Horrible Violence in Detroit Today

**Cincinnati_Kid** · August-13-11, 09:21 PM

"No Jobs, No Hope" That's not an excuse, but still....... And the jobs that are available nobody can support a family on.

**texorama** · August-13-11, 09:52 PM

What brought it down in New York, which had well over 2,000 murders a year, close to Detroit levels? People differ about that, but few would argue that the combination of close community policing and a crackdown on "threshold" crimes, such as the notorious squeegee men, didn't have a lot to do with it. It could be done here; they just need the will. Start busting the gang bangers for breaking bottles on the ground, and they will commit the serious crimes less often.

**Mind field** · August-13-11, 09:59 PM

I agree texorama. There has to be a paradigm shift in the DPD with a zero tolerance for all crimes and a court and justice system that shows no mercy or lenience.

lilpup · August-13-11, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by Patrick

Just how much does having a depression-level economy figure into these types of crime statistics? Is it the main culprit?

don't know about currently - that won't be obvious until down the road - but historically economic downturns yield lower crime rates.

**cycledetroit** · August-13-11, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by Mind field

I agree texorama. There has to be a paradigm shift in the DPD with a zero tolerance for all crimes and a court and justice system that shows no mercy or lenience.

YES! This is exactly what is needed.

**Magnatomicflux** · August-13-11, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by Patrick

Just how much does having a depression-level economy figure into these types of crime statistics? Is it the main culprit?

I wouldn't think so, not the main culprit anyways. Here's proof from a city who no matter what, has historically been in the same economic boat as Detroit:

http://www.windsorstar.com/news/Murd...069/story.html

What's your problem? Hand guns. They serve absolutly no other purpose than detroying Humans. You can have them here, but they're locked up tighter than a ticks ass.

lilpup · August-13-11, 10:16 PM

The superior social services are in Canada's favor, too. Seemingly little stuff like having cradle to grave access to healthcare professionals can make a difference.

**Autoracks** · August-13-11, 10:18 PM

I suppose what if anything that can be taken from this is violence in the city is a chronic condition. News like you see today about 15 shootings in a day. The numbers fluctuate year to year but not that much. So it was pretty much the same last year and a little worse the year before. Every year the news is the same and in similar servings.

**LeannaM** · August-13-11, 10:24 PM

It's kind of naive to assume that banning guns means there are no guns. There's a pretty large black market in this country, from my understanding. Most felons could probably get a gun if they knew where to look.

Criminals get guns one way or another. They don't care about laws.

**detroitsgwenivere** · August-13-11, 10:50 PM

I hear that there's extensive conversation going on in London about the people there buying record numbers of Louisville sluggers from the states, because they can't legally protect themselves with anything more effective. Just sayin....

**John** · August-13-11, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by lilpup

stay away from gangs, stay away from drugs, stay away from the clubs the thugs frequent

it's warfare, not random

Sorry to ruin your theory, but at at least one of the victims was indeed random. He was robbed & shot while changing a flat tire on Greenfield south of W. Outer Drive.

**firstandten** · August-13-11, 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by Magnatomicflux

I wouldn't think so, not the main culprit anyways. Here's proof from a city who no matter what, has historically been in the same economic boat as Detroit:

http://www.windsorstar.com/news/Murd...069/story.html

What's your problem? Hand guns. They serve absolutly no other purpose than detroying Humans. You can have them here, but they're locked up tighter than a ticks ass.

Same economics but very different demographics and culture

**LeannaM** · August-14-11, 12:37 AM

Apparently the sales of some bats from Amazon went up 5000%.

I don't recommend guns for everyone, but probably most sane people who have them use them safely. We have six in our house, but they're locked up. My Dad is a hunter. My area has at least as many guns as people, but I can think of maybe 3 murders in this county in my 21 years of life so far. Meth is a problem, but violent crime is not.

If an area has crime, probably especially gang crime, in the first place, which most cities do, adding guns does make it worse I'm sure. If an area has low crime, guns probably won't make a lot of difference. So, in theory, the best thing to do is to take the guns away from the criminals and the gang members. Unfortunately, in this country, that generally does not work. People get guns regardless. I'm not against gun laws, but I think a gun ban would just put guns in the hands of criminals and everybody else would be helpless.

If someone is threatening your life, you can call the police, but they can't always help you. In fact, in Britain a lot of the police aren't armed either. I live in a rural area, but even in cities, with the budgets being cut, you can't always depend on the police to get there quickly.

**Django** · August-14-11, 01:27 AM

We had two kids killed down the block at the local dope house about a week ago. Frederick and McDougall. One was 16 yrs old. Both shot in the face. Not sure but most likley I knew them. Not a word about it in the news. It was straight up robbery.

More drug war fallout.

**Magnatomicflux** · August-14-11, 03:20 AM

I don't disagree with you, LeannaM. I wasn't suggesting an outright ban on guns, just gun control. I personally don't have a problem with them, and I know the vast majority are responsible owners. It's just that you shouldn't be able to go to an expo and buy an automatic weapon of any kind. Who NEEDS a machine gun or sub-machine gun? Nobody does.
My father in law also has 4 or 5 guns locked up in the house, but they're all shot guns and rifles. There's tons of hand gun owners in Windsor, but I see it as pointless with these rules:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possess...sition_Licence

I'll agree that Canada should be a little more liberal and trusting of its citizens when it comes to guns. Our history with guns goes back just as far and deep as yours...... but the numbers speak for themselves.

In Canada, the firearm homicide rate for 2003 was 0.50 per 100,000.
In the US, the firearm homicide rate for 2003 was 10.3 per 100,000.

This article I found was pretty eye opening http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/...S/GUNSTAT.html

Here's a quick quote:

"The total population for the United States for 2003 was 290.8 million while the combined population for the other 22 countries was 563.5 million. There were 29,771 firearm deaths in the US and 7,653 firearm deaths in the 22 other countries. Of all the firearm deaths in these 23 high-income countries in 2003, 80% occurred in the US."

lilpup · August-14-11, 04:06 AM

Originally Posted by John

Sorry to ruin your theory, but at at least one of the victims was indeed random. He was robbed & shot while changing a flat tire on Greenfield south of W. Outer Drive.

1 out of 16 [[and more in the long view) isn't enough of a deviation to entirely dismiss a theory. The vast majority of gunplay and homicide in the city isn't random.

**Meddle** · August-14-11, 05:09 AM

Originally Posted by Mind field

There has to be a paradigm shift in the DPD with a zero tolerance for all crimes and a court and justice system that shows no mercy or lenience.

And who will pay for all the prisons?

**Zacha341** · August-14-11, 06:22 AM

Hey, it could have been a factor. That is for certain.

Originally Posted by Lowell

Full moon.

**SWMAP** · August-14-11, 06:33 AM

A poster points out that a reason that Windsor, with the same economic issues as Detroit has no comparable level of violence might be the universality of health benefits. Yet, the London rooters have similar benefits AND free or heavily- subsidized housing. Still they rioted. Now government is considering canceling the housing benefit for anyone involved in future violence - and their families would be kicked out too.
I think Windsor is just a small town where everybody knows each other. If you get into trouble people shame you. Here, in a big city - violence and even anarchy is a badge of honor. The rioters of 1967 have been excused by history: it was tough for them and so we have decided that they were acting reasonably and society was to blame. But people know in their hearts who ruined the City. That riot destroyed neighborhoods and an economy that never came back. I do think London will come back - but Detroit wasn't one of the financial capitals of the world.

**Pam** · August-14-11, 07:31 AM

Also I bet there is some drug gang warring going on in the community. In the past huge spikes in the murder rate was usually caused by that, for I believe there are few random events.

That possibility was mentioned in this thread:

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...this-on-DRUDGE

**JBMcB** · August-14-11, 07:34 AM

Make this change:

Found with a small amount of drugs, obviously for personal use - probation plus mandatory drug counseling

Convicted of a violent crime - one year minimum, no parole. Violent crime in the course of another crime [[robbery) or using a deadly weapon - five year minimum, no parole.

Also, Detroit's new prison should be in Copper Harbor. Good luck keeping in touch with your gang-banger friends up there.

**RaumVogel** · August-14-11, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

And who will pay for all the prisons?

Good Q:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarce..._United_States

Buy American · August-14-11, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

And who will pay for all the prisons?

I would definitely vote on a tax increase specifically designated for new prisons. We need them. They don't have to be elaborate either....follow the lead of the Sheriff in Arizona...tent city, pink shorts, bologna sandwiches, no TV, no ability to get a free college education...criminals will get the idea quickly.

**Django** · August-14-11, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by RaumVogel

Good Q:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarce..._United_States

WORD Raum.

**401don** · August-14-11, 08:17 AM

I think it's only common sense that as those with better education, higher moral standards, etc. continue to migrate to the burbs the decay of the city will continue as it has for the past 40 years. The per capita homocide rate will naturally increase because of the lack of morals of those remaining. It's a miracle it's not a lot higher than it is when you consider the city lost 3-400,000 of its better citizens in such a short time period.