Horrible Violence in Detroit Today

**Gannon** · August-14-11, 02:36 PM

Wow, your comments about investigators worrying about their wardrobes rings true...I got a powerful visual flashback to the night ol' Magoo was gunned down by that State Cop out to impress/overprotect his female partner.

When the Detroit Dicks showed up, they seemed straight from Central Casting...totally f'in' SuperFly. It was so totally ridiculous, it is easy to see why the State boys who surrounded the crime scene wouldn't let them near it.

The problems in this city are so thick, deep, and entrenched...it is a wonder if anyone can ever undo this Gordian Knot. Who will be our Alexander the Great?

It certainly isn't Mayor Bong.

ugh

**coracle** · August-14-11, 04:01 PM

English asked;

"How do you change the mentality of the murderers? Unless you can answer that question, continued analysis of the problem is not a solution. We've beat this horse skeleton to death. So what do we do?"

And I agree with his analysis and I don't have a quick fix soution; it has to come from education and good family upbringing, so it'll take time. But I would immediately re-instate Capital Punishment - not as a deterent but as a punishment. Then I would make sure it was carried out within one week after sentencing [[not a lifetime after; if at all). This would ensure against repeat offenses. I would phase out all benefits to one parent families. I would provide city laboring jobs for all able bodied males that couldn't get a real job of at least 40 hours per week and their benefits would depend on their work hours. If there were able bodied males not working or on working benefits I would have them investigated to establish how they supported themselves. I realize this is draconian but the object is to save 4000 lives in 10 years - and one of those lives might be yours. The problem is we are scared to make the tough choices.

**canuck** · August-14-11, 04:10 PM

Gannon. When the Detroit Dicks showed up, they seemed straight from Central Casting...totally f'in' SuperFly.

As an aside; maybe that is where the HUM comes from...lol

English- You are right about a move toward empathy in civilization of course. The lack of empathy may be the single biggest impediment in a metropolitan renaissance of sorts in Detroit. There has to almost be something in it for everybody in order for folks to pay attention to what ails the region. And some will answer predictably; What about the region? The only problems affecting it are those that come from Detroit proper. The outlying suburbs are beginning to experience some of the hardships and yet some would rather put it down to badasses from inner city. So I think that while empathy can go a long way, there is a better chance of getting things done when the problems of a majority inner city black population start affecting the suburbs in crime, economy, etc... This has to do with the historical divide that curses black white relations in Detroit. How can you separate the dynamics of division and abandonment from the need for harmony when historically, the search for approval and validation in the black community have only been won from within.

So you may entertain the idea that Detroit sinks deeper into Hollywood caricature of itself with blaxploitation characters leading the city's politics, schools and police; or you can start making phone calls and DEMAND attention to the REGION's problems. Make politicians empathize the way they usually do, by compromise and deceit, but with a little luck, they may build regional transit and restructure school administration and whatnot. I think it is better to get involved politically and raise your voice when it is proper to do so than expect a miracle.

**canuck** · August-14-11, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by coracle

English asked;

"How do you change the mentality of the murderers? Unless you can answer that question, continued analysis of the problem is not a solution. We've beat this horse skeleton to death. So what do we do?"

And I agree with his analysis. but the first thing I would do is re-instate Capital Punishment - not as a deterrant but as a punishment.

I empathize with you coracle. I know you are shaken by this series of murders but wouldnt you rather find a better solution in deterring crime from happening by getting involved in your community. Why is everything to be met with punishment? Sounds like a silly question but I wonder about states which put so many young people in crime universities, and have the death penalty and cant build enough prisons to stop the crime.

**adamjab19** · August-14-11, 04:35 PM

State mandated chastity belts and education for those idiots doing crime!

**Hypestyles** · August-14-11, 04:47 PM

http://www.detnews.com/article/20110...$3.5M-in-drugs

what happens to guns siezed by police, after trial? are they destroyed/melted down? are the drugs destroyed? What happens to the cash? the jewelry & knick-knacks?

**401don** · August-14-11, 05:25 PM

Movies like A Bronx Tale and Goodfellas are on tv every weekend but there's a lot of truth to the message. Either take shortcuts to get stuff or you're a schmuck. It used to be acceptable to be poor. If you had a job even better. At least if you were honest it was better than being a criminal. It didn't mean you couldn't aspire to be better. Now every message you get from friends, media, etc. is if you don't have cash, cars, bling, etc., no matter how you get them, you're a total loser.

lilpup · August-14-11, 05:56 PM

And that's the problem with almost all of U.S. society nowadays - gimme, gimme, gimme, f-you I got mine - be it corporate execs or school teachers. And, of course, everybody has earned everything they are demanding and have got so far and if someone else is getting a little more then f 'em, they don't deserve it.

Way back when Peter Drucker taught that such wide gaps create instability. His recommendation was to have a spread but keep it relatively small - the highest paid person in a company shouldn't get more than about 40 times what the lowest paid employee gets. A $10k janitor would mean a $400k top exec. That way there's enough to go around AND the exec has incentive to care of everyone on staff.

**Goose** · August-14-11, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by lilpup

Way back when Peter Drucker taught that such wide gaps create instability. His recommendation was to have a spread but keep it relatively small - the highest paid person in a company shouldn't get more than about 40 times what the lowest paid employee gets. A $10k janitor would mean a $400k top exec. That way there's enough to go around AND the exec has incentive to care of everyone on staff.

thats great if the company wants to institute pay in this scale, but are you actually advocating laws and government enforcement of such action?

**szla** · August-14-11, 08:04 PM

Running the risk of incurring a lot of wrath - how about planning our way out. Freakanomics had an interesting reason for the drop of crime in the 90s. But what about paying people to get sterilized. $5000 would save a lot of money and not have crack addicted kids, put more money and food in the kids mouths that there etc and so on.

**gazhekwe** · August-14-11, 08:17 PM

Yikes! Eugenics has been tried as recently as the 70s and 80s in our very state. It doesn't work.

**stasu1213** · August-14-11, 08:28 PM

I hope that the low level humming that some people on this site hears is not contibuting to some of the violence

**Jimaz** · August-14-11, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by Goose

thats great if the company wants to institute pay in this scale, but are you actually advocating laws and government enforcement of such action?

Flagged as corporatist bait.

**401don** · August-14-11, 09:01 PM

Still no arrests in any of the shootings. They've got about 8 hours until their 48 is up on all of them.

**English** · August-14-11, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by gazhekwe

Yikes! Eugenics has been tried as recently as the 70s and 80s in our very state. It doesn't work.

No, it doesn't. I worry, though, that if economic times get too hard, if we won't see some scapegoating of the poor and/or people of color. We're maybe only a decade or two away from rounding up people who we think are irreparably anti-social.

**Gannon** · August-14-11, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

I hope that the low level humming that some people on this site hears is not contibuting to some of the violence

If it were, violence woud be much more common, I'm pretty sure.

Cheers

**Detroitej72** · August-14-11, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by English

We're maybe only a decade or two away from rounding up people who we think are irreparably anti-social.

Maybe sooner if the tea-baggers have their way.

**Thomcat52** · August-14-11, 10:35 PM

The perps are getting younger. As the lady in the interview said "trickle down violence". I miss those lazy hot Detroit summers.

**Gannon** · August-15-11, 02:41 AM

Originally Posted by Detroitej72

Maybe sooner if the tea-baggers have their way.

The tea-baggers are merely the latest group to be duped by the REAL problem-makers into an active position and posture of division, and you are playing into the divide-and-conquer game by thinking they are your enemy.

The real enemy are the ones who perpetuate this diametric-dance...the little princes who will do whatever it takes to remain in power. The ones who FOMENT this radical divide between us all, in order to keep us stirred up and at each other's throats, if we can even GET that close to grasp.

English is getting close to her personal illumination and freedom from this silliness...which she fully understands has been groomed into her from her youth onwards. Her friend who actively sought to maintain her hatred is actually one of the worst examples of someone stuck in extreme emotion, and painting themself and everyone like them who will listen to their illogic into a horrible and inaccessible corner. He probably thinks his freedom and success only come at the white man's expense and demise.

THAT is plantation thinking, something I thought we were well past...145 years since Lincoln supposedly freed the slaves...and abolished that horrible institution.

I know I step on a landmine with that comment, but I will suffer what may come in love for all who misunderstand and consider it an attack. It is not. I say these things to WELCOME any who may learn to choose unity over division, strength in numbers of not ONLY those who look like them...but in all who seek the same solution to this vexing curse.

The sirens on the east side were crazy again tonight. Been that way for the entire weekend...and I also believe they are exacerbated by the Full Moon. It is not to 'blame', it merely turns up the volume of human emotion...once every 28 days, plus and minus 2 to 3, since it is a cycle. All of life is made up of such cycles.

I merely hope we survive to see the next go-'round.

Sincerely,
John

**Gannon** · August-15-11, 09:43 AM

Curious story out of the Freep this morning...

http://www.freep.com/article/2011081...text|FRONTPAGE

**SWMAP** · August-15-11, 09:48 AM

yes. Who in Detroit is keeping thousands of dollars in the house? Who has thousands of dollars?

**Gannon** · August-15-11, 09:53 AM

Well, I know a few folks who, for generations, have not trusted the banks...or the government.

Compound interest on savings has been gone for over a decade...

**English** · August-15-11, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by Gannon

The tea-baggers are merely the latest group to be duped by the REAL problem-makers into an active position and posture of division, and you are playing into the divide-and-conquer game by thinking they are your enemy.

The real enemy are the ones who perpetuate this diametric-dance...the little princes who will do whatever it takes to remain in power. The ones who FOMENT this radical divide between us all, in order to keep us stirred up and at each other's throats, if we can even GET that close to grasp.

English is getting close to her personal illumination and freedom from this silliness...which she fully understands has been groomed into her from her youth onwards. Her friend who actively sought to maintain her hatred is actually one of the worst examples of someone stuck in extreme emotion, and painting themself and everyone like them who will listen to their illogic into a horrible and inaccessible corner. He probably thinks his freedom and success only come at the white man's expense and demise.

THAT is plantation thinking, something I thought we were well past...145 years since Lincoln supposedly freed the slaves...and abolished that horrible institution.

I know I step on a landmine with that comment, but I will suffer what may come in love for all who misunderstand and consider it an attack. It is not. I say these things to WELCOME any who may learn to choose unity over division, strength in numbers of not ONLY those who look like them...but in all who seek the same solution to this vexing curse.

The sirens on the east side were crazy again tonight. Been that way for the entire weekend...and I also believe they are exacerbated by the Full Moon. It is not to 'blame', it merely turns up the volume of human emotion...once every 28 days, plus and minus 2 to 3, since it is a cycle. All of life is made up of such cycles.

I merely hope we survive to see the next go-'round.

Sincerely,
John

It's not an attack, Gannon. You are telling the truth. The idea that all white people are involved in an organized, vast conspiracy to oppress all people of color worldwide is as false as the idea that all black people are irredeemably criminal, unintelligent and/or undesirable as neighbors, spouses, parents, and co-workers. Both are completely untrue. Most people are just trying to live their lives.

The old adage "hurt people hurt people" applies here. So does "an eye for an eye leaves the entire world blind."

And so do the words of Donny Hathaway, "Take it from me, someday we'll all be free." One of my favorite songs. I've always said on this board that someday things will get better. I don't know that I'll ever be able to completely shake off growing up in CAY's Detroit, learning and believing black nationalist and Afrocentrist principles... just as I know there are some white folks out there who because of their upbringing and experiences, will never feel comfortable living next door to, marrying, or working with people who look like me. But good people from all walks of life do try, because we see the humanity in everyone. More of our children's generation will not have this issue, and their children's will be even better. Eventually it will not matter at all.

Is it true that there are more African Americans involved with the criminal justice system than other groups in the US? Sure. However, we're at or near the bottom of just about every other quality of life indicator, including poverty. It doesn't mean that black people are all the same. It doesn't mean that we're not human.

**Danny** · August-15-11, 10:59 AM

BROTHERS KILLING BROTHERS in the ghettoes of Detroit is like a urban plague with no hope from outsiders. This is what happen when there is no father figure to look after the kids. This is what happens when Black women want to play house and making babies. This violence MUST stop before the African American race is heading to extinction.

**iheartthed** · August-15-11, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by texorama

What brought it down in New York, which had well over 2,000 murders a year, close to Detroit levels? People differ about that, but few would argue that the combination of close community policing and a crackdown on "threshold" crimes, such as the notorious squeegee men, didn't have a lot to do with it. It could be done here; they just need the will. Start busting the gang bangers for breaking bottles on the ground, and they will commit the serious crimes less often.

New York is extremely heavy handed with gun-control. NYC also routinely sues states with more lax gun control laws [[Virginia bearing the brunt of it) when guns obtained in those states are traced to crimes committed in New York.