. Rather than using the term "disagreeing", Iheart, I would say that you were injecting your own definition and impression of things into a "we" statement.

But what do I know, I apparently forgot that most basic lesson of reading comprehension that says that pronouns are interchangeable.

Boy, you sure do get butt hurt pretty quickly. You shouldn't play with the big boys if your feelings are so fragile.

bartock · August-24-11, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Boy, you sure do get butt hurt pretty quickly. You shouldn't play with the big boys if your feelings are so fragile.

Awwww, iheart, you are OK in my book.

I spit out my water reading "you sure do get butt hurt pretty quickly." Seriously fantastic and funny.

**R8RBOB** · August-24-11, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by bartock

iheart, said: "So I don't think we need to beat around the bush here... the fringe and points beyond are what we define as "the middle of nowhere". No need to spare the feelings of those who choose to live in the "middle of nowhere".

Believe me, I am not trying to defend you R8RBOB. I guess if I knew your unique definition and play on words, I wouldn't have disagreed with your original comment.

Perhaps for iheart's sake I should have said that I fail to see where the "we" business in her statement came from. Rather than using the term "disagreeing", Iheart, I would say that you were injecting your own definition and impression of things into a "we" statement.

But what do I know, I apparently forgot that most basic lesson of reading comprehension that says that pronouns are interchangeable.

bartock, I suppose I need to check myself. I guess that I can't use puzzling phrases on DYes. This is the second time this summer that someone had a "?" over their head after I used a common phrase that I would use from time to time. [[The first time, I had someone question my use of words was when I said; "catching hell.") I didn't mean to confuse anyone but when you get as old as me you assume that people know what you are talking about.

bartock · August-24-11, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

bartock, I suppose I need to check myself. I guess that I can't use puzzling phrases on DYes. This is the second time this summer that someone had a "?" over their head after I used a common phrase that I would use from time to time. [[The first time, I had someone question my use of words was when I said; "catching hell.") I didn't mean to confuse anyone but when you get as old as me you assume that people know what you are talking about.

No worries. And sorry, it was my fault you caught a lot of hell for it.