Horrible Violence in Detroit Today

[Detroitnerd]

Gun control: Because taking away citizens' guns is always the answer. Pay no attention to the millions of kids who get a .22 at 16 and never kill anybody.

[guito13]

Gun control: Because taking away citizens' guns is always the answer. Pay no attention to the millions of kids who get a .22 at 16 and never kill anybody.

Gun control: 2" to 3" groups at 15 yards.

[Gannon]

Gun control: 2" to 3" groups at 15 yards.

Kinda like this? It was only at 10 yards, but in groups of 2-body/1-head triple-tap volleys from relaxed rest [[because they won't let you draw during regular hours)...as fast as I could empty the magazine of my Glock 19.




That's a 3.5 inch group down below the neck, 2.5 inch in the noggin.

That was the day two fellows from the opposite end of the range came down to see 'who I trained with' and 'where I'd served'...and really wanted to know who I was, even though one fellow couldn't tell me what organization he worked for, LOL! That was a weird day at Target Sports...


...turns out those fellows saved me. Manager thought that rapid fire was them...he told me if he knew it was me, he'd have kicked me out! Yay, feds.

[Gannon]

What brought it down in New York, which had well over 2,000 murders a year, close to Detroit levels? People differ about that, but few would argue that the combination of close community policing and a crackdown on "threshold" crimes, such as the notorious squeegee men, didn't have a lot to do with it. It could be done here; they just need the will. Start busting the gang bangers for breaking bottles on the ground, and they will commit the serious crimes less often.

I'm a huge proponent for the Broken Windows theory...I think that is what it's called...put thugs captured and convicted to work in crews cleaning out the broken glass in all our abandoned buildings, and get it into a recycle loop to produce flat glass for low-income citizen purchase. Double time if they are caught busting car windows and stealing GPS units.

Chees!

[Gannon]

Outdoor CCW training north of Brighton was even MORE fun...I brought a box of tracers for the final multiple-target acquisition range, they called me Rambo. LOL...it was ONLY every third bullet for a couple of magazines. Sometimes it is good to see 'em fly!


Cheers

[guito13]

Kinda like this? It was only at 10 yards, but in groups of 2-body/1-head triple-tap volleys from relaxed rest [[because they won't let you draw during regular hours)...as fast as I could empty the magazine of my Glock 19.




That's a 3.5 inch group down below the neck, 2.5 inch in the noggin.

That was the day two fellows from the opposite end of the range came down to see 'who I trained with' and 'where I'd served'...and really wanted to know who I was, even though one fellow couldn't tell me what organization he worked for, LOL! That was a weird day at Target Sports...


...turns out those fellows saved me. Manager thought that rapid fire was them...he told me if he knew it was me, he'd have kicked me out! Yay, feds.

Not too shabby...I am getting pretty close with my glock 26 [[a bit more compact for my frame) :-)

[DetroitPole]

People aren't running around with guns in Canada or the Netherlands [[as Whitehorse pointed out), and both have extremely low rates of shooting deaths.

Godbee needs to go. Of course there is more to this problem but he is completely ineffective. He is like a repeat of Bully-Cummings - an old insider careerist. Say what you will about him but crime was down under Warren Evans, but he took some limelight away from the egotistical millionare so I guess that is reason enough to sack him and let crime go through the roof again.

[ejames01]

What exactly does anyone expect Bing or Godbee to do? If folks want to shoot each other, they are going to do it. Unless we can hire Chief John Anderton and the "Pre-Cogs", there is no way to predict these shootings.

[Gannon]

Not too shabby...I am getting pretty close with my glock 26 [[a bit more compact for my frame) :-)

Impressive for not having any pinkie-grip, unless you use that +2 magazine.

Mine is the original-style grip, I didn't get anywhere near this until I added the rubber gripwrap with the finger-notches. I was told ol' Mr. Glock was incensed anyone would try to improve on his design, then the next version has little knobbie finger notches...the rubber one still is way better, imho, except for a little clothing collection if I were to ever wear it concealed.

You've got to really practise that 2/3rd-pull trigger depression, and then you've got incredible accuracy with the repeat shots. Seasoned shooters are un-nerved by that trigger...I never had any problem with it. Scared me the first time I opened it up in the desert when I lived in LA...I could hit a 4-inch target with almost all of the fifteen at FIFTY feet, almost twenty yards at full rapid fire.

I've shot full 17s with the ported barrels and all the balance and stand-up sights for competition...what a joke. Gimme my 19 any day.

I hope I never, ever have to use it...but at least I know how. What is the FBI rule for gunfights again? 3 shots in 3 seconds within 10 feet...or is it yards? That is their training target window.


Cheers!

[Gannon]

What exactly does anyone expect Bing or Godbee to do? If folks want to shoot each other, they are going to do it. Unless we can hire Chief John Anderton and the "Pre-Cogs", there is no way to predict these shootings.

That was the opinion of one of Craig Fahle's guests today...crimes of passion, in most cases. He was great...said some went out looking for trouble, sounded like for sport...just somethin' to do.

I loved his take on putting the neighbor back into the 'hood.

I daresay it isn't passion, in most cases...but whatever the antonym of compassion is...quick search yields a few choices, I'd say indifference is the best one. Shantaram said the opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference...so we may know the antidote now.

Cheers

[Gannon]

People aren't running around with guns in Canada or the Netherlands [[as Whitehorse pointed out), and both have extremely low rates of shooting deaths.

I think Sweden used to be able to boast the same, until recently.

[coracle]

"People aren't running around with guns in Canada or the Netherlands [[as Whitehorse pointed out), and both have extremely low rates of shooting deaths."

I would have expected this to be the case DetroitPole. If we make a similar comparison for the Metro area only there has to be far more guns owned in the suburbs by the much bigger population than the City and yet far less shooting deaths which would indicate it's not dependent on the number of guns but the people that own them.

[Detroitnerd]

Or what kinds of people our society produces...

[Patrick]

English said:

Murder is definitely not normal, but neither are kids growing up in the
ways that so many children in Detroit do. I was a decent kid with great
parents

The problem is Detroit is a city without fathers...or, at least, very few fathers.

[coracle]

English said:

The problem is Detroit is a city without fathers...or, at least, very few fathers.

Well who produced the kids then?

[313WX]

Well who produced the kids then?

He said FATHERS, men in the household who take their responsibility as a parent to raise/support the child and teach them right from wrong, not boys who dump the kids on their grandma or their baby's momma.

[coracle]

He said FATHERS, men in the household who take their responsibility as a parent to raise/support the child and teach them right from wrong, not boys who dump the kids on their grandma or their baby's momma.

Sorry, I thought his "father" meant the one that begets a child. I didn't realize he meant FATHERS that bring them up to be what they become socially. Nevertheless it sounds like we don't have a sufficient quantity of FATHERS [[or too many!) but an over supply of fathers. Or could it be that we have too many eager mothers?

[English]

He said FATHERS, men in the household who take their responsibility as a parent to raise/support the child and teach them right from wrong, not boys who dump the kids on their grandma or their baby's momma.

This is a hot button issue that is being discussed ad nauseam in the African American community nationwide. From what I understand, the objection of the absentee fathers is either 1) somehow they were trapped by the mother who got pregnant on purpose [[when they were just looking for a good time), or 2) they resent the intrusion of the courts re: child support and visitation because they believe they are doing what they can for their children and/or the woman is trying to get into their pocketbooks for self, not the kids. I don't get it.

Neither do I understand the perspective of mothers who refuse to mother, then excuse criminal behavior. I try to understand it from the perspective of emotional and mental illness, feeling disempowered and overwhelmed, and having a skewed perspective of the world and one's place in it. Still, it makes little sense.

Many childhoods have suffered because of this selfish mentality on both sides. But what can be done? You cannot force men to stay in a monogamous and stable relationship with a woman. You cannot force women to make wise reproductive choices. You cannot force parents to nurture, guide, or discipline their children.

The crux of the matter is that you can't force people to do anything they don't want to do. Prison is not a deterrent. The death penalty won't be, either. And shame? People have been shaking their finger at criminals forever... do we really think they care?

All of the solutions are either too expensive [[e.g., far more resources) or unpalatable [[rounding up the poor underclass, confiscating their children, rearing them in institutional settings). So until we decide to invest the funds or tear up our Founding Documents, or a miracle happens, we are at an impasse.

[Patrick]

How bout buying one way tickets to Texas for these perps and losers? The southern states would send people up to MI back when it was a wealthy state...

[szla]

What would happen if after 9-1-11 there was no payment to a mother who bears a child. How long would it take the girls mother to take control over the girl because this baby would not come with a check only a burden on the grandmother. Would havoc be wreaked on the guy who is the father. The vast majority on this board seem to think nothing can be done or it's inevitable. In the late nineties didn't Wisconsin and New Jersey basically stop payments for any more kids and had a drop in second births in the neighborhood of 25-30 percent? I am as concerned as anybody on this board about the violence in the city. I was brought up in a fatherless situation. My mother was my father and my grandmother was my mother. My father died when I was three. i am no fan of fatherless child rearing and believe the full strength of the law should be used to force the father or help the father reclaim his role. However I believe economics or cash or no cash could be used to force a better social policy. Fatherlessness, little girls having babies coupled with an underclass mentality produce a culture that seems to produce walking crime machines. Earlier I brought up paying woman to not have kids. Eugenics was the charge. The little girl who was burned Mariah had a mother who I think was 23 and had four kids. We should be financing her to have more kids. yeah. Cash to not have anymore. You dont a job with prospects we should finance you to have a kid so you can permanentize this. No cash. There let the shit fall on my head.

[rjk]

The high illigitimacy rate is why I have very little hope for Detroit as a whole.

It's too bad more people didn't pay attention to Patrick Moynihan back in the mid 60's.

[English]

What would happen if after 9-1-11 there was no payment to a mother who bears a child. How long would it take the girls mother to take control over the girl because this baby would not come with a check only a burden on the grandmother. Would havoc be wreaked on the guy who is the father. The vast majority on this board seem to think nothing can be done or it's inevitable. In the late nineties didn't Wisconsin and New Jersey basically stop payments for any more kids and had a drop in second births in the neighborhood of 25-30 percent? I am as concerned as anybody on this board about the violence in the city. I was brought up in a fatherless situation. My mother was my father and my grandmother was my mother. My father died when I was three. i am no fan of fatherless child rearing and believe the full strength of the law should be used to force the father or help the father reclaim his role. However I believe economics or cash or no cash could be used to force a better social policy. Fatherlessness, little girls having babies coupled with an underclass mentality produce a culture that seems to produce walking crime machines. Earlier I brought up paying woman to not have kids. Eugenics was the charge. The little girl who was burned Mariah had a mother who I think was 23 and had four kids. We should be financing her to have more kids. yeah. Cash to not have anymore. You dont a job with prospects we should finance you to have a kid so you can permanentize this. No cash. There let the shit fall on my head.

No one is going to rain down on you. It is a frustrating conundrum, really, and the world's finest minds haven't got a clue.

But ultimately, I don't think it'll work to pay people not to have kids. People are going to have sex, and if they're healthy and fertile, conception will result.

If they really want to get the funds, the abortion rate would go up. No one, not even those who are pro-choice, think that's the best solution.

The only solutions to change people's behavior externally are carrots [[more incentives, social programs) or sticks [[requiring welfare recipients to use BC, more aggressive removal of children from dysfunctional homes). We don't have the cash for the former, and we aren't cold enough to do the latter.

Besides, if working class or poor black single mothers were not allowed to procreate, a lot of very productive people I know wouldn't be here... including myself. My mom and dad were not married when I was born. They married when I was 2. It's a good thing that the state didn't choose to prevent me from being conceived, in my opinion... I kinda like being alive, you know.

[softailrider]

People aren't running around with guns in Canada or the Netherlands [[as Whitehorse pointed out), and both have extremely low rates of shooting deaths.

Godbee needs to go. Of course there is more to this problem but he is completely ineffective. He is like a repeat of Bully-Cummings - an old insider careerist. Say what you will about him but crime was down under Warren Evans, but he took some limelight away from the egotistical millionare so I guess that is reason enough to sack him and let crime go through the roof again.

Warren Evans was like a moth - every time a television light came on there he was, every chance he could get.

[Zacha341]

Nice gun control 'indeed'... LOL!

Kinda like this? It was only at 10 yards, but in groups of 2-body/1-head triple-tap volleys from relaxed rest [[because they won't let you draw during regular hours)...as fast as I could empty the magazine of my Glock 19.




That's a 3.5 inch group down below the neck, 2.5 inch in the noggin.

That was the day two fellows from the opposite end of the range came down to see 'who I trained with' and 'where I'd served'...and really wanted to know who I was, even though one fellow couldn't tell me what organization he worked for, LOL! That was a weird day at Target Sports...


...turns out those fellows saved me. Manager thought that rapid fire was them...he told me if he knew it was me, he'd have kicked me out! Yay, feds.

[canuck]

While listening to BBC London radio during the riots last week I came across this item when they mentioned it on a program;

http://4freedoms.ning.com/group/EDL/...18Comment68331

Looking for it again, I found this bit;

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...n-engaged.html

Noke omment!