DPS EFM Roberts Imposess Sweeping 10% Wage Reduction ETC.

[Novine]

"80% of working Americans make just over $19,000 a year before taxes. Just remember that."

Care to source that? This would appear to indicate otherwise:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persona...e_distribution

What's pathetic about this discussion is that people like lilpup attack teachers and others in government as the source of their pain. If you're underpaid and undercompensated by your employer, or in your profession, how is that the fault of DetroitTeacher and English and others who work in the education profession? They're not the ones taking advantage of you. When a company like Apple is sitting on $78 billion in cash and a corporation like GE pays no corporate income taxes, the idea that there's not enough money in this country to ensure that people are paid and compensated fairly is ridiculous on its face. But the rich and powerful are laughing at the rest of us when they see how easily they can get us attacking each other and doing are best to knock each other further down the income ladder. Quit being such a rube and a patsy and allowing yourself to be played that way.

[runnerXT]

I should have said an average of $19,000 a year

you see in your example of the rich and such to the majority of americans a teacher's salary is rich in comparison.

I am not advocating a reduction in teacher pay or benefits. All I am saying is remember, teachers have healthcare, a pension, sick days and very decent pay especially in comparison to the bottom 80% of working Americans. And those 80% are paying taxes towards those teacher salaries. It is a tough battle to sell people who have less to fork over more to the people who have more. It's like the opposite of Robin Hood.

[Novine]

Fair point. But explain why people are attacking teachers over their pay and benefits as if teachers took that away from other working people? If teachers get their pay and benefits cut, it doesn't help those who don't have it get it back.

You notice that Rick Snyder isn't pushing to cut wages and benefits of public employees so the average taxpayer can get a reduction in the taxes you pay. The opposite is happening. Your taxes are going up and he's cutting pay and benefits for public employees so that he can cut taxes for businesses. He believes that this tax cut will trickle down to all of us in increased pay and benefits. I'm not going to hold my breath to hear about how private sector pay and benefits surged thanks to the Snyder tax cut for businesses.

[DetroitTeacher]

I am in NO WAY in the top 20% of the payscale of most Americans! I live paycheck to paycheck, just like everyone else. I pay into my pension [[and I pay a lot), I pay for my healthcare. I use my sick days when I am sick and I work in an environment where the people I am around each day, hugging on me and hacking all over me [[usually with something serious), make me sick. I don't live above my means [[I own a house...well I pay the bank to live here... and drive a free truck from my dad, those are my assets and I owe more on my house than what it's worth right now) I worked hard, going to school and studying...working crap jobs to afford my education [[and am paying on loans until the day I die)...and I deserve what I get! I earned it through my hard work. I'm doing a job that not too many people are cut out for and few make it past the first 5 years! Burnout is high, morale is low and we get shit on by the general populus. We take the blame for everything that has gone wrong in the last zillion years in education, society, economy, politics...you name it, we are blamed for it.

Runner, you are more than welcome to go to school and become a teacher and be part of the group who is living so high on the hog [[did I mention I had to borrow money from my parents to pay for a major plumbing issue at my house because I don't have 2400 bucks laying around?) You, too, can be part of the 20% at the top. No one is stopping you. Your destiny is in your hands. If you need scholarship info or help with financial aid, please contact me...in helping my students find money for college, I am pretty much an expert. Unfortunately, no one explained to me the whole scholarship and grant programs when I was in school and I ended up taking loans that equal my mortgage...

As far as taxes go, I pay taxes and I pay plenty in taxes. I am paying part of my own damned salary!

I should have said an average of $19,000 a year

you see in your example of the rich and such to the majority of americans a teacher's salary is rich in comparison.

I am not advocating a reduction in teacher pay or benefits. All I am saying is remember, teachers have healthcare, a pension, sick days and very decent pay especially in comparison to the bottom 80% of working Americans. And those 80% are paying taxes towards those teacher salaries. It is a tough battle to sell people who have less to fork over more to the people who have more. It's like the opposite of Robin Hood.

[professorscott]

This is a sad situation all ways around. The essential problem, as I see it - and I'm not in any way casting blame here, just making an observation - is that Detroit has done such an overall God-awful job of educating children over at least the past quarter century that families who could quit the system have, in massive numbers. This, and the way the state funding formula works, have drained the system of funds, while at the same time the district is obligated to its retirees from back when there were a great many more students [[and teachers, bus drivers, janitors and so forth).

Now, if you were Mr. Bobb, or you are Mr. Roberts, what really can be done? The money simply doesn't exist to run the district as it ought to be run, unless you completely discard the entire existing structure and start over, somehow. And my nose tells me that nobody in Detroit has any faith in something like that going very well; but how on earth is anything resembling the status quo an option?

The status quo ante Mr. Roberts is: [[1) Overall, the education is terrible; [[2) the physical plant is in awful shape from decades of "deferred maintenance"; [[3) the tax base has fallen through the floor; [[4) the number of students is at its lowest point in generations and still falling, and rapidly so.

The horror is, a 10% pay cut for everybody, nasty as that is, reminds one of the Dutch boy with his finger in the dike. Plugs a hole for a few minutes and fixes nothing. What can actually be done here? Anyone have any ideas? [[Note: Please don't prattle on about "cutting fraud and waste". The store is on fire, and if one of the employees meantime is stealing the $20 bills out of the register, let's just ignore him for the moment. He's a problem but he's not the problem.)

[DetroitTeacher]

Stop paying high priced consultants to come in and tell us how to fix it, for a start. No one has had a viable answer to the knee deep in chit question of how to right size DPS.

We also need to get parents involved in their chid's education and make it a priority in the home, like we had when DPS was a great system. Without parents buying into their kid's education, nothing will work. Cass, Renaissance, King, CMA all work and have great results because the parents are involved [[for the majority of the kids) and take a vested interest in their child's education and demand excellence from the kid. I don't see that a lot where I am.

[English]

Well, 15 years ago I was a temp secretary working for Kelly Services. So it's not as if I've always been a teacher.

It's funny. When I became a teacher 12 years ago this month, people told me I was an idiot for going to college 4 years, paying $160 for certification exams, and landing in a profession that only paid $32,000 per year. I thought I was doing great because teacher compensation in Michigan was pretty decent in my view. When I graduated from FAMU in 1999, no first year public school teacher in the entire state of Florida made over $30K. The highest paid new teachers that fall taught in the Palm Beach Schools for $28,000 per year. I told my Florida friends that secretaries made more than that in Michigan.

I also clearly remember my little 21 year old self quipping to my arrogant Michigan college educated friends that I was earning $32K for 39 weeks of work, that I had great benefits, and that I'd just set up a 403B for myself... sassy little me. No, I didn't want to be an engineer, a banker, or a bean counter. I was SO thrilled and excited to finally be a teacher!

But oh, how people laughed! Friends who went to college and studied just about anything else told me I was wasting my life. "I'm starting at $55K!" "I have [[laundry list of corporate perks)!" "My boyfriend makes TWICE as much as you on the assembly line of one of the suppliers! He didn't even GO to college!" "I only make $20K, but I have HALF the stress that you do." "Oh, can't stay out late? Go and run, take care of the kiddies... I know you've got to check their papers/chaperone that dance/sponsor that club!" Oh, the jokes, chuckles, and sneers!

I didn't care. I had my '93 Escort and my thrift-store "teacher blazers." I had ideas and plans and ambitions to be the best teacher I could be. I was so excited to begin until I taught summer school, and then spent the 1999 DPS strike decorating my classroom and getting everything all set.

During the entire time I taught in DPS, my choice of profession was denigrated, over and over again. After a while, I got used to it and tuned people out. When I lost my DPS job after 6 years of hard, satisfying work with kids and teens [[and a TON of administrative frustration), some folks had an "I told you so" attitude. A few were pretty nasty.

I'm not sure when teacher pay and compensation began to be envied by anyone. This is a relatively recent development, because I was still all kinds of an idiot who didn't like money in the eyes of some of my ex-friends and peers as recently as 2005-2006. Then I blinked, the economy crashed in 2008, and people started marching the pitchforks towards their kid's teacher.

I don't know. I've never been interested in getting rich at the expense of quality of life and potentially making a long-term contribution to society. I'm not interested in just working to eat, either. Others' mileage may vary. I love school. I love working with young people. I realized the other day that most people see large groups of youngsters, especially young black and brown teens, as automatic problems... as stress-inducing. I see large groups of young people and I get lifted. Inspired. I smile -- they have their entire lives ahead of them. They are the epitome of possibility. It's amazing and humbling because you know that something you say to them today might be something they carry with them for their entire lives.

The compensation structure of education also worked well for me. Health insurance is a top priority for me, since I have several chronic conditions. I have only been without insurance for a couple of months in 1999, and another couple last year. It was VERY scary. It took me months to finish paying off my hospital bills from the summer of 2010.

Thanks to the advice of veteran teachers [[and my grandparents), I've always kept some savings. In addition to the Michigan educators' pension and Social Security, the veteran teachers told me over and over again to set up a 403B and a Roth IRA... to hire a financial planner... to save six months' worth of income... to purchase disability and life insurance. I am now heading toward my mid-30s and I am shocked at the number of people who didn't prioritize such things in their early 20s. I just remember all the ridicule and heat I dealt with about stupid and superficial things like clothes and cars and vacations. Some of the same people who want to carve up teachers on a platter are those who lived it up 10-15 years ago.

Having said this, I believe that teacher compensation and benefits will be cut to the bone just like everything else. It's inevitable unless wages improve, and at this stage of the capitalism game, it's highly unlikely that they will.

[[College and university faculty, we're next. Our public school counterparts in most states have already felt the pain that we'll share in soon.)

[DetroitTeacher]

English: Like you, I get inspired by groups of kids [[high school age...not those lil ones...ick). I watch fear rise in people who look like me [[think plucked chicken) when they come across a group of brown skinned kids. I relish in seeing groups of kids. I engage them, I talk to them. I laugh with them [[mostly at the plucked chickens who are afraid). I see the positive in the kids.

I started teaching in my early 30s [[very early). I had a kid to feed and clothe so I didn't think about a pension or TDA or any type of savings. I was barely making it, at that point. People also laughed at me for choosing what i chose as a profession. I watched as my same age counterparts took lavish vacations, went out to the local watering hole after work, spent weekends doing nothing. I, on the other hand, was left out because I was: grading papers, taking classes, dealing with my own offspring, working a 2nd job [[in those early years) to pay for the "extras" for my own kid, shopping for school supplies for my students, getting my lessons ready, searching the internet for "modifications and extras" for the kids who just didn't get it like the other kids, attending school functions [[for both my own kid and my kids at work), attending funerals of kids I didn't want to bury, and a host of other things that kept me from doing what my same age peers were doing. Do I regret my decision...HELL NO!

I wouldn't trade what I've had these last 15 years for anything [[I'd trade the funerals for students, though). I am more alive now than my same age counterparts. I have an appreciation for things that they just don't understand. They are bored with their jobs/careers. I am invigorated by mine. I come alive when I talk about my classes and my kids. Just tonight my mom commented that I must really love what I do because I talk about it with such enthusiasm. I didn't know I came across that way to others. I'm glad I do because if I come across that way to other adults, I know I must come across as loving what I do to the kids! If I love what I do, I think that they just might love what I am doing [[teaching them whatever), too.

[English]

This is a sad situation all ways around. The essential problem, as I see it - and I'm not in any way casting blame here, just making an observation - is that Detroit has done such an overall God-awful job of educating children over at least the past quarter century that families who could quit the system have, in massive numbers. This, and the way the state funding formula works, have drained the system of funds, while at the same time the district is obligated to its retirees from back when there were a great many more students [[and teachers, bus drivers, janitors and so forth).

Now, if you were Mr. Bobb, or you are Mr. Roberts, what really can be done? The money simply doesn't exist to run the district as it ought to be run, unless you completely discard the entire existing structure and start over, somehow. And my nose tells me that nobody in Detroit has any faith in something like that going very well; but how on earth is anything resembling the status quo an option?

The status quo ante Mr. Roberts is: [[1) Overall, the education is terrible; [[2) the physical plant is in awful shape from decades of "deferred maintenance"; [[3) the tax base has fallen through the floor; [[4) the number of students is at its lowest point in generations and still falling, and rapidly so.

The horror is, a 10% pay cut for everybody, nasty as that is, reminds one of the Dutch boy with his finger in the dike. Plugs a hole for a few minutes and fixes nothing. What can actually be done here? Anyone have any ideas? [[Note: Please don't prattle on about "cutting fraud and waste". The store is on fire, and if one of the employees meantime is stealing the $20 bills out of the register, let's just ignore him for the moment. He's a problem but he's not the problem.)

Good summary of the problem. We have talked about this quite a bit on great threads. We know what works. We just don't have the will or the ability to scale it up yet.

Next year, I hope to attend the first conference of this center:

http://www.scalingupcenter.org/index.aspx

I'm intrigued by the work of the National Center on Scaling Up Effective Schools. I am the product of effective Detroit Public Schools education, and I was an effective Detroit Public Schools educator. However, the conditions under which I was educated and taught others were very highly controlled. Comparable contexts existed in most urban districts long before KIPP and the Harlem Children's Zone received national media attention. The issue is how to scale up these effective schools so that every kid is receiving the same kind of education that kids at Cass, Renaissance, and DSA get. Right now, no one has managed to do it anywhere in the United States.

[English]

English: Like you, I get inspired by groups of kids [[high school age...not those lil ones...ick). I watch fear rise in people who look like me [[think plucked chicken) when they come across a group of brown skinned kids. I relish in seeing groups of kids. I engage them, I talk to them. I laugh with them [[mostly at the plucked chickens who are afraid). I see the positive in the kids.

I started teaching in my early 30s [[very early). I had a kid to feed and clothe so I didn't think about a pension or TDA or any type of savings. I was barely making it, at that point. People also laughed at me for choosing what i chose as a profession. I watched as my same age counterparts took lavish vacations, went out to the local watering hole after work, spent weekends doing nothing. I, on the other hand, was left out because I was: grading papers, taking classes, dealing with my own offspring, working a 2nd job [[in those early years) to pay for the "extras" for my own kid, shopping for school supplies for my students, getting my lessons ready, searching the internet for "modifications and extras" for the kids who just didn't get it like the other kids, attending school functions [[for both my own kid and my kids at work), attending funerals of kids I didn't want to bury, and a host of other things that kept me from doing what my same age peers were doing. Do I regret my decision...HELL NO!

I wouldn't trade what I've had these last 15 years for anything [[I'd trade the funerals for students, though). I am more alive now than my same age counterparts. I have an appreciation for things that they just don't understand. They are bored with their jobs/careers. I am invigorated by mine. I come alive when I talk about my classes and my kids. Just tonight my mom commented that I must really love what I do because I talk about it with such enthusiasm. I didn't know I came across that way to others. I'm glad I do because if I come across that way to other adults, I know I must come across as loving what I do to the kids! If I love what I do, I think that they just might love what I am doing [[teaching them whatever), too.

DT, you are awesome. Your enthusiasm is evident on these boards, and has been for years. I am so very sorry that you guys are getting the brunt of our teetering society's fears, anxieties, and frustrations. Teachers ask for so little in return for what they give -- there is definitely a "teacher personality," because most of those whom I work with get great personal satisfaction out of the job they do, but don't think they're all that.

I just wish that we could help you more. You should be supported, not denigrated and ridiculed. I have long wondered about people's crappy attitudes towards education, teachers, and teaching, even before we were suddenly paid too much. These days, I assume that some people had a horrible time at school, hated their teachers or had ineffective teachers, and are just projecting.

I left the classroom hoping to help teachers, but those of us on the college and university level seem just as powerless as K-12. I just pray our society figures out what we're going to do next, because it seems as if we're starting to head off a cliff.

[DetroitTeacher]

What people can do is not lose hope for the kids. WE, as a society, need to see the good in these kids. We need to have faith in them. We need to believe in them and we need to hold high our expectations for these kids. Keep educating teachers! We need more of us who really do care in the classrooms. Stress to your students that the kids come first! We can't do anything to change the opinions of people who loathe us [[maybe they are jealous we get to hang out all day with such awesome kids??) and think we are overpaid and underworked. We can't do anything to change the minds of those who think we got into this for the cash cow or the cushy vacations [[I haven't seen either, in all of my 15 years...although if someone finds said cash cow, could someone point it in my direction?). I am giving up on trying to exlplain myself to ignorant adults. I have enough issues to deal with in trying to explain to the kids WHY we are learning what we are learning [[nope, has nothing to do with the test...although the skills I show you will come in handy on that darned test) and WHY education is important [[so you won't be working at 2 big box retailers and mad at the world because teachers make so much money and it's coming out of your taxes). I am too busy making my class a positive environment for my kids...no negativity allowed.

Teachers [[the good ones who care) do have a different type of personality that is specific to us...we really don't think we are all that and begin to wonder why everyone else doesn't see what we see in our kids.

DT, you are awesome. Your enthusiasm is evident on these boards, and has been for years. I am so very sorry that you guys are getting the brunt of our teetering society's fears, anxieties, and frustrations. Teachers ask for so little in return for what they give -- there is definitely a "teacher personality," because most of those whom I work with get great personal satisfaction out of the job they do, but don't think they're all that.

I just wish that we could help you more. You should be supported, not denigrated and ridiculed. I have long wondered about people's crappy attitudes towards education, teachers, and teaching, even before we were suddenly paid too much. These days, I assume that some people had a horrible time at school, hated their teachers or had ineffective teachers, and are just projecting.

I left the classroom hoping to help teachers, but those of us on the college and university level seem just as powerless as K-12. I just pray our society figures out what we're going to do next, because it seems as if we're starting to head off a cliff.

[stromberg2]

Bless you, DT and English!

Stromberg2

[Patrick]

Well, 15 years ago I was a temp secretary working for Kelly Services. So it's
not as if I've always been a teacher.

It's funny. When I became a
teacher 12 years ago this month, people told me I was an idiot for going to
college 4 years, paying $160 for certification exams, and landing in a
profession that only paid $32,000 per year. I thought I was doing great because
teacher compensation in Michigan was pretty decent in my view. When I graduated
from FAMU in 1999, no first year public school teacher in the entire state of
Florida made over $30K. The highest paid new teachers that fall taught in the
Palm Beach Schools for $28,000 per year. I told my Florida friends that
secretaries made more than that in Michigan.

I also clearly
remember my little 21 year old self quipping to my arrogant Michigan college
educated friends that I was earning $32K for 39 weeks of work, that I had great
benefits, and that I'd just set up a 403B for myself... sassy little me.
No, I didn't want to be an engineer, a banker, or a bean counter. I was SO
thrilled and excited to finally be a teacher!

But oh, how people laughed!
Friends who went to college and studied just about anything else told me I was
wasting my life. "I'm starting at $55K!" "I have [[laundry list of corporate
perks)!" "My boyfriend makes TWICE as much as you on the assembly line of one
of the suppliers! He didn't even GO to college!" "I only make $20K, but I have
HALF the stress that you do." "Oh, can't stay out late? Go and run, take care
of the kiddies... I know you've got to check their papers/chaperone that
dance/sponsor that club!" Oh, the jokes, chuckles, and sneers!

I didn't
care. I had my '93 Escort and my thrift-store "teacher blazers." I had ideas
and plans and ambitions to be the best teacher I could be. I was so excited to
begin until I taught summer school, and then spent the 1999 DPS strike
decorating my classroom and getting everything all set.

During the entire
time I taught in DPS, my choice of profession was denigrated, over and over
again. After a while, I got used to it and tuned people out. When I lost my
DPS job after 6 years of hard, satisfying work with kids and teens [[and a TON of
administrative frustration), some folks had an "I told you so" attitude. A few
were pretty nasty.

I'm not sure when teacher pay and compensation began
to be envied by anyone. This is a relatively recent development, because I was
still all kinds of an idiot who didn't like money in the eyes of some of my
ex-friends and peers as recently as 2005-2006. Then I blinked, the economy
crashed in 2008, and people started marching the pitchforks towards their kid's
teacher.

I don't know. I've never been interested in getting rich at the
expense of quality of life and potentially making a long-term contribution to
society. I'm not interested in just working to eat, either. Others' mileage
may vary. I love school. I love working with young people. I realized the
other day that most people see large groups of youngsters, especially young
black and brown teens, as automatic problems... as stress-inducing. I see large
groups of young people and I get lifted. Inspired. I smile -- they have their
entire lives ahead of them. They are the epitome of possibility. It's amazing
and humbling because you know that something you say to them today might be
something they carry with them for their entire lives.

The compensation
structure of education also worked well for me. Health insurance is a top
priority for me, since I have several chronic conditions. I have only been
without insurance for a couple of months in 1999, and another couple last year.
It was VERY scary. It took me months to finish paying off my hospital bills
from the summer of 2010.

Thanks to the advice of veteran teachers [[and
my grandparents), I've always kept some savings. In addition to the Michigan
educators' pension and Social Security, the veteran teachers told me over and
over again to set up a 403B and a Roth IRA... to hire a financial planner... to
save six months' worth of income... to purchase disability and life insurance.
I am now heading toward my mid-30s and I am shocked at the number of people who
didn't prioritize such things in their early 20s. I just remember all the
ridicule and heat I dealt with about stupid and superficial things like clothes
and cars and vacations. Some of the same people who want to carve up teachers
on a platter are those who lived it up 10-15 years ago.

Having said
this, I believe that teacher compensation and benefits will be cut to the bone
just like everything else. It's inevitable unless wages improve, and at this
stage of the capitalism game, it's highly unlikely that they
will.

[[College and university faculty, we're next. Our public school
counterparts in most states have already felt the pain that we'll share in
soon.)

Great story...and where are all those folks who earned $70K a year bolting fenders onto SUVs nowadays?

[English]

^ Patrick, I would tend to agree... but I get the feeling that all of us are in trouble. Unless one is a CEO, I think that in 10-15 years, we'll all be making around $20K per year unless something happens. We are entering a period of austerity for all save the wealthiest.

[English]

And thanks, stromberg2. I'm starting to realize [[especially with the debacle going on down in DC) that we are all in this together. I have a feeling that this economic downturn isn't going to end up very well for most of us. I am passionate about teachers and teaching, but every single sector in our society and economy seems under siege these days...

[313hero]

I would not have a prob with this if the teachers hadnt already took a cut. So if you are teacher and been teaching for a while you will make 20-25% less then when you started. Thats not right. How are we going to attract good teachers pulling this kind of crap. All we will have left is the teachers who cant do nothing else.We need more professionals teaching and this is not going to help

[DetroitTeacher]

i agree. Teachers are going to flee to other states that are paying more. I would do that, if I am really forced and have no other choice. I really have faith in my kids and enjoy what I do, where I do it [[not all the BS but I love the kids). I can do something else with my life but I wouldn't enjoy it as much and I'd be pitifully unhappy with another career. DPS can't attract anyone at all because of what they are currently doing to us now. I've talked to new teachers/about to become new teachers and they refuse to even look at DPS because of all the crap going on. Sad.

I would not have a prob with this if the teachers hadnt already took a cut. So if you are teacher and been teaching for a while you will make 20-25% less then when you started. Thats not right. How are we going to attract good teachers pulling this kind of crap. All we will have left is the teachers who cant do nothing else.We need more professionals teaching and this is not going to help

[wvernon]

Teachers, police and firemen can flee anywhere they want. Just like workers in private industry have for years. But you're kidding yourself if you think the positions won't be filled as quick as it takes to fill the void when removing your finger from a glass of water. The boss would love for you to leave, plenty of folks have been trained and can't get a gig. And they'll work cheap, that's the reality.

[English]

Who's denying reality? People will work for peanuts, across the board, these days. Only the highly skilled health professions are exempt, and they're next.

[English]

And soon enough, they will expect us all to work for nothing. You will be greedy for wanting a starting salary of $20K, because someone else will be willing to do your job for free. Teacher salaries are the very least of it. The private sector has been razed to the ground and we're busily setting up explosives around the public one as well. Make no mistake, they will explode it, too, and lap up any profits they can find.

And a new feudal age will begin. The difference is this time, we're in the information age. The last time most human beings worked as peons, lots of people were actually necessary to till the fields, power the smitheries, build edifices, and serve the elites. Nature culled the population due to a lack of knowledge about medicine. There were few of our present-day machines.

Do people really think it will be the same this time? That we'll somehow prefer a new age of austerity? And, when darkness falls, do they think they will be exempt? I'm not foolish enough to believe that I will be. After all, I don't know too many billionaires.

I also wish that people would talk about the real issues, namely, the rank malfeasance that went on from the 1970s to the early 2000s. The Greatest Generation built a fine nation, and their kids and grandkids ran it into the ditch. Future historians will look at us and shake their heads.

[Patrick]

The rest of the world is catching up with us as we are spoon-fed this ideology about a knowledge-based society where it is "right" to be an engineer or a nurse or even an IT specialist BUT anything else is shunned and outsourced.

[eastsidechris]

I'm late to the thread [[was out of town when the cuts were announced), but wanted to add one thing for the folks who say that teachers are overpaid:
The pay scale at DPS tops out at 10 years. So other than the occasional raise that is negotiated by new contracts--we were supposed to get a 1% raise this year; it would be our first pay increase in the past few years, but not sure if that's still the plan--a teacher in Detroit who has taught 10 years and has spent $$$ obtaining a Masters will top out around $72,000. Or to put that in layman's terms, a person who starts teaching at DPS directly out of college at 22 years of age will work their way up each year, starting at probably $35,000, until the age of 32, where he/she will make $72,000 or so [[thanks to a 10 year pay bump and assuming he she has earned a Masters in the first 10 years)...and then will look forward to staying around $72,000 until he/she retires in another 20-30 years. Are we still overpaid?

[lilpup]

Yes. $72k is a shitload of money, which you obviously don't realize.

[DetroitTeacher]

With all of the borrowing and freezes, we don't really make 72 grand a year. We WOULD make that if things were on target, which they are not. That is ONLY if one has a Master's degree [[I have 3). My student loans cost as much as my mortgage [[well over a grand a month), I still have to pay for classes to keep my certification, and with benefits, MIP, TDA, Union Dues, taxes, and insurance and such, I don't bring home even HALF of my salary [[which isn't 72 grand). I have not seen a rasie in years [[I have seen a decrease in my pay). However, DTE has increased rates, my car insurance went up, food costs have risen...etc. I know this is the same for everyone but yet, I am being blamed for the downturn in society? Teachers have nothing to do with the current state of affairs. If unionized people don't fight to keep some semblance of their pay/benefits then ALL of the other folks in other professions will also get cuts from their pay. Slashing starts somewhere and trickles down to everyone else. The only folks who aren't getting slashed are those who are making all the rules.

I'm late to the thread [[was out of town when the cuts were announced), but wanted to add one thing for the folks who say that teachers are overpaid:
The pay scale at DPS tops out at 10 years. So other than the occasional raise that is negotiated by new contracts--we were supposed to get a 1% raise this year; it would be our first pay increase in the past few years, but not sure if that's still the plan--a teacher in Detroit who has taught 10 years and has spent $$$ obtaining a Masters will top out around $72,000. Or to put that in layman's terms, a person who starts teaching at DPS directly out of college at 22 years of age will work their way up each year, starting at probably $35,000, until the age of 32, where he/she will make $72,000 or so [[thanks to a 10 year pay bump and assuming he she has earned a Masters in the first 10 years)...and then will look forward to staying around $72,000 until he/she retires in another 20-30 years. Are we still overpaid?

[DetroitTeacher]

You sound a little bitter and jealous...anyone can go to school and become a teacher and make our wonderful salaries and have all of our great time off. Have at it! Stop whining about it and get out there and do what I do. Just in case you do, you'll have to work summer school AND night school your first 7 years or so, just to break even. Invest in a fan and a portable heater, schools aren't air conditioned and the heat rarely works the way it should. Be prepared for zero breaks [[laws be damned) because we don't get any. Lunch time is spent making copies and meeting with kids. Prep time is spent covering classes for teachers who aren't there [[or were sent someplace else by DPS and the kids have no regular teacher). Start shopping for school supplies now and stock up, you'll need them because DPS doesn't even provide an eraser, toilet paper, or garbage bags. You have to use the bathroom between classes, and only then because you can't leave a class unattended [[and God forbid someone is in there taking their sweet time because there is usually only one stall per floor...I use the student bathrooms).

It can be done...unless you do something about it, stop complaining about what I make and get what I have for yourself.

Yes. $72k is a shitload of money, which you obviously don't realize.